Why do you think the sabbath is always such a 'hot topic'?

[Memento Mori]

I believe legalism makes people "hot" today for the same reason it made St. Paul "hot" when sat down to write his letters.

 

[Zeena]

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

If the law as a whole (because that's what it's talking about) is fulfilled as you believe Paul to be saying, in as much that we no longer are obligated to keep it, then that means that adultery, murder, idol worship, taking God's name in vain, etc, is ok

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Galatians 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Galations 3:22-29
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[Zeena]

If the law as a whole (because that's what it's talking about) is fulfilled as you believe Paul to be saying, in as much that we no longer are obligated to keep it, then that means that adultery, murder, idol worship, taking God's name in vain, etc, is ok

We are no longer obligated to keep the law, Christ kept the law on our behalf because we are incapable of doing so;

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 8:2-4
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Hebrews 2:1-3
Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Galatians 5:1-6
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

From this Grace, flow works abounding in love for God.
It is because of His mercies we are not consumed

James 2:13
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

 

[seashale76]

'Why do you think the sabbath is always such a 'hot topic'?'


Because you keep making numerous threads about it?

 

[Zeena]

Actually, I (...and others who speak of the "exchanged life", or "surrendered life", or "abiding life", etc) believe in a lot of "unpopular" things....difference is, I get Christians from all backgrounds and denominations popping up all the time here saying that what I've said has spoken to them (...and often, in a life-changing way).

Now, why do you think that is?

Peace

Righteousness of God, Jesus Living His Holy Life in and through you by Grace, through faith on His Name!

EVEN the Faith of God in Christ, by Grace

Romans 3:19-28
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[ticker]

'Why do you think the sabbath is always such a 'hot topic'?'


Because you keep making numerous threads about it?

 

[Stryder06]

We are no longer obligated to keep the law, Christ kept the law on our behalf because we are incapable of doing so;

-snip-

Ok, so let's be consistent here. Is it ok to commit adultery now?

Christ did keep the law, and He said that if you love me keep my commandments. Just because we will fail at some time doesn't mean we have to fall all the time. The bible says that He is able to keep us from falling. If falling equals sin, then that means that He is able to keep us from sinning right?

Grace makes provision for us when we sin. It doesn't give us occasion to sin. If as Christians we were allowed to live our lives without keeping the law, how does that make us any different then those of the world who aren't keeping the law either?

 

[Frogster]

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Galatians 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Galations 3:22-29
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

We are no longer obligated to keep the law, Christ kept the law on our behalf because we are incapable of doing so;

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 8:2-4
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Hebrews 2:1-3
Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Galatians 5:1-6
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

From this Grace, flow works abounding in love for God.
It is because of His mercies we are not consumed

James 2:13
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

AAAAMEN!

 

[Frogster]

Romans 4;15 says the law works wrath.Why would anyone want to be under wrath?

 

[Frogster]

Ok, so let's be consistent here. Is it ok to commit adultery now?

Christ did keep the law, and He said that if you love me keep my commandments. Just because we will fail at some time doesn't mean we have to fall all the time. The bible says that He is able to keep us from falling. If falling equals sin, then that means that He is able to keep us from sinning right?

Grace makes provision for us when we sin. It doesn't give us occasion to sin. If as Christians we were allowed to live our lives without keeping the law, how does that make us any different then those of the world who aren't keeping the law either?

Thats just it,under law,the sin increases,hence we get the adulterer.Under grace,the deisre to be an adulterer ceases.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Thats just it,under law,the sin increases,hence we get the adulterer.Under grace,the deisre to be an adulterer ceases.

Coincidentally, I just got thru with that verse in my Romans thread

http://www.christianforums.com/t7364825/

5:20 Yet law came in/pareishlqen <3922> (5627) that should be increasing the offense yet where increasing the sin superabounds the grace

 

[squint]

Ok, so let's be consistent here. Is it ok to commit adultery now?

Christ did keep the law, and He said that if you love me keep my commandments. Just because we will fail at some time doesn't mean we have to fall all the time. The bible says that He is able to keep us from falling. If falling equals sin, then that means that He is able to keep us from sinning right?

Grace makes provision for us when we sin. It doesn't give us occasion to sin. If as Christians we were allowed to live our lives without keeping the law, how does that make us any different then those of the world who aren't keeping the law either?

Why is it that people who promote following the LAW do not SEE what the LAW shows us?

You and most of the others in this camp (I too believe the LAW stands) only take THE EXTERNAL ACTIONS of SIN to be SIN, when this is not the case whatsoever. Jesus advised us clearly that even THE THOUGHT of adultery was the same as COMMITTING the actions in the heart.

So, can you NOW MONITOR SIN, or do you still want to JUDGE IT based solely on external observations? It may appear to a HYPER LEGALIST such as myself that the THOUGHT is equal in measure to THE DEED, at least in GODS EYES. A person then who APPEARS to be 'legal on the outside' can in FACT be a raging violent SINNER on the INSIDE. The classic unclean on the inside of the cup kind of PHARISEE.

Do you seriously NOT SEE the connection of what the LAW does to SIN indwelling? There is a direct correlation to LAW and the reactions of indwelling sin. These reactions ARE NOT STOPPED by anyone merely OBSERVING TO AVOID THE EXTERNAL ACTIONS. Sin can be JUST AS FULLY RIPE in someones MIND and be JUST AS FULLY SIN and SINFUL as the 'EXTERNAL ACTIONS.'

The LAW SERVES to advise us of this hyper-dynamic REACTION between SIN and what the LAW says to SINs presence.

Just because you are not an EXTERNAL ADULTERER does not mean YOU ARE NOT ONE...and this correlation can be extrapolated on many fronts. People who even THINK of eating PORK or SHELLFISH have 'technically violated' the LAW already IN THEIR MINDS.

s

Oh, and people who WISH in their minds that they were not sitting in A PEW or doing their SATURDAY SERVICE have also VIOLATED THE SABBATH in their MINDS...

 

[Frogster]

Coincidentally, I just got thru with that verse in my Romans thread

http://www.christianforums.com/t7364825/

5:20 Yet law came in/pareishlqen <3922> (5627) that should be increasing the offense yet where increasing the sin superabounds the grace

Hi There.Yes,check out the Greek for wrath,it means agitation of soul,and more gross stuff too.

 

[Frogster]

Why is it that people who promote following the LAW do not SEE what the LAW shows us?

You and most of the others in this camp (I too believe the LAW stands) only take THE EXTERNAL ACTIONS of SIN to be SIN, when this is not the case whatsoever. Jesus advised us clearly that even THE THOUGHT of adultery was the same as COMMITTING the actions in the heart.

So, can you NOW MONITOR SIN, or do you still want to JUDGE IT based solely on external observations? It may appear to a HYPER LEGALIST such as myself that the THOUGHT is equal in measure to THE DEED, at least in GODS EYES. A person then who APPEARS to be 'legal on the outside' can in FACT be a raging violent SINNER on the INSIDE. The classic unclean on the inside of the cup kind of PHARISEE.

Do you seriously NOT SEE the connection of what the LAW does to SIN indwelling? There is a direct correlation to LAW and the reactions of indwelling sin. These reactions ARE NOT STOPPED by anyone merely OBSERVING TO AVOID THE EXTERNAL ACTIONS. Sin can be JUST AS FULLY RIPE in someones MIND and be JUST AS FULLY SIN and SINFUL as the 'EXTERNAL ACTIONS.'

The LAW SERVES to advise us of this hyper-dynamic REACTION between SIN and what the LAW says to SINs presence.

Just because you are not an EXTERNAL ADULTERER does not mean YOU ARE NOT ONE...and this correlation can be extrapolated on many fronts. People who even THINK of eating PORK or SHELLFISH have 'technically violated' the LAW already IN THEIR MINDS.

s

The adulterer within,will NEVER be changed by the law.It is a circumcision of the Spirit,not the LAW.

Romans 2:29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

Grace reigns!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi There.Yes,check out the Greek for wrath,it means agitation of soul,and more gross stuff too.

I also have a large study on that

Luke 21:23 "Woe yet to the-ones in belly having, and to those giving suck in those the Days. For shall be great necessity/anagkh <318> on the Land and Wrath in the People, this/toutw <5129>

Reve 6:16 And they are saying to the Mountains and to the rocks "be falling on us! and hide us! from Face of the One sitting upon the Throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb-kin" [Hosea 10:8/Luke 23:30]

 

[Frogster]

I also have a large study on that

Luke 21:23 "Woe yet to the-ones in belly having, and to those giving suck in those the Days. For shall be great necessity/anagkh <318> on the Land and Wrath in the People, this/toutw <5129>

Reve 6:16 And they are saying to the Mountains and to the rocks "be falling on us! and hide us! from Face of the One sitting upon the Throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb-kin" [Hosea 10:8/Luke 23:30]

Cool stuff!
Ok,here comes a trick question.

Do you think 7,was only preconversion,I dont.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Cool stuff!
Ok,here comes a trick question.

Do you think 7,was only preconversion,I dont.

not sure I understand

 

[squint]

The adulterer within,will NEVER be changed by the law.It is a circumcision of the Spirit,not the LAW.

The DEMANDS of the SPIRIT are not one whit LESS than the DEMANDS of the LAW. IF the SPIRIT demanded PERFECTION under the LAW, then the SPIRIT also demands PERFECTION under GRACE. Sinning THOUGHTS are excused NOT under either measure. The utter FOLLY of grace only adherents is that they think their SINS are off the hook. They are not and never will be.

And if you think GRACE provides an open hand to SIN you are sorely mistaken. Sin in BELIEVING MANKIND will RESIST GRACE even more vehemently than it will resist LAW...and this is EASILY proven out by simply observing the produce of GRACE believers. Such hypocritically AVOID judging their OWN SINS while they toss the majority of their fellow man to the FIRES OF HELL for the SAME SINS. How deep does that sickness run in christianity? That working TOO is a direct correlation of the reactions of SINS INDWELLING PRESENCE IN THE MIND becoming AROUSED by GRACE.

Such couldn't love their unsaved neighbors if their eternal life depended on it....it's a FACT. And will remain a fact that most people will NEVER get or even understand.

 

[Frogster]

not sure I understand

It is sort of an old debate( I think).Some say that when Paul was writing 7,he was talking about his experience under the law,before saved.Others say he experienced 7,after he was saved.The workings of the law,verse 7:8,etc.

 

[Frogster]

The DEMANDS of the SPIRIT are not one whit LESS than the DEMANDS of the LAW. IF the SPIRIT demanded PERFECTION under the LAW, then the SPIRIT also demands PERFECTION under GRACE. Sinning THOUGHTS are excused NOT under either measure. The utter FOLLY of grace only adherents is that they think their SINS are off the hook. They are not and never will be.

And if you think GRACE provides an open hand to SIN you are sorely mistaken.

That accusation is getting tired already.Show me where I ever said that.

Sin in BELIEVING MANKIND will RESIST GRACE even more vehemently than it will resist LAW...and this is EASILY proven out by simply observing the produce of GRACE believers. Such hypocritically AVOID judging their OWN SINS while they toss the majority of their fellow man to the FIRES OF HELL for the SAME SINS. How deep does that sickness run in christianity? That working TOO is a direct correlation of the reactions of SINS INDWELLING PRESENCE IN THE MIND becoming AROUSED by GRACE.

Such couldn't love their unsaved neighbors if their eternal life depended on it....it's a FACT. And will remain a fact that most people will NEVER get or even understand.