Why do you think the sabbath is always such a 'hot topic'?

[Redguard]

The Sabbath is a hot topic (to SDAs) because it's the only topic that exists for SDAs.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Sabbath is a hot topic (to SDAs) because it's the only topic that exists for SDAs.

Well, that and the Catholic church/Pope being in Revelation

http://www.christianforums.com/t6982465/
Is Sunday worship the mark of the beast?

 

[RND]

The Sabbath is a hot topic (to SDAs) because it's the only topic that exists for SDAs.

No, we SDA's have other topics we love to address. This thread however is asking why the sabbath is a "hot topic." Many folks that are non-SDA have expressed positive thoughts and made salient comments regarding the sabbath. I think it is unwise in a way to pidgeonhole this as only an Adventist topic.

 

[Redguard]

I believe that if an Adventist isn't talking about the Sabbath, then they're not really talking about anything else. Except, perhaps, vegetarianism or Ellen G. White or the 3 Angels Message or Sunday Worship being the Mark of the Beast.

Adventists would be perceived a lot more favourably if they held positions on a more diverse array of topics. But even the name of the denomination (Seventh-Day Adventists) is a bit of a pigeon hole in itself.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I believe that if an Adventist isn't talking about the Sabbath, then they're not really talking about anything else. Except, perhaps, vegetarianism or Ellen G. White or the 3 Angels Message or Sunday Worship being the Mark of the Beast.

Adventists would be perceived a lot more favourably if they held positions on a more diverse array of topics. But even the name of the denomination (Seventh-Day Adventists) is a bit of a pigeon hole in itself.

They would hold more credibility with me if not for their view of the Pope and Catholic church.

I found this site interesting on a google search:

Is the Pope the Anti-Christ? | Seventh-day Adventist to Roman Catholic | SDA2RC

The Adventist church LOVES to claim that the Pope is the Anti-Christ.

Conclusion:The Adventist Church has claimed for years that the Pope is the little horn of Daniel, the beast of Revelation Chapter 13, and even had titles that added up to 666, luckily the church is now backing off of this. The information I have presented here today, is extremely simple and only deals with a small slice of the problems in the Adventist teachings about prophecy and the anti-Christ. The fact is that there is no way the papacy can Biblically be made out to be the Anti-Christ! It is only another un-truth told by the Adventist Church.

Most protestant churches have been honest enough to abandon this long ago, Adventism will too someday, but for the time being they are still propagating these sad errors

 

[ticker]

Why do you think the sabbath is always such a 'hot topic'?

...quite simply, beacuse it disgraces the work of Jesus on the Cross, and maintains the day of rest didn't in fact come in the form of Christ Himself from His sacrifice.

I know you don't undertand this, but that's the answer.

Now...any other questions, or is this thread gonna continue for the express purpose of just trying to prove you're right (...perhaps, in order to somehow feel justified in your beliefs )?

 

[Giver]

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It's obvious that this isn't an answer to the question. It's not about follownig the old law. Admit it or not my brother, but we are both in the same boat when it comes to obedience to the law. The problem is how much of the law to obey.

Your quotation of Romans is taken out of context. Is it ok to eat the flesh of humans? If no than obviously Paul isn't saying that those who choose to eat mean are welcomed by God to eat whatever they want.
Is that so? Jesus told Peter all flesh was clean. Now Paul did not put limits on what we could or could not eat. You are making an assumption that some of the Old Law is still binding. Like I said you believe you are right, well you live by what you believe. God will honor that.

Established rules need not be reitterated, especially to those who already know them. Same goes with the sabbath. The day God made holy will remain Holy unless He says otherwise. The feasts which pointed to Christ and were fulfilled by Him need not to be kept, but some choose to do so. These sabbaths are the issue of controversy, not the seventh day sabbath. Had Paul and the other disciples openly been advocating disregard for the sabbath day the priests and rulers who wanted them dead would have had just cause against them. Just as they tried to call Jesus a lawbreaker, they would have done the same to His disciples were they advocating an unbiblical day of worship over the biblically established day of worship.
Now Paul had a lot of Christians put to death, and the Jews killed James and tried to kill Peter. Who is to say one of the charges they used against them was not observing the Sabbath. By the way the early church though so little of the Sabbath that they changed the day to Saturday.



If you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15)Now I will ask you a question about Commandments that Jesus gave us do you or your church keep and teach.

(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”


(Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses thatdo not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”

(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”

(1 John 3: 3 - 9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray; to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy; to lead a sinful life is to belong to the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

Here is the patience of the saints, here are they which keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus (Rev 14:12)

Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples (Isa 8:16)

But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlsting upon them that fear Him, and his righteousness unto children's children's; To such as keep His commandments to do them. (Psalms 103:17,18)

The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth in uprightness (Psalms 111:7,8)

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners nor sitteth in the seat of the scronful. But his delight is in the law of the Lord, an in His law doth he meditate day and night. (Psalms 1:1,2)

12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 712)


It seems clear that the scriptures place a huge amount of importance upon not just the law itself, but keeping it. So yeah, I don't have to ask Jesus if I'm right, the scriptures let me know that I am.
Only God can bring one to the true understanding of the Word of God.
Is it possible to throw out one text of scripture? To say we no longer have to keep the sabbath, without scriptural support, means you have to throw out one scripture in favor of the other. One scripture is all that I ask for to show that sunday replaced the sabbath of creations.

On a side not, does no one else find it interesting that the most controversial commandment is the one dealing with worship and that outlines God as creator and Master of all? Satan's campaign has always been to receive worship. He tried in heaven and failed, and now he is trying on earth, and it's sad and scarry to see how well he is succeding.

(Disclaimer: I am not saying that those who worship on sunday are worshiping the devil.)

Again I hear what you say, and have no problem of you trying to live the Old Sabbath Law, but you should take the advice of Paul.


(Romans 14:2-6) “People range from those who believe they may eat any sort of meat to those whose faith is so weak they dare not eat anything except vegetables. Meat-eaters must not despise the scrupulous. On the other hand, the scrupulous must not condemn those who feel free to eat anything they choose, since God has welcomed them. It is not for you to condemn someone else’s servant: whether he stands or falls it is his own master’s business; he will stand you may be sure, because the Lord has power to make him stand. If one man keeps certain days as holier than others, and another considers all days to be equally holy, each must be left free to hold his own opinion.”

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LLOJ now unsubscribes

 

[RND]

Again I hear what you say, and have no problem of you trying to live the Old Sabbath Law, but you should take the advice of Paul.

I thought we have already determined Paul wasn't discussing the sabbath. Paul was discussing the practice of ritual fast days as being of 'doubtful disputations' not the seventh-day sabbath.

Unless you think the Ten Commandments are of 'doubtful disputations'.

 

[Redguard]

Why do you think the sabbath is always such a 'hot topic'?

...quite simply, beacuse it disgraces the work of Jesus on the Cross, and maintains the day of rest didn't in fact come in the form of Christ Himself from His sacrifice.

I know you don't undertand this, but that's the answer.

An extension to this is that if efforts aren't made keep the Sabbath as a "hot topic", then the SDA Church will cease to exist. Why? Because the Sabbath is the foundation of the SDA church, as opposed to other churches that have Jesus as their foundation.

I know that there are many good and well-intentioned people in the SDA church. But I think that the church was founded on the wrong principles and they continue to have an affect on the way that the SDA church and many of its members conduct themselves today.

There's always this temptation to find a person who either worships on Sunday or eats pork, and then slap them across the face with a bible verse or question that's not intended to help them, but rather trip them up.

And I find that these questions appear quite often as threads here on CF, by SDAs, no less. (Why did the Sabbath change from Saturday to Sunday? Why do Christians eat pork? Who changed the Sabbath and under whose authority?)

It's not as if the questions are being asked genuinely... as if the person asking the question doesn't already know the answer or have an arsenal of trained responses and Bible verses. It's just to start up debate and give many SDAs this feeling of arrogance, which is wrong IMO.

 

[Giver]

I thought we have already determined Paul wasn't discussing the sabbath. Paul was discussing the practice of ritual fast days as being of 'doubtful disputations' not the seventh-day sabbath.

Unless you think the Ten Commandments are of 'doubtful disputations'.

Well you may believe Paul was not talking about the Sabbath, but I sure don’t believe that to be true. So again you do what you believe to be right. I will do what Jesus tells me is right. By the way we are both responsible for our own souls.

 

[RND]

Well you may believe Paul was not talking about the Sabbath, but I sure don’t believe that to be true.

If Paul was referring to the sabbath why didn't Paul mention the sabbath? Food/meat is mentioned over 20 times so I think we can see what Paul was referring to.

So again you do what you believe to be right.

Thanks!

I will do what Jesus tells me is right. By the way we are both responsible for our own souls.

We are indeed responsible for our own souls. Are you suggesting that because you do what Jesus told you was right that sabbath keepers are somehow doing the wrong thing?

I look at it this way. I'd rather keep the sabbath and be told later, "you didn't have to do that" than be asked "why did you transgress the sabbath and teach others to do so."

 

[Giver]

If Paul was referring to the sabbath why didn't Paul mention the sabbath? Food/meat is mentioned over 20 times so I think we can see what Paul was referring to.
Thanks! We are indeed responsible for our own souls. Are you suggesting that because you do what Jesus told you was right that sabbath keepers are somehow doing the wrong thing?

I look at it this way. I'd rather keep the sabbath and be told later, "you didn't have to do that" than be asked "why did you transgress the sabbath and teach others to do so."

No you do what you believe is right. My only reason to participating in this discussion is to get people to stop listening to man’s teaching about God, and starts letting the Holy Spirit/Jesus teach them. I was told by the Holy Spirit to tell people that whenever someone tells them anything about God they were to ask Jesus if it was right or wrong.

I personally have no interest in or care about if people care to observe the Sabbath or not. I give my views, but just to create enough doubt in some, that maybe going to Jesus for the answer will appeal to him or her.

 

[RND]

No you do what you believe is right.

Thanks!

My only reason to participating in this discussion is to get people to stop listening to man’s teaching about God, and starts letting the Holy Spirit/Jesus teach them.

That makes sense considering only those that here the HS can do the things established in the law of God. Romans 8:7.

I was told by the Holy Spirit to tell people that whenever someone tells them anything about God they were to ask Jesus if it was right or wrong.

My Bible tells me that if someone doesn't speak to the law and the testimony not to here them. What you have just described is the way many follow false prophets. How many times have you heard someone say, "Jesus told me this" or "Jesus told me that." This is why we get the Jim Jones's, the David Koresch's, the Marshall Applegate's or the world.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

I personally have no interest in or care about if people care to observe the Sabbath or not. I give my views, but just to create enough doubt in some, that maybe going to Jesus for the answer will appeal to him or her.

I believe the Holy Spirit and thus Jesus led me to the sabbath. Does that mean Jesus tells some the truth and tells other error? That the Ten Commandments is for some and not the other?

 

[Stryder06]

The Sabbath is a hot topic (to SDAs) because it's the only topic that exists for SDAs.

Not at all my friend. We can talk about hell, the state of the dead, health laws, end time events, prophecy, creation, etc.

You name it and we can talk about it. Mind you, around here, none of the above topics get as much play as the sabbath though.

 

[Stryder06]

I believe that if an Adventist isn't talking about the Sabbath, then they're not really talking about anything else. Except, perhaps, vegetarianism or Ellen G. White or the 3 Angels Message or Sunday Worship being the Mark of the Beast.

Again, this is incorrect. We can speak on any topic you'd like. But there is a reason why the sabbath is the more popular topic, and this isn't just for Adventist. Alot of people have questions in regards to the sabbath, and because God is faithful, those who seek the truth will find it.

Adventists would be perceived a lot more favourably if they held positions on a more diverse array of topics. But even the name of the denomination (Seventh-Day Adventists) is a bit of a pigeon hole in itself.

Fortunatley we're not in this to be popular. We're in it because it's truth and truth is life.

 

[Stryder06]

Again I hear what you say, and have no problem of you trying to live the Old Sabbath Law, but you should take the advice of Paul.


(Romans 14:2-6) “People range from those who believe they may eat any sort of meat to those whose faith is so weak they dare not eat anything except vegetables. Meat-eaters must not despise the scrupulous. On the other hand, the scrupulous must not condemn those who feel free to eat anything they choose, since God has welcomed them. It is not for you to condemn someone else’s servant: whether he stands or falls it is his own master’s business; he will stand you may be sure, because the Lord has power to make him stand. If one man keeps certain days as holier than others, and another considers all days to be equally holy, each must be left free to hold his own opinion.”

You're not hearing what I said or you wouldn't have said that. I understand what Paul is saying, and it is not what you think it is. But I addressed that in my previous post to you.

 

[Zeena]

I believe the Holy Spirit and thus Jesus led me to the sabbath. Does that mean Jesus tells some the truth and tells other error? That the Ten Commandments is for some and not the other?

Matthew 12:10
And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

 

[Stryder06]

Matthew 12:10
And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

Vs 11 & 12 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

 

[squint]

Vs 11 & 12 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

Yeah, so LET'S STONE ALL THE SHEEP in the PIT who don't show up for 'church' on SATURDAY!?