Why do you have icons in your homes?

[nutroll]

I think the most important thing to understand about icons is that they do visually what the Gospels do verbally. They proclaim the good news that God took on flesh for our salvation. When God became man, He became depictable. An icon serves as a constant visual reminder of the incarnation.

It is also important to understand the power that images have in our lives. Anyone who has ever looked at a picture of a loved one who lives far away or who has died, knows that the picture is more than simply the paper or the chemicals that make up the picture. The longing we feel is for the person depicted, not the image itself.

On the other hand, when we see an image burned in effigy or put on a dart board, we understand that the insult is not intended to the image, but rather to the person depicted. The way we treat images says a lot about how we feel about the person or thing depicted.

When we treat icons with reverence, it is not because we respect wood or paint or gold, but because we honor the person depicted and feel a connection to them that transcends the physical matter of the icon.

And so, we surround ourselves with icons of Christ, His Mother, and the Saints to remind ourselves of the incarnation of Christ, and of salvation history.We use icons to teach. And we have icons as a connection to those Saints that we ask to pray for us. We venerate icons and greet them with a kiss because we would do the same if the person depicted were standing in front of us.

 

[Matrona]

A friend of ours has an Icon of Christ washing the disciples' feet above the sink in his bathroom. Would this be frowned upon?

He should probably ask his priest.

Personally, being someone with a stomach that is frequently upset, it's nice to have an icon or two within sight of the bathroom.

 

[FallingWaters]

Hi Fallingwaters, I wish you could visit an actual Orthodox church near you to see the beauty of the icons. We don't worship or idolize them. They are beautiful paintings of Christ, of Mary, of the Apostles, of the Saints, and yes of the life of Christ. I am actually Russian Orthodox, and have an icon of the Tsar-Martyr's family (actually it is my avatar on my message) along with a beautiful icon of my patron saint, Saint Brigid of Kildare along with others in my home. Icons are a beautiful connection to the Orthodox faith.
Autumngirl

I once saw a movie about Anastasia. After I saw the movie, I read a couple of books about the family. I was so very sorry to hear about the wicked way they treated the Tsar and his family- is it Anastasia's family you are referring to? What an absolutely awful chapter in history! Poor Anastasia.

 

[FallingWaters]

I know it's not for me to say, but I think it's a very clever idea- if you're going to put an icon in your bathroom- to choose one of Jesus washing the disciples' feet. Very fitting. (As long as it's not against protocol as someone else has suggested.)

 

[autumngirl]

I know it's not for me to say, but I think it's a very clever idea- if you're going to put an icon in your bathroom- to choose one of Jesus washing the disciples' feet. Very fitting. (As long as it's not against protocol as someone else has suggested.)

Yes, that is the same Anastasia that you are referring to. It was a horribly sad thing that happened to that family. Very tragic.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

The Eastern Orthodox (which includes the Greek, Russian, Antiochian, etc., Orthodox churches) are differentiated from the Oriental Orthodox (Coptic Church, etc., which are non-Chalcedonian - i.e., they don't agree with the Chalcedon statement about Christ having 2 natures - they would say they are miaphysites, i.e., Christ has 1 nature, but it may end up being a semantic issue, and the churches may become reconciled in the future).

I think something is being worked about that issue right? I have heard news about reconciliation. We had egyptians coming to our church in Korea and after they had talked to the Metropolitan they were able to take communion.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

FallingWaters,

Old tradition says that icons are like Scripture to those who can't read the gospel. Every icon depicting a biblical event is (in my words) mysterious, interesting and awesome. You would see tiny things left and right and they would mean something important. You would be like "Wow"

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Someone please explain this bathroom issue to me though. Being a former muslim, I immediately picked up a legalism, rules issue, whether it is false or not...

What are we doing so horrible in the bathroom that we can not have an icon? Is it something God did not give us? I am just confused because I have heard this story many times when I used to be muslim. Don't put the Quran down, don't read in the bathroom, don't have food in your mouth in the bathroom. Come on!!!!

Question would be, if an icon is depicting biblical event, it is a picture of the Scripture, and we can not have it in the bathroom, we can certainly NOT read the Bible on the stool. Ain't no different than islam to be honest!

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I was asking specifically though, about the special "icon corner" that some/most Orthodox people have in their homes. I had never heard of it, but a couple of folks have already explained a little bit to me.

I don't have a corner in our house, but we have many icons around the house. It is good to be in eye contact with one at all times. My wife is not Orthodox but she has something towards icons. So we have Theotokos and Christ icons on our night stands. I am going to have a corner sometime later where I can also light a candle, maybe burn incense.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I thought of the "Way of the Cross" that Catholic churches have set up usually down both sides of the church where you can meditate on the last hours of Jesus' life, and death and burial. They're also called the "Stations of the Cross" but basically it's a visual aid to prayer, and meditation on the things of God.

So does an icon necessarily have to be an antique or is it something you can buy brand new?

I am going through this thread slowly, anyway, our difference with Catholics is that we do not have any 3d objects like statues as icons. This has been ruled out by an ecumenical council. If you read Christian history, you will icons caused quite a bit of a headache and their usage had to be regulated by early Christians.

It could be brand new or antique, I always think it is good to have them blessed by someone in the Church authority (father, bishop or higher)

 

[cobweb]

I'm not Orthodox or even a catechumen ... so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I had a lot of trouble understanding Icons (at all.... and I mean AT ALL) until I read Sacred Doorways: A Beginner's Guide to Icons by Linette Martin. It isn't a theology book, but I wasn't ready for a theology book. I needed something that was really basic and written for people who had absolutely no understanding of Iconography.

I was seeing Icons through years of Protestant conditioning that told me they were idolatry and sinful. I'm still very, very new to the concepts of Icons and Orthodoxy, but reading it helped me appreciate both a lot more.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I was seeing Icons through years of Protestant conditioning that told me they were idolatry and sinful.

http://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/v/showthread.php?t=5163

They get pretty aggresive on that too, they suspended me when I got mad at their ignorance.

 

[choirfiend]

Someone please explain this bathroom issue to me though. Being a former muslim, I immediately picked up a legalism, rules issue, whether it is false or not...

What are we doing so horrible in the bathroom that we can not have an icon? Is it something God did not give us? I am just confused because I have heard this story many times when I used to be muslim. Don't put the Quran down, don't read in the bathroom, don't have food in your mouth in the bathroom. Come on!!!!

Question would be, if an icon is depicting biblical event, it is a picture of the Scripture, and we can not have it in the bathroom, we can certainly NOT read the Bible on the stool. Ain't no different than islam to be honest!

I don't take my bible into the bathroom to read it on the pot. I don't put my bible on the ground. When I have it out, I don't stack things on it that are "less holy" or use it like a coaster. I think the Muslims got that from US, lol.

I was singing in a non-Orthodox church with one of my choirs, and we needed something to prop up the lid of the piano so more sound could come out. The PASTOR handed us the gigantic bible that they keep on the lecturn and shoved it right in and I was the only one who was horrified.

This is called reverence. It is not legalism. It is having respect for the sacredness and sanctity of things made holy through their dedication to and blessing by God. God blessed matter, and He TOTALLY blessed it in the Incarnation. We keep Holy things for the Holy, and that includes showing our reverence in how we generally treat things, not just by kissing them.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I was singing in a non-Orthodox church with one of my choirs, and we needed something to prop up the lid of the piano so more sound could come out. The PASTOR handed us the gigantic bible that they keep on the lecturn and shoved it right in and I was the only one who was horrified.

I don't agree with you in this matter. That pastor got the job done, you got the sound you wanted right? I think it that way. Even that was not a moment of emergency, sometimes such moments can arise and your object "bible" in this case could be a life-saver. Furthermore, God blessing the "matter" in Incarnation has nothing to do with not putting an object on the ground. If that is the case, then God blessed a lot of matter, such as ourselves, but we still have to go to bathroom. In that mindset, we might as well kiss church walls. If it is not legalism it is more superstition. Now in my heart, I respect the things that deserve respect at all times. I know it from the heart. But I know when not to cross into superstition and legalism.

 

[Khaleas]

OT:

HAPPY BIRTHDAY Bushmaster!!!!

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Also, do we believe that bathroom is such an unholy place and our act in there is such an unholy act? Muslims believe that bathrooms are full of demons, do we have the same notion here? God blessed the matter in Incarnation, and that Matter had to go to bathroom also.

 

[gzt]

We have icons because we have pictures of our loved ones. These great saints pray for us and inspire us and we venerate them.

As far as bathroom matters: there is nothing unholy about defecation or micturition. Everybody's got to do it and God became a man who had to micturate and defecate like the rest of us, making our bodily functions holy.

The book of the Bible itself should be treated with reverence because it too is an icon. That is why we venerate the Gospel book. We should treat the book itself with respect because it is a symbol of God's coming to man. We shouldn't use it as a doorstop or something, but it's not a problem if it gets dogeared with use or put on the ground or even written in. The only reason I wouldn't read it on the can is that I don't take nice books of any sort into the bathroom because of all the opportunities for water damage.

 

[choirfiend]

Nope. But it's often dirty business (in the physical sense, not a spiritual sense!) and not appropriate to the very meaning of holy, which is set apart. Icons, bibles, and such are set apart from what sometimes is the dirty business of life.

It should be a way that helps us see how we need to bring holiness (in the spiritual sense) into the mundane.

So church is set apart. We worship in a specific space (and Bushman, you probably havent seen one yet, but when a church is consecrated, we bless and anoint the walls. When a deacon travels around the church with a censer, he is blessing the icons on the walls and the walls themselves). But we bring that set apartness home in our private prayers and worship. But we keep that "set apart" by having our icon corner. But we put St. Euphrosynos in the kitchen. But that reminds us of setting apart food in fasting.

It all affects the other, but if you make EVERYTHING of equal holiness (while reserving the understanding that EVERYTHING in life was created good and that our job is to take creation and offer it back to God in thanksgiving) then it is easy to lose the sense of set-apartness. When everything is equal, nothing is special. And we believe in doing small things to remind ourselves just how special it is.

The paper and ink of the bible means nothing. But because I reverence the True God whose word is contained with, and in which I read of His sacrifice for all people, I don't put it on the floor where it could be stepped on.

The American flag is supposed to be burned if it touches the ground. It is displayed, held, and venerated in a specific way.

Likewise, actions and attitudes with the sacred items in our church lives are specific and structured. They're set apart so that we can remember and understand the meaning behind them and in treating them with due reverence.

 

[choirfiend]

I don't agree with you in this matter. That pastor got the job done, you got the sound you wanted right? I think it that way. Even that was not a moment of emergency, sometimes such moments can arise and your object "bible" in this case could be a life-saver. Furthermore, God blessing the "matter" in Incarnation has nothing to do with not putting an object on the ground. If that is the case, then God blessed a lot of matter, such as ourselves, but we still have to go to bathroom. In that mindset, we might as well kiss church walls. If it is not legalism it is more superstition. Now in my heart, I respect the things that deserve respect at all times. I know it from the heart. But I know when not to cross into superstition and legalism.

Someone could have taken 30 seconds to walk to a sunday school classroom and get a different book.

It is not legalism, or superstition. It comes from a love for Christ and a desire to treat the things which are especially dedicated to Him in a manner befitting Him.
People threw their clothes down in the street for Him to trample.
While we know all creation is sanctified, we specifically bless water, fruit, wheat adn bread, wine, oil, etc., and truly believe that grace is bestowed through such a blessing, that the items are made holy by God and must be treated as such. We bless icons. We keep our palm leaves from Palm Sunday til the next year- anything that has been blessed must be buried or burned, not just thrown out with common trash. If my bible fell into a million pieces and I lost half the pages and it wasn't very much good anymore, I would burn it, not throw it out.

What we believe in our hearts is displayed in our actions. Faith and action, baby, united

 

[Greg the byzantine]

I am going through this thread slowly, anyway, our difference with Catholics is that we do not have any 3d objects like statues as icons.

Actually we do have bas relief icons (usually carved in wood, or gilded in silver) that are 3d

Nope. But it's often dirty business (in the physical sense, not a spiritual sense!) and not appropriate to the very meaning of holy, which is set apart. Icons, bibles, and such are set apart from what sometimes is the dirty business of life.

Think even the holiest of people must use the bathroom because they still have bodies.

Also the bathroom can actually be a very peaceful place. I often go to the bathroom to get away from the world, and to meditate because I can lock the door to be free of distractions. In fact I have actually poured myself out in prayer more than once while in the shower. Does God think I am being disrespectful, and does he ignore me because of the room I was in?

In fact part of theosis is to worship and Glorify God at every moment in your life, EVEN in the bathroom. Not to mention that God is omniscient so he sees you even when you are on the toilet, so it is a good reminder that he is watching you.