Why do YEC Christians commonly challenge the theory of evolution, while...

[thomas_t]

Hi thanks for the question.
The Theory of Evolution leaves no space for God interacting with creation.
When 2+2 is 4, God can still interact with people.
When the Theory of Plate Tectonics is right, God still can move a mountain. This movement would happen on top of the plate movements.
As I understand the Theory of Evolution, Christians would run into problems if everything is true about it:
When the Theory of Evolution were to be true... God cannot have created two seperate living beings seperately.
God cannot (and must not) save a raven.
God cannot continue to work on a people to shape it the way he wants to and so on.
Why should a Christian be made to believe that God is restricted to have created only one animal seperately - "the universal common ancestor" of all? And why should a Christian believe that God cannot save a raven if he so wishes?
and why should a believer believe that God cannot work on a people for a purpose?

Yet I say it's a good theory and I believe scientists are making a good job. I just happen to not believe in what they say when it comes to evolution.

 

[ximmix]

However, evolutionary theory requires considerable study and (all due respect to everybody) an average or above average IQ.

Wow, really? You mean all people who don't accept the TOE are basically stupid, and we who do are more intelligent? Sounds incredibly silly to me...

 

[thecolorsblend]

Wow, really? You mean all people who don't accept the TOE are basically stupid, and we who do are more intelligent? Sounds incredibly silly to me...

I said nothing of the sort.

(And honestly, it's not like I'm some genius anyway; my answer for the evolution vs. creation thing is "I have no idea")

 

[ximmix]

I said nothing of the sort.

(And honestly, it's not like I'm some genius anyway; my answer for the evolution vs. creation thing is "I have no idea")

Ok, sorry if i misunderstood you.

 

[Tom 1]

not challenging math or physics?

For example, lets assume there is Jesus/God, etc... Then Creationism could be right, however, 2+3= 5 could be wrong.

Because the miracle working Jesus could make 2+3=4,000 or maybe equal 400,000! Why not? Why must only the biology (and earth sciences when it pertains to dating methods) be challenged but no other challenges?

If I could only go back in time and attend a Christian school! I'd be their top student.

-teacher: "BigV, how much is 2+3"?
-BigV: "4,000"!
-teacher: "But last week you said it was 400,000!"
-BigV: "so what? Jesus is a miracle worker, he can do anything, he can make a snake talk, he can make a man walk on water without drowning and he can make 4,000 or 400,000 out of 2+3!

Turning a 'miracles can't happen' argument into a math problem is an unusual move. Running out of ammo or something?

 

[ChetSinger]

not challenging math or physics?

Thanks, I think this is an easy one.

Abiogenesis and the evolutionary story are studies of ancient history. Math and physics (absent cosmology) are studies of the here and now.

It's a lot easier to dispute ancient history than to dispute the here and now.

 

[Philip_B]

Hi thanks for the question.
The Theory of Evolution leaves no space for God interacting with creation.
When 2+2 is 4, God can still interact with people.
When the Theory of Plate Tectonics is right, God still can move a mountain. This movement would happen on top of the plate movements.
As I understand the Theory of Evolution, Christians would run into problems if everything is true about it:
When the Theory of Evolution were to be true... God cannot have created two seperate living beings seperately.
God cannot (and must not) save a raven.
God cannot continue to work on a people to shape it the way he wants to and so on.
Why should a Christian be made to believe that God is restricted to have created only one animal seperately - "the universal common ancestor" of all? And why should a Christian believe that God cannot save a raven if he so wishes?
and why should a believer believe that God cannot work on a people for a purpose?

Yet I say it's a good theory and I believe scientists are making a good job. I just happen to not believe in what they say when it comes to evolution.

The Theory of Evolution leaves no space for God interacting with creation.​

I don't wholly accept that, though there are clearly those who do, for it is quite reasonable to see that the evidence of natural selection and environment adaption that we observe is evidence that that God as creator is still active in the world, and in fact if He was not, then maybe he would be a retired creator.

When 2+2 is 4, God can still interact with people.​

God can still interact with people when 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 100

Yet I say it's a good theory and I believe scientists are making a good job. I just happen to not believe in what they say when it comes to evolution.​

My view is that Evolution is almost certainly the best theory we have in terms of the scientific reflection on the origins and development of the planet and our species, and that it does not per se determine that God exists or does not exist. It does however ask us to understand the Genesis creation account/s as tradition of faith and telling us more about God than about earth.

One of the challenges that both science and faith in our age face is the idea of beginning as it seems there is always something before. The ancients had a clear understanding that time had a beginning, and an ending, where as we tend to measure time as infinite in both directions from where we stand.

 

[Kaon]

not challenging math or physics?

For example, lets assume there is Jesus/God, etc... Then Creationism could be right, however, 2+3= 5 could be wrong.

Because the miracle working Jesus could make 2+3=4,000 or maybe equal 400,000! Why not? Why must only the biology (and earth sciences when it pertains to dating methods) be challenged but no other challenges?

If I could only go back in time and attend a Christian school! I'd be their top student.

-teacher: "BigV, how much is 2+3"?
-BigV: "4,000"!
-teacher: "But last week you said it was 400,000!"
-BigV: "so what? Jesus is a miracle worker, he can do anything, he can make a snake talk, he can make a man walk on water without drowning and he can make 4,000 or 400,000 out of 2+3!

I am not a young earth creationist, but to your point I would also challenge 2+3 equaling 5, or the idea that electron position and momentum is statistically limited to a certain amount of precision.

Most of what we take as "true" are actually axioms - things we have accepted as true without requiring the need to vindicate it with some sort of evidence beyond what is "self-evident". It is an axiom that 1 + 1 = 2.

 

[Philip_B]

It is an axiom that 1 + 1 = 2.

or 10

 

[Kaon]

or 10

It could be.

What is "1" anyway? Describe/explain it without using axioms we already take for granted.

For example: "1" is 1 in base 2, but "11" is 1011 in base 2. Here we already have a boundary for the number 1 and 11 - or several definitions of "1" and "11".

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

not challenging math or physics?

For example, lets assume there is Jesus/God, etc... Then Creationism could be right, however, 2+3= 5 could be wrong.

Because the miracle working Jesus could make 2+3=4,000 or maybe equal 400,000! Why not? Why must only the biology (and earth sciences when it pertains to dating methods) be challenged but no other challenges?

If I could only go back in time and attend a Christian school! I'd be their top student.

-teacher: "BigV, how much is 2+3"?
-BigV: "4,000"!
-teacher: "But last week you said it was 400,000!"
-BigV: "so what? Jesus is a miracle worker, he can do anything, he can make a snake talk, he can make a man walk on water without drowning and he can make 4,000 or 400,000 out of 2+3!

Al Capone said, "You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone."

That only works if you want to force someone to your point of view, no matter how logical or illogical it is, Capone's words are true. On the other hand, if you want to change people's mind, the kind word is going to do far, far more.

In the past when I have been accused of being a YEC because a) I'm a Christian and b) I don't blindly follow Darwinian Evolution, I have found that the level of mockery you display on show.

So if there is someone you know who is a YEC, then listen to their views and gently show them where they are wrong. Don't rush in, don't assume and don't cram them with data they are going to reject immediately. In the real world people don't change their thinking just because someone else wants them to, they have to be persuaded.

Don't assume they are unintelligent and for the same reason, don't assume that you know it all. Be prepared for their counter arguments. Read some of what they have to say and more reasoned moderate thinking such as John Lennox (an Oxford mathematician who has debated Richard Dawkins) and David Berlinski (who calls himself a secular Jew).

And for the record if you divide up 2+5 you can easily get 40,000 portions or even 400,000. That is mathematics not a miracle.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

Unsure of what you mean.

I challenge evolution because
It isn't in the Bible

Out of interest do you challenge computers because they aren't in the Bible either?

 

[BigV]

Read some of what they have to say and more reasoned moderate thinking such as John Lennox (an Oxford mathematician who has debated Richard Dawkins) and David Berlinski (who calls himself a secular Jew).

Does John Lennox or David Berlinski affirm YEC?

And for the record if you divide up 2+5 you can easily get 40,000 portions or even 400,000. That is mathematics not a miracle.

I think your analogy is not valid. In both of your examples you will get either 40,000 or 400,000 portions of 7 , which is (2+5).

I was talking about introducing SUPERnatural into math or physics.

mid you are ok with creationism, why aren’t you ok with 2 whole apples plus 5 whole apples = 40,000 whole apples?

 

[BigV]

It is not possible for God to make a quantity of 1 plus another quantity of 1 equal a quantity of 3.

God can do all things possible.

So how was Jesus able to feed 5000+ people with only 2 fish and 5 loaves AND while having twelve baskets of food remaining?

 

[Sketcher]

So, let me get this. You’re a naturalist when it comes to math but a miracle believing and affirming faithful when it comes to biology?

Math itself is part of the framework we have for understanding anything. Biology is the scientific study of physical life.

I affirm miracles. I do not affirm logical absurdities.

 

[ChetSinger]

So how was Jesus able to feed 5000+ people with only 2 fish and 5 loaves AND while having twelve baskets of food remaining?

If the spiritual world includes an extra dimension then such a thing could be straightforward: the bread and fish could simply be 'dropped' here from there. From our point of view they would appear instantaneously within the baskets.

 

[klutedavid]

The Theory of Evolution leaves no space for God interacting with creation.​

I don't wholly accept that, though there are clearly those who do, for it is quite reasonable to see that the evidence of natural selection and environment adaption that we observe is evidence that that God as creator is still active in the world, and in fact if He was not, then maybe he would be a retired creator.

When 2+2 is 4, God can still interact with people.​

God can still interact with people when 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 100

Yet I say it's a good theory and I believe scientists are making a good job. I just happen to not believe in what they say when it comes to evolution.​

My view is that Evolution is almost certainly the best theory we have in terms of the scientific reflection on the origins and development of the planet and our species, and that it does not per se determine that God exists or does not exist. It does however ask us to understand the Genesis creation account/s as tradition of faith and telling us more about God than about earth.

One of the challenges that both science and faith in our age face is the idea of beginning as it seems there is always something before. The ancients had a clear understanding that time had a beginning, and an ending, where as we tend to measure time as infinite in both directions from where we stand.

You cannot measure infinity. Time is a finite concept. There is no overlap between the finite and infinite!

 

[klutedavid]

If the spiritual world includes an extra dimension then such a thing could be straightforward: the bread and fish could simply be 'dropped' here from there. From our point of view they would appear instantaneously within the baskets.

String theory promotes the idea of multiple universes. If String theory is true, then we will never understand our universe.

 

[Philip_B]

You cannot measure infinity. Time is a finite concept. There is no overlap between the finite and infinite!

And where they meet, time and eternity, we find the eschatological reality in Christ himself.

 

[klutedavid]

And where they meet, time and eternity, we find the eschstogical reality in Christ himself.

Obviously everything exists in and through Jesus. We will see eternity when He returns but in the here and now, the clock is ticking.