Why do we receive Grace

[HIM]

So, you are saying that personal righteousness comes through doing works?

Nope. It is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. He has put His law, His Word in our hearts, that is the faith that is preached. In this He has perfected us whom He have sanctified. For if the blood of goats and the ashes of a heifer sanctifieth to the purifying of our flesh. How much more shall the blood of Christ purge our conscience, Who we are, the old man from dead works, sin. to serve the Living God. For it was not possible the blood of bulls and goats should take away sin. But He was manifested take away our sin and in Him is no sin.

 

[David Lamb]

Okay, you really believe that ? What's your righteousness before God ?

I know the question wasn't aimed at me, but I hope you won't mind if I reply. My righteousness before God is the perfect righteousness of Christ. As Paul wrote:

“8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 ¶ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which [is] from the law, but that which [is] through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,” (Php 3:8-10 NKJV)

Our own righteousnesses are like "filthy rags" in God's sight (see Isaiah 64:6).

 

[HIM]

I know the question wasn't aimed at me, but I hope you won't mind if I reply. My righteousness before God is the perfect righteousness of Christ. As Paul wrote:

“8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 ¶ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which [is] from the law, but that which [is] through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,” (Php 3:8-10 NKJV)

Our own righteousnesses are like "filthy rags" in God's sight (see Isaiah 64:6).

Found IN Him not having my own righteousness which is OUT of the Law but that which is THROUGH the FAITH OF Christ Jesus, That which is of God's righteousness upon the Faith which is OF Christ Jesus.

As Chapter two attests. It is God who works in us. Both to WILL and Do His good pleasure.

 

[David Lamb]

Found IN Him not having my own righteousness which is OUT of the Law but that which is THROUGH the FAITH OF Christ Jesus, That which is of God's righteousness upon the Faith which is OF Christ Jesus.

As Chapter two attests. It is God who works in us. Both to WILL and Do His good pleasure.

Yes, it is God who works in us, once we are Christians, both to will and to do His good pleasure. But even then, our righteousness isn't perfect, because our obedience isn't perfect.

There are various other bible verses which speak of God clothing people with righteousness. Here are some examples:

“I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, My soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks [himself] with ornaments, And as a bride adorns [herself] with her jewels.” (Isa 61:10 NKJV)

“5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed [are those] whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed [is the] man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin."” (Ro 4:5-8 NKJV)

“In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell safely; Now this [is] His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.” (Jer 23:6 NKJV)

 

[Brightfame52]

The gift of Jesus as Saviour is for sinners. As part of receiving the gift of Christ, I received the righteousness of Christ that totally dealt with the sin question. Therefore the free gift of the Righteousness of Christ was part of the the gift of Jesus which I received when I believed the Gospel and received Him as Saviour.

Please just answer with a yes or no,

So was Christ Righteousness given to your account as a free gift before you became a believer and while you were yet ungodly ?

 

[Brightfame52]

@David Lamb

My righteousness before God is the perfect righteousness of Christ

Okay sounds good

Our own righteousnesses are like "filthy rags" in God's sight (see Isaiah 64:6).

Sure you right. So when did the perfect righteousness of Christ become yours, when did God see you as righteous in Christ ? Wasit before you believed in Christ or after you believed in Christ ? Was Christ your righteousness when you were yet unbelieving and ungodly ?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Please just answer with a yes or no,

So was Christ Righteousness given to your account as a free gift before you became a believer and while you were yet ungodly ?

We are not in Court and you are not a cross examining lawyer. I have already answered you question. You just need to read my post carefully.

 

[Brightfame52]

We are not in Court and you are not a cross examining lawyer. I have already answered you question. You just need to read my post carefully.

Your answer is incomplete since you avoid answering it as I specifically asked.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Your answer is incomplete since you avoid answering it as I specifically asked.

I am not prepared to give an answer that you have already decided which was the right one.

 

[David Lamb]

@David Lamb


Okay sounds good


Sure you right. So when did the perfect righteousness of Christ become yours, when did God see you as righteous in Christ ? Wasit before you believed in Christ or after you believed in Christ ? Was Christ your righteousness when you were yet unbelieving and ungodly ?

Certainly it was while I was still unsaved, for Paul wrote:

“7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only [that], but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.” (Ro 5:7-11 NKJV)

I could not possibly be reconciled to God by means of any righteousness of my own, for God is perfectly holy, and demands perfect holiness, which I do not have. Christ's perfect righteousness becoming mine, being credited to my account, is part of becoming a Christian.

 

[Brightfame52]

I am not prepared to give an answer that you have already decided which was the right one.

okay talk to you later

 

[Brightfame52]

Certainly it was while I was still unsaved, for Paul wrote:

“7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only [that], but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.” (Ro 5:7-11 NKJV)

I could not possibly be reconciled to God by means of any righteousness of my own, for God is perfectly holy, and demands perfect holiness, which I do not have. Christ's perfect righteousness becoming mine, being credited to my account, is part of becoming a Christian.

Okay i agree with this, so does that go for everyone or just the elect for whom Christ died ?

 

[David Lamb]

Okay i agree with this, so does that go for everyone or just the elect for whom Christ died ?

I'm not sure that I have understood your question correctly, so please forgive me if I've got your intention wrong. For a sinner to be reconciled to God, it is necessary for Christ to have died for them. Reconciliation to God shows that the person is elect. Writing to the Christians at Colossae, the apostle Paul said:

“Therefore, as [the] elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;” (Col 3:12 NKJV)

The apostle Peter likewise addresses his Christian readers as elect:

“1 ¶ Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.” (1Pe 1:1-2 NKJV)

 

[Brightfame52]

@David Lamb

For a sinner to be reconciled to God, it is necessary for Christ to have died for them

Absolutely, so did Christ die for every sinner without exception ? Or Just the elect

 

[David Lamb]

@David Lamb


Absolutely, so did Christ die for every sinner without exception ? Or Just the elect

Well, as I am sure you know, "elect" in the bible means "chosen". The apostle Paul tells Christians that they were chosen:

“3 ¶ Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Eph 1:3-7 NKJV)

Those verses also tell us when He chose/elected us (before the foundation of the world), and why (according to the good pleasure of His will).

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

@David Lamb


Absolutely, so did Christ die for every sinner without exception ? Or Just the elect

I go along with Charles Finney who taught that every person who hears the Gospel are given the chance to believe it or not.

 

[David Lamb]

I go along with Charles Finney who taught that every person who hears the Gospel are given the chance to believe it or not.

So why, ultimately, do some believe on the Lord Jesus Christ while others don't? Is it because those who believe are somehow better (less sinful, cleverer, more godly, whatever) than those who don't? Not according to the bible. Paul wrote to the Christians at Ephesus that they had been dead in trespasses and sins before that wonderful event in their lives beginning with those two words, "But God.....":

“4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in [His] kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,” (Eph 2:4-8 NKJV)

Rather than believing Charles Finney, I believe what Jesus Himself said to people who didn't believe:

“26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.” (Joh 10:26-27 NKJV)

Not, "You are not of my sheep because you do not believe."

 

[Brightfame52]

Well, as I am sure you know, "elect" in the bible means "chosen". The apostle Paul tells Christians that they were chosen:

“3 ¶ Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Eph 1:3-7 NKJV)

Those verses also tell us when He chose/elected us (before the foundation of the world), and why (according to the good pleasure of His will).

so did Christ die for every sinner without exception ? Or Just the elect

 

[Brightfame52]

I go along with Charles Finney who taught that every person who hears the Gospel are given the chance to believe it or not.

so did Christ die for every sinner without exception ? Or Just the elect ?

 

[David Lamb]

so did Christ die for every sinner without exception ? Or Just the elect

I wonder what you believe that "Christ dying for somebody" actually means. If you believe that He died for every single person, but not everybody is actually saved, where does that leave the words of the angel to Joseph:

“"And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins."” (Mt 1:21 NKJV)

The angel doesn't say "He will make their salvation a possibility", but "He will save His people."

All the Christians that Paul addressed in the church at Ephesus are described as "chosen before the foundation of the world". Are we to imagine that there was something special about the Ephesian Christians, or were all who are "in Christ" chosen before the foundation of the world? It was prophesied of Christ that He would see the travail of His soul and be satisfied. (see Isaiah 53:11). How could He be satisfied if even one for whom He died was not actually saved?