Why do the OT and NT contradict so much?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Assyrians destroyed children, men and women...
God did not 'command' them to this because they didnt believe in God.

Hi. Actually YHWH Elohiym used the enemies of the Hebrew Israelites to punish them.
In fact ,something similar is shown in Revelation:

Reve 17:16 and the ten horns that thou didst see upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and shall burn her in fire, 17 for God did give into their hearts to do its mind, and to make one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast till the sayings of God may be complete,

 

[WarriorAngel]

Hi. Actually YHWH Elohiym used the enemies of the Hebrew Israelites to punish them.
In fact ,something similar is shown in Revelation:

Reve 17:16 and the ten horns that thou didst see upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and shall burn her in fire, 17 for God did give into their hearts to do its mind, and to make one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast till the sayings of God may be complete,

Yes that is true...
But the Assyrians conquered other cities/towns too.
They were known as the greatest army of their time.
Now that didnt occur just because they took down the Isreali's to punish them.

The Isreali's were just another conquest to them, and yet they did what the Isreali's did and destroyed towns and killed all.
WE know that wasnt the case for the Isreali's... as per the fact they could write about them. Nevertheless, God only allowed punishment not annihilation.

HOWEVER; I agree with you, as per my previous post where I mentioned their humility and being humbled.
Such as those times the other times armies won, yet never destroyed them.

That shows that God led the way of a certain amount of protection to continue the promised line and life of the Messiah, Himself.

BUT also, as I said the Assyrians did not win because they were commanded by God...
They did not believe in God.

I would love to have all the inside scoop on the entirety of the wars back then. But we have only the history of the Bible. Good as it is, it is not quite as explicit as it could be.

AND archeology has uncovered the truths of the OT..
Another thing God has allowed man to discover.
As for Revelation, that clearly shows us that God allows man free will and all creatures free will....and allows the hearts of men to conquer and make war.

God does not use us as pawns, but when war is necessary, it is necessary.
I believe the ancients said 'God commanded them to kill...' actually means they HAD to kill or be killed.
OR it was necessary and they could not change the fate of war.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Ok, I apologise....
We have some info on other wars.
I watch the history channel.

Ever hear about the battle [war] of the three hundred??

http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/history/ancient_greece.html

For whatever reason this battle lives on.

The reason, I think, the 300 men stood their grounds was to give some time for the others who fled to go warn their town.

Apparently, and I forget which war this was...the winner went to their foe's town and slaughtered all.

That was the way wars were handled.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Excellent post.

[Young LT] Isaiah 2:4 And He hath judged between the nations, And hath given a decision to many peoples, And they have beat their swords to ploughshares, And their spears to pruning-hooks, Nation doth not lift up sword unto nation, Nor do they learn any more--war.

Thank you!!

 

[R3quiem]

The bible is literally a miracle because of its spiritual nature.. and it is the only book in the world that can tell you the end from the beginning.. ie.. the entire OT points to Christ, for in the volume of the book it is written of HIM..

From the creation, to the fall, to the promise, to the redeemer, is all one continuous theme centered on the Lord Jesus Christ..

One of the most important and most popular stories is the story of Joseph in Genesis.. he is a picture of Christ.. loved by his father, was given a coat of many colors.. he was hated by his own brethren.. was sold for twenty pieces of silver.. went from the pit to the prison to the throne, second in command only to Pharaoh.. was given a Gentile bride while hidden from his brethren in a Gentile land.. predicted the future prosperity and famine which was to come.. and he then revealed himself to his brethren in their deepest time of need.. without their even knowing that it was him.. Joseph's father (JACOB, who later was named Israel), learned at the end of his life that his son was alive, and ruler over all..

It's all a theme of Christ.. how that he was loved (is loved) of His Father.. how that His life was colorful and brilliant and undeniably different than any other.. but He came to His own, and His own received Him not.. so they sold Him out to the Gentiles for 30 pieces of silver, they stripped Him of His clothes and crucified Him, and thought that they were finished with Him.. but He rose from that pit which humanity threw Him into, and He is now hidden from Israel as they are blinded in part and the gospel is going out to the Gentiles.. and He will be given a Gentile bride as He is building His church and calling out a people for His name.. CHRISTians.. He has given us a future Revelation of things to come, and He will ultimately reveal Himself to His brethren, even the nation of Israel.. and they will look upon the one whom they have pierced, and they will mourn for Him in that day.. the DAY of the LORD..

This is ONE example of how the scriptures thematically point to Christ.. it happens over and over in the scriptures.. and it's all centered upon Him..



That's right.. the gospel is a revelation from God, it is NOT from man.. when Peter answered the question of "who do you say that I am..?".. The Lord told him that flesh and blood had NOT revealed this to him, but that it was His Father (GOD) who had revealed it to him.. this is true in every case and it's how a person is born again through the incorruptible word of God which lives and abides for ever..



I'm glad that you're asking, and keep seeking, and keep knocking.. God is well pleased and very capable of revealing Himself to you as long as you're geniunely searching for the truth.. BUT, don't worry about worldly examples like Mother Teresa.. you're not her.. and you have your own heart and mind which God will speak to..

It always seemed to me that Christians tried to fit Christ into the OT after the fact. They pick out vague things that could be interpreted to mean things that they want them to mean, and then go with it. Can you provide a bunch of solid verses supporting the idea that the OT all leads up to Jesus?

I think that God has made Himself crystal clear, and that He is a God of revelation.. He is not hiding.. He's asking you to come to Him, knowing that you're a sinner, and He is the ONLY ONE who can do anything about that.

Maybe he made himself clear to you, but not to everyone. If he made himself clear, there would not be over a billion non-religious people, and not a billion or so Muslims, and not a billion or so Hindus and Buddhists (combined). I can't sense him with any of my five senses; I do not feel him. How then can it be said that he is not hiding?

Thank YOU R3.. most folks are not as open as you have been.. and I hope that you continue to search diligently for HIM with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength.. because HE will see to the rest.. there's not a doubt in my mind.

Thanks again.

 

[R3quiem]

Double post.

 

[Renton405]

Remember Jesus talked about damnation and hell more than the OT ever did.. While the NT may seem more merciful we see in the NT that people are punished with unending fire eternally, that is more justice than the OT could ever have..

Maybe he made himself clear to you, but not to everyone. If he made himself clear, there would not be over a billion non-religious people, and not a billion or so Muslims, and not a billion or so Hindus and Buddhists (combined). I can't sense him with any of my five senses; I do not feel him. How then can it be said that he is not hiding?

Or maybe there are just alot of hard-hearted people who don't want it.. Thats what I have perceived..

 

[R3quiem]

Elaboration on war;

Assyrians destroyed children, men and women...
God did not 'command' them to this because they didnt believe in God.

Isreali's killed everyone [wartime] but they believed in God, therefore in their hearts God commanded this be done. When they won they knew God was granting favor omn their efforts.

This statement is absolutely terrifying- yeah they killed people but since it was God's will everything is fine?

This is how nearly every single religious war starts!

Every war fought over religion has followers that believed just as strongly as Christians do that their God wants them to do this. Saying God wants you to go to war is just an excuse to do something that the people want to do. The Crusades, The Inquisition, Witch-Burning, September 11! All in the name of God.

 

[R3quiem]

Remember Jesus talked about damnation and hell more than the OT ever did.. While the NT may seem more merciful we see in the NT that people are punished with unending fire eternally, that is more justice than the OT could ever have..

Or maybe there are just alot of hard-hearted people who don't want it.. Thats what I have perceived..

Hard-hearted is being fine with the fact that people are suffering.
Hard-hearted is killing in the name of a God that you believe to exist, and to destroy people because they do not believe in it like you do.

Open-hearted is earnestly seeking the truth.

 

[Rhamiel]

Ok I did not read all of this thread, God does not change
He is the same today as He was Yesterday, He hates sin, in the OT there was not forgiveness of sin, so He killed a lot of folk to get rid of sin, in the NT we have forgiveness of sin so God does not have to kill us to get rid of our sin

 

[Markea]

Can you provide a bunch of solid verses supporting the idea that the OT all leads up to Jesus?

I already did, perhaps you didn't hear it the first time.. Here it is again..

Luke 24:25-27

Then He said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into His glory?

And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Then He said this to His disciples.. Luke 24:44-47

And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me.

Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Do you consider that solid..? I do.. and not only that.. but when we read the OT with Christ in mind.. then it's easier to see these things..

We're studying the FEASTS of GOD that were given to Israel in the OT.. they all speak of Christ.. especially the first one, which is PASSOVER..

It's an undeniable picture of Christ.. the Lamb was slaughtered and its blood was put upon the doorposts so that they would be covered.. and today, that is the only covering which can deliver us from the judgment of God which is coming against this world of ungodliness.. the blood of God's beloved Son, our Saviour and Lord Jesus Christ..

 

[ContentInHim]

Ok I did not read all of this thread, God does not change
He is the same today as He was Yesterday, He hates sin, in the OT there was not forgiveness of sin, so He killed a lot of folk to get rid of sin, in the NT we have forgiveness of sin so God does not have to kill us to get rid of our sin

Actually there was forgiveness for sin. It's stated many many times that God is long-suffering and patient - he certainly was with the Israelites whom he forgave over and over again. One of the clearest examples was King David who sinned horribly and repented and was forgiven. He is described lovingly as a man after God's own heart!

Thing is there are always consequences for our sin. Even today under Jesus' blood!

 

[Rick Otto]

"The OT is so full of killing and suffering at God's hands, that it is hard to understand how he can be considered loving when he solves so many problems through warfare. Christ on the other hand, preached love and kindness, but it's hard for me to believe any of it because he based all of his teachings on the OT. I'm going to post a few of the verses in the OT that are very cruel, and I would like for anyone to tell me what they think of them, and explain how they line up with the teachings of Christ. I ask this not to debate, but to understand."

I don't see the NT contradicting the OT, rather more like an "upgrade".
The violence hasn't left, but the emphasis has shifted from the physical to the spiritual as we see in the shift from the law of sacrifice to the law of grace.
Mt 10:34 - Show Context Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 2Co 10:4 - Show Context (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

 

[R3quiem]

I already did, perhaps you didn't hear it the first time.. Here it is again..

Luke 24:25-27

Then He said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into His glory?

And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Then He said this to His disciples.. Luke 24:44-47

And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me.

Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Do you consider that solid..? I do.. and not only that.. but when we read the OT with Christ in mind.. then it's easier to see these things..

These are NT verses that are saying that the OT all leads up to Christ. What I meant for providing verses was to provide OT verses that show that the OT leads up to Christ. I guess I should have said that specifically, sorry.

We're studying the FEASTS of GOD that were given to Israel in the OT.. they all speak of Christ.. especially the first one, which is PASSOVER..

It's an undeniable picture of Christ.. the Lamb was slaughtered and its blood was put upon the doorposts so that they would be covered.. and today, that is the only covering which can deliver us from the judgment of God which is coming against this world of ungodliness.. the blood of God's beloved Son, our Saviour and Lord Jesus Christ..

It seems to me that it's just an example of trying to fit Christ into the OT. The verses say that a lamb was slaughtered- the OT is full of animal sacrifices to God, why is this any different from any of the other animal sacrifices?

 

[ContentInHim]

Jesus is called the Lamb of God. See why?

Just as the Israelites were delivered from the Angel of Death by the blood of the Passover lamb, so we are delivered from the second death as a result of our sin by the blood of Jesus.

 

[WarriorAngel]

This statement is absolutely terrifying- yeah they killed people but since it was God's will everything is fine?

This is how nearly every single religious war starts!

Every war fought over religion has followers that believed just as strongly as Christians do that their God wants them to do this. Saying God wants you to go to war is just an excuse to do something that the people want to do. The Crusades, The Inquisition, Witch-Burning, September 11! All in the name of God.

Tell me.... What about the non religious wars?

They far outnumber the religious wars BTW...
But could you explain to me why the Assyrians overtook and killed over cities?

How about the Greeks?

WHAT I SAID was that they won because IT was decreed by God to do so.

WHAT YOU Are not doing is asking WHY they were at war.

You might see the religious impliactions...
But you are being blind to the secular wars.

SO care to share with me why you havent offered an opinion on that?

The world is filled with religion or lack thereof.

DID you know that it was the athiests who killed the most ppl ever?

Listing them;
Hitler [no he was not christian] 11 million dead.
Stalin 41 million dead
Mao Sae Tung 80 million dead.

So..who kills more?

Not one single religion has caused more death than those who had no God to believe in.

Think about it.

 

[CShephard53]

Um, sorry, but how does OT suffering and killing contradict the NT? Romans 6:23 states it quite clearly- sin deserves death.

 

[CShephard53]

Oh, and I might add that there is a huge difference between killing and murder. One is moral, one is not.

 

[R3quiem]

Oh, and I might add that there is a huge difference between killing and murder. One is moral, one is not.

If you lived back in the days of the OT, do you think you would have killed a baby if you believed that God wanted you to do it?

 

[WarriorAngel]

R3quiem...

You havent answered me.

MANY if NOT all the armies killed children, and women, and whole towns.

Is it different for the Isreali's [of that generation] because they did it through God...vs not thru God?

What's the difference?

And the NT is kind of different because Jesus came, He taught what was wanted...
He said...'Hey cast the first stone...if you are sinless'

He said 'God allowed that because YOU HAVE HARD HEARTS...'

Yes, the same God, but the times changed because Jesus came to tell it like it was supposed to be.