Why do some people think Hell isn't real?

[Fascinated With God]

The verse says "During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them."

"During those days". I believe it is stretching this verse too far to say that death is forever denied to everyone. I don't know how the other verses contribute to your idea. Death is only denied to these people at this particular time. Death is not forever denied to them, and the second death is a certainty for all who reject God.

At least there are some things that we can actually agree on.

 

[P1LGR1M]

It might be proof to you but this does nothing for me, to prove the chaff to be sinners. What you've just quoted seems to make the 'chaff and wheat' as comparable to 'tree and it's fruit' does it not?

It is not I that makes it comparable...it is John the Baptist who does that, and by extension...the Holy Spirit.

Consider:


Matthew 3:7-12

King James Version (KJV)


7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:


In view are those called to repentance. Among them those that John identifies as having not repented, and he demands that they "bring forth fruit meet for repentance."


9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.


"Your heritage will not save you," he says, "donot trust that because you are Jews your heart is right from God. The opposite is true, you are far from God and your works betray this. You are vipers."



10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.


Note that trees, not a tree, are in view. He is speaking individually to them, separating them as individuals, rather than encompassing them as a nation.

And he is clear that destruction is in view, for he states that if they do not repent...they will be, like trees which bear bad fruit...cut down. There is no "pruning involved in the metaphorical analogy.



11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:


Our next analogy uses immersion. "I baptze with water. But He will baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

Again...judgment. He has not redirected his speech but still speaks to those he spoke to in vv.7-10.

The choices are clear concerning The Baptizer: with Spirit...or with judgment.

Repent...or be cut down. Those are the choices given.



12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.



Here wheat is contrasted with chaff. The wheat is gathered, the chaff burned up.

Now tell me how we go to a severe rebuke in calling for trees that are ready to be cut down to...believers being made holy? Believers being cleansed? Believers being pruned that they might bear more fruit, which is the biblical purpose for pruning. You don't prune a bad tree, you cut it down, as John says will happen to, not believers, but a brood of vipers.

Do you understand the inconsistency there? The context is lost for the purpose of viewing the separation of chaff and wheat as a cleansing of believers, rather than a purging (cleansing) of His floor. Forgotten is that in view is a cutting down, not a pruning.

Where does scripture say the tree is sinners and the fruit is saints?

10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.


You don't prune roots, Hillsage.

And I would point out that it is not the fruit here that is cut down, but again...the trees. As often happens when we merge concepts is that we establish a pattern where we can make scripture fit our position, rather than making our position conform to that which is written. Your position cannot be supported by the text itself.

See my point?

I do, really. But it is not a point that is valid, as it destroys the context, content, and intent of the passage.

I say ONE outcome with this baptism and Pentecost proved it for me.

ACT 2:3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit

Does this fire burn up the chaff? Are the disciples at this time being purged? Cleansed?

No...they are receiving the Holy Spirit, as was promised. Again you merge concepts, just as you do in equating the trial of the works of the saints with the cutting down of unrepentant people, which is usually the case when we get into the discussion of losing salvation. There is loose way about the exposition which again, makes it possible to make scripture teach anything one wishes it to mean. It is prooftexting at it's eisegetical worst, because it sounds reasonable to those that do not for themselves look at the scriptures with any amount of effort. Most will be happy to skip from church to church until they find the right church...the one that conforms to what they want to believe.

And it is no different with commentaries: one will search until they fond the commentator that agrees with them. When our efforts should be on discerning what is in scripture itself.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Continued...

Did the Spirit have to burn through the flesh to 'get in'? I don't know.

You can know: does scripture teach that the Holy Ghost in any place in scripture teaches that He has to "burn His way into" people?

Does Acts 2 present this imagery? Or does it simply say that fire appeared and "sat on them?"

But "all will be salted with fire."

Okay, I had hoped to get through this, but have to get going. Thanks for the response and look forward to future conversations.

God bless.

 

[Pozessed]

I don't believe hell exists for 2 reasons.

1. As a parent I would never submit my child to torture for any reason.

2. I see no proof of evil that is outside of mans own doing. That to me means evil is man made and hell is to, so unless we physically create hell it doesn't exist.
Some of us may feel like we're in hell right now, but it could be so much worse.

 

[Fascinated With God]

There are only three 'outer darkness' verses, and all are in Matthew.

There are some more verses that are very similar. I'll use the YLT since you said that is your favorite version.

For if God's messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast them down to Tartarus, did deliver them to judgment, having been reserved
2 Peter 2:4

For them the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved.
2 Peter 2:17

And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day
Jude 1:6

for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.
Jude 1:13
​

Does that make you wonder a bit? It does me. There's some other interesting things in these verses as I see them.

MAT 8:12 while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth."

Do you think ''sons of the kingdom" is symbolic of born again people? That's my take on it.

I don't think that much of so called born again Christians. But as to people for whom the road to hell is paved with good intentions, I don't believe that the outer darkness is necessarily permanent in all cases.

And then there is this to think about on the next verse;

MAT 22:13-14 Then the king said to the attendants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and cast him into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.' 14 For many are called/kletos/saints, but few are chosen/favorites."

2822 kletos: invited ie appointed, or (spec) a saint
1588 eklektos: select; by impl. favorite

This verse seems to indicate that it is CHRISTIANS/saints who are being judged for falling short in personal sanctification subsequent to justification. What is your take? I mean how does one accidentally get into heaven, if that's what you think it is symbolizing?

I don't know whether the wedding feast symbolizes heaven or the resurrection, or neither. I think it is the same as the wedding feast of the lamb in the book of Revelation.

Question, do you believe in eternal security?

Only after the resurrection. Not before.

 

[Hillsage]

I'm not going to furthur address all the 'bible' stuff. I've let you know where I am coming from, as have you. And it is really off topic anyway.

It is not I that makes it comparable...it is John the Baptist who does that, and by extension...the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 3:7-12
In view are those called to repentance. Among them those that John identifies as having not repented, and he demands that they "bring forth fruit meet for repentance."

I am going to present a principle which will address your whole rebuttal I think. And will allow me to keep this short.
Is this speaking to Jew or Gentile? 'Called' people of God or 'uncalled'? You mentioned "context/content", and I think that's important for a proper understanding the 'symbolism' in this teaching. Since he was speaking to 'the chosen/called' people of God, we need discernment to make it relative for us today. John was addressing 'two men' in 'one person' with these two analogies. The message of 'trees/men' needing to be killed is to be applied to the 'religious/pharisee, Sadducee man'....eg. sins of 'self righteousness'. To kill the 'pharisee/Sadducee' man is not to 'kill the person'. Jesus was always trying to destroy/kill 'the religious man'...the religious spirited man. At the same time, those very same men were also representative of the sins of 'un righteousness' in the 'wheat/chaff' analogy.

Our next analogy uses immersion. "I baptze with water. But He will baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

Again...judgment. He has not redirected his speech but still speaks to those he spoke to in vv.7-10.

The choices are clear concerning The Baptizer: with Spirit...or with judgment.

You are adding an "or" that is not in the very verse you quote. It says "Spirit AND fire". You have absolutely not dealt with the day of Pentecost where that is obviously the case. In an attempt to keep this shorter....deal with that verse for me please. From my position that fire is representative of the Holy Spirit releasing the 'judgmental and consuming fire of God' in our lives today as we strive for sinless perfection in our walks. The disciples walks 'in the Spirit' began that day. Not just walks in miraculous power of 'gifts of the Spirit', but in the purgative power that would produce 'fruit of the Spirit' in their lives. As we offer our lives 'a living sacrifice' God consumes the death and hell we yield in humbleness.

 

[Hillsage]

There are some more verses that are very similar. I'll use the YLT since you said that is your favorite version.

For if God's messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast them down to Tartarus, did deliver them to judgment, having been reserved
2 Peter 2:4

For them the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved.
2 Peter 2:17

And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day
Jude 1:6

for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.
Jude 1:13​

YLT isn't my 'favorite version', the RSV is, but not because I think it is 'more infallible' or 'more correct'. It's just 'more familiar' to me since I grew up with it from the beginning of my walk. I use KJV a lot because it is keyed with Strong's for the Hebrew/Greek helps. But I like YLT especially when dealing with the 'eternal' and 'hell' type discussions.

What can come out of the 'gloom/chains of darkness' scripturally?

DEU 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain out of the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, ...

Looks like 'the voice of God' and 'the law of God'...'the law' of sin and death that no one could keep. So is that good or bad? Yes IMO.

I don't think that much of so called born again Christians. But as to people for whom the road to hell is paved with good intentions, I don't believe that the outer darkness is necessarily permanent in all cases.

I would agree 'it isn't permanent', but it is purposeful.

I don't know whether the wedding feast symbolizes heaven or the resurrection, or neither. I think it is the same as the wedding feast of the lamb in the book of Revelation.

I agree, but our interpretation of that 'symbolism' probably doesn't agree. But you never addressed the point. That point being he was judged for a lack of sanctification/imparted righteousness and not because he wasn't called...and was a kletos/SAINT.

Only after the resurrection. Not before.

I believe in eternal security for the 'born again spirit' but not for the temporal salvation in the realm of soul or body. Another rabbit trail though.

 

[P1LGR1M]

I'm not going to furthur address all the 'bible' stuff. I've let you know where I am coming from, as have you. And it is really off topic anyway. I am going to present a principle which will address your whole rebuttal I think. And will allow me to keep this short.
Is this speaking to Jew or Gentile? 'Called' people of God or 'uncalled'? You mentioned "context/content", and I think that's important for a proper understanding the 'symbolism' in this teaching. Since he was speaking to 'the chosen/called' people of God, we need discernment to make it relative for us today. John was addressing 'two men' in 'one person' with these two analogies. The message of 'trees/men' needing to be killed is to be applied to the 'religious/pharisee, Sadducee man'....eg. sins of 'self righteousness'. To kill the 'pharisee/Sadducee' man is not to 'kill the person'. Jesus was always trying to destroy/kill 'the religious man'...the religious spirited man. At the same time, those very same men were also representative of the sins of 'un righteousness' in the 'wheat/chaff' analogy.

You are adding an "or" that is not in the very verse you quote. It says "Spirit AND fire". You have absolutely not dealt with the day of Pentecost where that is obviously the case. In an attempt to keep this shorter....deal with that verse for me please. From my position that fire is representative of the Holy Spirit releasing the 'judgmental and consuming fire of God' in our lives today as we strive for sinless perfection in our walks. The disciples walks 'in the Spirit' began that day. Not just walks in miraculous power of 'gifts of the Spirit', but in the purgative power that would produce 'fruit of the Spirit' in their lives. As we offer our lives 'a living sacrifice' God consumes the death and hell we yield in humbleness.

Okay, Hillsage, you have said enough in saying:

I'm not going to furthur address all the 'bible' stuff.

So hear is a sound-bite response:

Not off-topic, the bible stuff is the topic.

The audience is Israel however we now know thanks to the bible stuff found in that New Testament thingy that salvation as well as judgment extends to all of mankind.

The Lord will not both gather the wheat into His garner and burn up the chaff, showing the OR as opposed to the AND.

I repeat: you do not prune roots.

And there is no judgment associated with the day of Pentecost where the disciples are concerned, the Holy Spirit being represented by fire before (i.e., the burning bush whatchyamacallit and pillar thingy...) and this being a sign, but there was quite a bit of bible stuff being praised by the disciples.

That should be enough for now.

And...lol.

Hope all have a blessed week.

God bless.

 

[Fascinated With God]

YLT isn't my 'favorite version', the RSV is, but not because I think it is 'more infallible' or 'more correct'. It's just 'more familiar' to me since I grew up with it from the beginning of my walk. I use KJV a lot because it is keyed with Strong's for the Hebrew/Greek helps. But I like YLT especially when dealing with the 'eternal' and 'hell' type discussions.

The RSV is my favorite version too, next to the Amplified Bible, but I can't find the RSV online anywhere. I just have a printed copy.

What can come out of the 'gloom/chains of darkness' scripturally?

DEU 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain out of the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, ...

Looks like 'the voice of God' and 'the law of God'...'the law' of sin and death that no one could keep. So is that good or bad? Yes IMO.

I don't see any connection between Duet 5:22 and what the RSV calls "nether gloom".

I would agree 'it isn't permanent', but it is purposeful.

I said "isn't necessarily permanent", but it isn't necessarily temporary either.

I agree, but our interpretation of that 'symbolism' probably doesn't agree. But you never addressed the point. That point being he was judged for a lack of sanctification/imparted righteousness and not because he wasn't called...and was a kletos/SAINT.

Just because someone has the potential and is called does not mean that person will live up to their potential.

 

[dollarsbill]

The final destruction of the unrepentant is the punishment. It is eternal because the unrepentant remain destroyed forever. It doesn't end.

What doesn't end? If the wicked don't exist it has indeed ended.

 

[Timothew]

What doesn't end? If the wicked don't exist it has indeed ended.

Their destruction doesn't end. That is their punishment. If their destruction ended, they would become undestroyed. They don't become undestroyed. Their destruction never ends, it is eternal destruction.

 

[Hillsage]

The RSV is my favorite version too, next to the Amplified Bible, but I can't find the RSV online anywhere. I just have a printed copy.

Years ago when I realized I might not be able to get another bible 'exactly' like the one I depended on so much, I went out to used Christian book stores and found 3 more. My bible software program had an RSV option and I always run the RSV along with KJV, YLT, NAS, NIV. When doing that it's simply amazing how "THE INFALLIBLE WORD OF GOD" can have so many disparagingly different translations.

I don't see any connection between Duet 5:22 and what the RSV calls "nether gloom".

In this OT verse it exemplifies how it kept the Jews from the very God they wanted. So they told Moses to go into that gloom/darkness and come back and tell them what God says and they'd do it. So in that instance the 'nether gloom' actually pertained to 'The Chosen People'. What exactly do yo think the purpose of the "nether gloom" is?

I said "isn't necessarily permanent", but it isn't necessarily temporary either.

Where do you scripturally distinguish when outer darkness is, or is not, permanent? Scripture says it is a place they're kept...until the judgment/krisis. This 'nether gloom' 'judgment/punishment/vengance' is apparently temporal as they await yet a another judgment which is shown by the verse following Jude 1:6.

JUD 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise acted immorally and indulged in unnatural lust, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Now many say the temporal "eternal fire" of this hades/grave and gehenna/fire judgment, has obviously gone out. But is this their FINAL JUDGMENT? According to scripture the answer is no. As a matter of fact, it is GOING to be better for Sodom than the JEWS of CAPERNUM in the judgment to come.

MAT 11:23 And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 But I tell you that it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you."

Just because someone has the potential and is called does not mean that person will live up to their potential.

So do you think OT Jews are saved or not? If not, why?

 

[Timothew]

Where do you scripturally distinguish when outer darkness is, or is not, permanent? Scripture says it is a place they're kept...until the judgment/krisis. This 'nether gloom' 'judgment/punishment/vengance' is apparently temporal as they await yet a another judgment which is shown by the verse following Jude 1:6.

This is an important point. I think that you are correct that the outer darkness is not the final punishment.

I wonder where all of the bible references to outer darkness are. Do you have a list of them handy?

 

[Fascinated With God]

Years ago when I realized I might not be able to get another bible 'exactly' like the one I depended on so much, I went out to used Christian book stores and found 3 more. My bible software program had an RSV option and I always run the RSV along with KJV, YLT, NAS, NIV.

I like bible.cc, it gives 18 translations and 6 extended commentaries on a verse.

When doing that it's simply amazing how "THE INFALLIBLE WORD OF GOD" can have so many disparagingly different translations.

The same thing happens in Spanish, there is not just one way to translate a phrase, especially if there are subtle nuances in the source phrase that are hard to render in the target language. For example take the word sympotico: it sort of means a sympathetic character, someone you have a lot of empathy for, or it could just be translated as charm, but none of these phrases individually captures the full meaning of the word.

In this OT verse it exemplifies how it kept the Jews from the very God they wanted. So they told Moses to go into that gloom/darkness and come back and tell them what God says and they'd do it. So in that instance the 'nether gloom' actually pertained to 'The Chosen People'. What exactly do yo think the purpose of the "nether gloom" is?

Deut 5:22 does not say "nether" gloom, just gloom. And only 2 of the 18 translations on bible.cc even say gloom.

Where do you scripturally distinguish when outer darkness is, or is not, permanent? Scripture says it is a place they're kept...until the judgment/krisis. This 'nether gloom' 'judgment/punishment/vengance' is apparently temporal as they await yet a another judgment which is shown by the verse following Jude 1:6.

JUD 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise acted immorally and indulged in unnatural lust, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Now many say the temporal "eternal fire" of this hades/grave and gehenna/fire judgment, has obviously gone out.

You mean it is temporal because the physical cities are no longer burning? Why would that be a limitation on what they are experiencing in the afterlife?

But is this their FINAL JUDGMENT? According to scripture the answer is no. As a matter of fact, it is GOING to be better for Sodom than the JEWS of CAPERNUM in the judgment to come.

MAT 11:23 And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 But I tell you that it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you."

So do you think OT Jews are saved or not? If not, why?

I think that Romans 11 says that the Jews are saved even without believing in Jesus. They are saved because they are faithful to their patriarchs (which are ours' too). And in Mat 12:32 it says, "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven".

 

[Fascinated With God]

I wonder where all of the bible references to outer darkness are. Do you have a list of them handy?

And throw the good-for-nothing servant into the outer darkness; there will be weeping and grinding of teeth.
Matthew 25:30

Having bound his feet and hands, take him up and cast forth to the outer darkness, there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth
Matthew 22:13

but the sons of the reign shall be cast forth to the outer darkness -- there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.
Matthew 8:12
​

And I suspect that these verses are closely related:

For if God's messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast them down to Tartarus, did deliver them to judgment, having been reserved
2 Peter 2:4

For them the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved.
2 Peter 2:17

And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day
Jude 1:6

for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.
Jude 1:13
​

 

[Hillsage]

Timothew Just got back here and found your post. Looks like Facinated answered for me...for you.

Deut 5:22 does not say "nether" gloom, just gloom. And only 2 of the 18 translations on bible.cc even say gloom.

I really not even saying it is the 'very same thing'...especially since we really don't even know what 'the thing' really is. I just mentioned Deut 5 because of the similarity.

You mean it is temporal because the physical cities are no longer burning? Why would that be a limitation on what they are experiencing in the afterlife?

Because, as a Universal Reconciliation-ist I believe that the 'temporal death' of here and now IS the penalty of sin. When Jesus came here what did he have to do to pay the price for sin? He lived righteously and died physically, did he not? His spirit certainly didn't die and get resurrected anywhere in scripture. And his soul/body certainly didn't go into ETERNAL TORTURE...WHY? Because that isn't the price of sin. Orthodoxy doesn't mention that point. If Jesus is paying the PRICE for sin (according to them) he should be in ETERNAL TORTURE. They don't really believe he paid the price...they believe he changed the price...and they don't even know that.

I think that Romans 11 says that the Jews are saved even without believing in Jesus. They are saved because they are faithful to their patriarchs (which are ours' too). And in Mat 12:32 it says, "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven".

So, in your opinion, when are they, according to scripture also, going to confess/call on His name....which scripture say applies to all?

ACT 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

ROM 10:13 For, "every one who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved."

 

[SilenceInMotion]

Souls do not die, they just get splintered or destroyed. There has to ultimately be a place where they go if they are not saved, and that is Hell.

 

[Hillsage]

Souls do not die, they just get splintered or destroyed. There has to ultimately be a place where they go if they are not saved, and that is Hell.

I'll quote some scriptues and please back up your opinion with the same.

EZE 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins shall die.
EZE 18:20 The soul that sins shall die.

PRO 19:16 He that keepeth the commandment keepeth his own soul; but he that despiseth his ways shall die.

MAT 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy/apollumi both soul and body in hell.

0622 apollumi:to destroy fully (reflex. to perish, or lose) lit. or fig.

If you read in the paper that 20 souls perished, do you take that to mean they died...or went to hell?

Tell me how is a soul "splintered/destroyed" in eternal hell...sounds to me like it never is destroyed...just un-changingly tortured. I serve a God with a better plan IMO.

 

[Nikola Vucicevich]

As many people already mentioned, Jesus never actually says "hell" but gehenna and hades, neither of which mean the modern idea of hell. Furthermore, the image portrayed of hell in the Gospels does not match the common idea.

I have an even better question: what is someone who has faith in God doing worrying about hell?

 

[strangertoo]

As many people already mentioned, Jesus never actually says "hell" but gehenna and hades, neither of which mean the modern idea of hell. Furthermore, the image portrayed of hell in the Gospels does not match the common idea.

I have an even better question: what is someone who has faith in God doing worrying about hell?

well said !

sin is the 'problem' for mankind, not hades or sheol themselves ... sleep in death as Jesus did , but for sinners a thousand years and more until the kingdom is ready for mass salvation Rev 7:9-10 by works Rev 20:13 as only death can free one from sin Rom 6:7 if one refuses to stop abusing folks with sin voluntarily in life and takes advantage of past sins beng forgiven when one STOPS sinning ...

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him
...
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.