Why do some people think Apostle Paul is evil?

[Guojing]

Yes they are the tree but as said 10 of the families of the House of Israel were gentile also. His objective was to reunite them, Jew and gentile (so He came for both).

True, I have explained the OT timetable and how Israel rejecting their Messiah by stoning Stephen changed everything about that.

 

[hedrick]

I am just reading the Bible literally. Matthew-Early Acts is still focused on the nation of Israel, as the rest of the OT since Genesis 12.

Jesus taught that he was bringing the Kingdom of God, and taught how people should treat each other in the Kingdom. Do you really think that the Kingdom only included Jews? That was never the vision of the prophets, for whom all the nations would come to Jerusalem to join the Jews.

While Jesus certainly started with Jews there are plenty of indications that he also reached Gentiles. The crowds that followed him seemed to include them. See Mat 10:15-21. Simeon saw that his mission was for Gentiles (Mark 2:28-32). Mat 24:14 says explicitly that the Kingdom was for the whole world. There are equivalents in Mark and Luke, but I'm quoting the one that says specifically that the Kingdom is for all nations.

Mat 15:24 is the closet to saying that he came only to Israel. The problem is that this was only the beginning of an episode. It appears that he was testing her.

 

[Guojing]

Jesus taught that he was bringing the Kingdom of God, and taught how people should treat each other in the Kingdom. Do you really think that the Kingdom only included Jews? That was never the vision of the prophets, for whom all the nations would come to Jerusalem to join the Jews.

While Jesus certainly started with Jews there are plenty of indications that he also reached Gentiles. The crowds that followed him seemed to include them. See Mat 10:15-21. Simeon saw that his mission was for Gentiles (Mark 2:28-32). Mat 24:14 says explicitly that the Kingdom was for the whole world. There are equivalents in Mark and Luke, but I'm quoting the one that says specifically that the Kingdom is for all nations.

Mat 15:24 is the closet to saying that he came only to Israel. The problem is that this was only the beginning of an episode. It appears that he was testing her.

Jesus is not testing the Cannanite lady. He stressed the OT prophetic timetable to her and all of us readers, it was not time for the Gentiles to be blessed by him yet. He repeated that in John 12:20-24 too.

I have explained that timetable to you in an earlier post, the nation Israel must accept Christ their King first, before the other nations can be reached and blessed. You may want to refer and respond to that.

 

[timothyu]

True, I have explained the OT timetable and how Israel rejecting their Messiah by stoning Stephen changed everything about that.

Or was it the governing body of Judah and their minions that did the rejecting while many of the people stayed with Him. It's a shame that even until this day people are overlooked while leaders call themselves the nation.

 

[Guojing]

Or was it the governing body of Judah and their minions that did the rejecting while many of the people stayed with Him. It's a shame that even until this day people are overlooked while leaders call themselves the nation.

Acts 7, Stephen made it clear thru the Holy Spirit speaking to him. He was addressing the Sanhedrin, the leaders of Israel.

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

 

[timothyu]

He was addressing the Sanhedrin, the leaders of Israel.

the religious leaders. Hardly the overall governing body. That would be Herod's job.

 

[Guojing]

the religious leaders. Hardly the overall governing body. That would be Herod's job.

The point remains, the High priest and the other elders in the Sanhedrin rejected their Messiah. As the leaders go, so goes Israel. It was the same council that made the decision that Christ must be crucified (John 11:46-53)

Paul made it clear in Romans 9 to Romans 11 that national Israel has rejected their Messiah.

 

[timothyu]

The time of the Gentiles is drawing to a close also and the only ones preaching the Kingdom are few but the gentiles purpose of preserving and forwarding scripture is almost done

 

[Guojing]

The time of the Gentiles is drawing to a close also and the only ones preaching the Kingdom are few but the gentiles purpose of preserving and forwarding scripture is almost done

Yes, we are looking forward to the rapture!

 

[timothyu]

Yes, we are looking forward to the rapture!

I prefer to look forward to God's rule myself.

 

[Guojing]

I prefer to look forward to God's rule myself.

Well, the rapture will come 7 years before that.

Romans 8:18-25 explained that creation is groaning until the redemption of our earthly bodies, and Paul repeated that in 1 Cor 15:51-58 repeated that for us.

 

[timothyu]

I prefer not to make it about me but about Him.

 

[Guojing]

I prefer not to make it about me but about Him.

Yep, I can see you don't regard the Apostle Paul as well as me. Cheers

 

[timothyu]

Yep, I can see you don't regard the Apostle Paul as well as me. Cheers

I have nothing against Paul. It's too bad we never got to read of his teachings about the teachings of Jesus. It is more a case of Paul's followers that have ended up giving him a bad rap by using his writings to suit their purposes in religion building.

 

[Guojing]

I have nothing against Paul. It's too bad we never got to read of his teachings about the teachings of Jesus. It is more a case of Paul's followers that have ended up giving him a bad rap by using his writings to suit their purposes in religion building.

Yes, most people will eventually reach a point, like I did, when we realized that Paul almost never talk about what Jesus did in his earthly ministry. I could only read about the Lord's supper but that's it.

He focused only after the resurrection of Christ. He even told us in 2 Cor 5:16

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

If you are a red letter Christian, you will be horrified that Paul is actually urging us to "know Christ no more after the flesh".

 

[timothyu]

If you are a red letter Christian, you will be horrified that Paul is actually urging us to "know Christ no more after the flesh".

I guess if you are not killing Christians anymore, you can at least draw them away from the temple.

 

[garee]

I am going to try to keep my posts not scary and bizarre, so let's all take a VERY long break from posting weird stuff, and allow me to post something normal. I heard of some Christians saying that Apostle Paul was not a true Christian or something like that, how "Jesus warned us about Paul" or something. I don't get it. Why do they think that? Is anyone aware of this situation? Paul was a great guy who preached about love, and he told us that we shouldn't go on sinning, at least I think Paul was the one who wrote Romans 6:1-3. So, what's up with the people who think this? Sorry if I sound rude, but I really do not understand what was going on. Some guy on a website said that the people who claimed he was evil didn't understand his writings or whatever he said.

It comes from a improper understanding of the word apostle .Many have changed the foundation of the word. "sent one" and added new meaning.. . like "venerable one".

 

[Unqualified]

Paul to me is a natural extension of Jesus. He did the nuts and bolts of how to be a Christian and the starting of churches. Jesus was the truth and Paul with his immense intellect taught it as he was told by God and Jesus. I too notice that Paul is not popular as he should be in the cults too. As you say some don’t want to obey him. If Jesus taught lightly on some things they could gloss over it and get away with it like homosexuality and fornication. Where Paul is pretty clear where he stands. They don’t want Paul as canon, the conscience, the morality and the high doctrines that seem to be all inclusive and make Jesus both God and man, like justification by faith. ‘ You believe in God believe also in me’ said Jesus.

 

[garee]

Paul to me is a natural extension of Jesus. He did the nuts and bolts of how to be a Christian and the starting of churches. Jesus was the truth and Paul with his immense intellect taught it as he was told by God and Jesus. I too notice that Paul is not popular as he should be in the cults too. As you say some don’t want to obey him. If Jesus taught lightly on some things they could gloss over it and get away with it like homosexuality and fornication. Where Paul is pretty clear where he stands. They don’t want Paul as canon, the conscience, the morality and the high doctrines that seem to be all inclusive and make Jesus both God and man, like justification by faith. ‘ You believe in God believe also in me’ said Jesus.

Hi thanks for that offer.

I would offer the Son of man Jesus who pleaded with the unseen Father "not by will but yours" helps us to understand he was the chief apostle sent by the Father. He did not usurp the teaching authroity of our unseen God the one Good teaching Master or Lord.

The Son of man, Jesus the apostle denied that position and gave glory to the unseen father, as God .

In that way God is not a man as us and nether is there any fleshly teaching authority as a infallible interpreter set between God not seen and mankind seen .(Job 9:32-33)

Again Jesus like Paul was not sent to do their own will. Jesus the chief apostle like Paul and Apollos lesser apostles planted the incorruptible born again seed and watered it with the doctrines of God that fall from heaven .But the unseen father must do the work in us to both will and empower us to finish it till the end the last day .

An apostle with no other meaning added simply mean "sent ones". Not venerable ones. We are to venerate or hallow the work of our one unseen Good teaching Master God.

He mentions it twice to emphasize the matter.

1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

 

[Unqualified]

@garee you think Paul made mistakes?