Why do some people think Apostle Paul is evil?

[Guojing]

Huh? So all of Jesus teaching about how we should acts as members of the a Kingdom is just for Jews? There’s no sign of that in the Gospels.

Romans 15:8 made it clear that Jesus was a minister to the circumcision during his first coming.
Jesus himself stated that in Matthew 15:24.

During the time of Jesus first ministry, as Paul explained, we gentiles were still having no hope (Ephesians 2:11-12)

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Its all there in the scripture.

 

[hedrick]

Sorry. I’m a follower of Jesus, not Paul. Mat 15:24 is just the beginning. When he sees that she has faith, he does what she asked. Jesus invited the Jews first, but see Mat 24:14 for his intention.

 

[Guojing]

Sorry. I’m a follower of Jesus, not Paul. Mat 15:24 is just the beginning. When he sees that she has faith, he does what she asked. Jesus invited the Jews first, but see Mat 24:14 for his intention.

You are correct there. The OT timetable was always national Israel must accept Jesus as their Messiah first, before the other nations could be reached. (Zechariah 8:3-23)

But Israel rejected their Messiah for the final time by stoning Stephen, who was full of the Holy Spirit. If the nation has rejected Jesus, how in the world can Gentiles be reached?

Thanks to the mystery dispensation of grace (Ephesians 3:9) Jesus raised Paul to be your apostle. None of the other 12 are called apostles to the Gentiles.

You are now saved thru the fall of Israel under this grace dispensation. Romans 9 to Romans 11 have all the details. God became enemies with the nation Israel, for your sake. (Romans 11:28)

 

[timothyu]

So if Paul said Gentiles are dead to the Law, then the Gospel of the Kingdom was clearly not meant for them.

So according to you, putting the will of the Father ahead of our own is bunk to gentiles. Also loving all as self is bunk.

 

[Guojing]

So according to you, putting the will of the Father ahead of our own is bunk to gentiles. Also loving all as self is bunk.

No, I am not saying we can go ahead and sin all we like. Paul dealt with all these issues in Romans.

 

[timothyu]

No, I am not saying we can go ahead and sin all we like.

So we should follow the commandments Jesus gave which covered all previous commandments.

 

[Guojing]

So we should follow the commandments Jesus gave which covered all previous commandments.

If your idea of follow is "trying your best" to keep the 2 greatest commandments and rely on 1 John 1:9 everytime you fail, you do not understand what Paul was trying to teach us.

 

[timothyu]

If your idea of follow is "trying your best" to keep the 2 greatest commandments and rely on 1 John 1:9 everytime you fail, you do not understand what Paul was trying to teach us.

I'm more interested on what our Saviour was teaching us... the difference between serving self and serving others.

 

[Guojing]

I'm more interested on what our Saviour was teaching us... the difference between serving self and serving others.

“In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.” – Romans 2:16

“Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began…” – Romans 16:25

“Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:” – 2 Timothy 2:8

 

[timothyu]

Your choice.

 

[Guojing]

Your choice.

Its all in scripture. You are like a Jew during OT days who refuse to regard Moses similarly. Recall the incident in Numbers?

12 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.

2 And they said, Hath the Lord indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the Lord heard it.

3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)

4 And the Lord spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.

5 And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.

6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

9 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against them; and he departed.

Paul, as an apostle to the Gentiles, is as important to us, as Moses was to the Jews. Even Jesus acknowledged Moses during the 4 gospels.

 

[timothyu]

Your choice.

 

[Radagast]

Sorry. I’m a follower of Jesus, not Paul.

Do you deny that the Pauline Epistles are Scripture?

 

[hedrick]

Do you deny that the Pauline Epistles are Scripture?

No. I was responding to someone who apparently thought Jesus teaching didn’t apply to us, but only Paul’s. When I say I'm a Christian and not a Paulian, I believe I agree with Paul:

"What I mean is that each of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.” Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" (1 Cor 1:12-13)

 

[Guojing]

No. I was responding to someone who apparently thought Jesus teaching didn’t apply to us, but only Paul’s. When I say I'm a Christian and not a Paulian, I believe I agree with Paul:

"What I mean is that each of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.” Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" (1 Cor 1:12-13)

I didn't say Jesus's teaching didn't apply. All I said is that, when it comes to doctrine, you take them from Romans to Philemon.

Jesus's teaching in the 4 Gospels are very useful for learning, just like we learn from the OT. But it is important to view all these teachings in the context of Romans-Philemon. Jesus was a minister of the circumcision, as Romans 15:8 clearly specifies.

 

[timothyu]

Jesus's teaching in the 4 Gospels are very useful for learning, just like we learn from the OT. But it is important to view all these teachings in the context of Romans-Philemon. Jesus was a minister of the circumcision, as Romans 15:8 clearly specifies.

Sounds like He has been demoted from Saviour to rabbi.

 

[Guojing]

Sounds like He has been demoted from Saviour to rabbi.

Jesus himself reminded all of us that, during his earthly ministry, he was sent only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Matthew 15:24

Did he demote himself there too?

 

[timothyu]

Did he demote himself there too?

You are the one that makes it sound that way.

Anyone not Jewish (one of 12 tribes) was seen as Gentile, so still of the House of Israel, the lost sheep. Don't forget the 70 that were sent to the 70 nations/generations of Noah

 

[Guojing]

You are the one that makes it sound that way.

Anyone not Jewish (one of 12 tribes) was seen as Gentile, so still of the House of Israel, the lost sheep. Don't forget the 70 that were sent to the 70 nations/generations of Noah

I am just reading the Bible literally. Matthew-Early Acts is still focused on the nation of Israel, as the rest of the OT since Genesis 12.

 

[timothyu]

I am just reading the Bible literally. Matthew-Early Acts is still focused on the nation of Israel, as the rest of the OT since Genesis 12.

Yes they are the tree but as said 10 of the families of the House of Israel were gentile also. His objective was to reunite them, Jew and gentile (so He came for both).