Why do some denominations not believe in Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

well my personal answer would to be rewarded with the fine coat of many colors but I don't much feel like argueing that

 

[Gibs]

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

We are dead because of SIN.

In case you missed the boat, Jesus does for a fact save sinners. And His Spirit also abides in sinning corrupt weak dishonorable natural people who have called upon Him in faith to save us from this present death.

You put a wrong twist on Paul's admonition, need a few verses to get the context and truth,

At True repentance the old man is killed and a new creature born of His Spirit arises walking after Him above sin, of which now we are dead to.

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Ro 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Ro 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

We continue in sin at our own peril!

 

[Albion]

I'm not misrepresenting anything. Evangelical Protestantism teaches that all one needs to do to be "saved" is accept Christ as their "personal Lord and savior." Like I said, salvation to you is nothing more than a free pass out of Hell. As I asked earlier, what's the point in still having a savior if you're once saved always saved?

Then, how is doing a certain number of good deeds nothing more than a "free pass out of Hell" by the same token?

All you've done above is taken an unmistakable Biblical principle and WORDED it in a way that makes it seem to be something other than it is. Any of us can do that, and it doesn't prove anything (even if it makes the writer feel good).

 

[squint]

You put a wrong twist on Paul's admonition, need a few verses to get the context and truth,

I'm pretty fond of the black and white of the scriptures and yes, our body IS DEAD because of indwelling sin which exactly ZERO of us eliminate or eradicate in this present life.

At True repentance the old man is killed and a new creature born of His Spirit arises walking after Him above sin, of which now we are dead to.

And that is exactly why Paul himself reckoned death a DAILY MATTER.

We factually contend with the tempter internally, every single day.

Sin is not only about us and our own two ears and our sole performance.

SIN is also about another party that assails our minds and hearts CONTINUALLY.

s

 

[squint]

Then, how is doing a certain number of good deeds nothing more than a "free pass out of Hell" by the same token?

Indeed.

 

[Nik0s]

Then, how is doing a certain number of good deeds nothing more than a "free pass out of Hell" by the same token?

Because unlike OSAS, I do not know if I will be saved, no matter how many "good deeds" i do. Like I said in a previous post, we are all unloved to be more Christ like and there is always room for improvement. OSAS throws all of that out the window and is not taught anywhere in scripture or in the early Church.

All you've done above is taken an unmistakable Biblical principle and WORDED it in a way that makes it seem to be something other than it is. Any of us can do that, and it doesn't prove anything (even if it makes the writer feel good).

OSAS is biblical?

 

[Gibs]

None, not one will be saved in continuing sin. To continue in sin is to choose to take part in the second resurrection, not the first.

Of the first resurrection it is stated,

Re 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

To get the idea that osas and then revert back into the old way is forfeiting the prize of eternal life.
That would be "dropping" "the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

 

[Nik0s]

None, not one will be saved in continuing sin. To continue in sin is to choose to take part in the second resurrection, not the first.

Of the first resurrection it is stated,

Re 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

To get the idea that osas and then revert back into the old way is forfeiting the prize of eternal life.
That would be "dropping" "the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

So let's say a person asks Jesus into their heart and becomes saved according to majority Evangelical belief. Later on, that person decides he was wrong and becomes an Athiest and rejects God. Is he still saved? And if not, how can he not be saved according to OSAS?

 

[Gibs]

I'm pretty fond of the black and white of the scriptures and yes, our body IS DEAD because of indwelling sin which exactly ZERO of us eliminate or eradicate in this present life.



And that is exactly why Paul himself reckoned death a DAILY MATTER.

We factually contend with the tempter internally, every single day.

Sin is not only about us and our own two ears and our sole performance.

SIN is also about another party that assails our minds and hearts CONTINUALLY.

s

It is not only the body that will be dead of continuing in sin but the whole of us dead in eternal death. Sin if not rooted out in this life spells us eternal death!

 

[squint]

It is not only the body that will be dead of continuing in sin but the whole of us dead in eternal death. Sin if not rooted out in this life spells us eternal death!

Exactly ZERO believers are sinless. This is reality.

Paul described himself as THE CHIEF OF SINNERS in 1 Tim. 1:15.

I'm sure on the scale of sinners there were worse, but that is how Paul described himself.

Paul also said openly that he did evil and that evil was present with him. That sin indwelt his flesh. That he even had a DEVIL in his flesh and TEMPTATION in his flesh. Does any of this sound SINLESS to you?

Please spare me the living perfection of the sinless flesh that you supposedly have. I dont' tolerate lying well.

s

 

[Gibs]

So let's say a person asks Jesus into their heart and becomes saved according to majority Evangelical belief. Later on, that person decides he was wrong and becomes an Athiest and rejects God. Is he still saved? And if not, how can he not be saved according to OSAS?

Square shooting,

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[Nik0s]

Square shooting,

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Okay, then how can OSAS possibly be true?

 

[Gibs]

Exactly ZERO believers are sinless. This is reality.

Paul described himself as THE CHIEF OF SINNERS in 1 Tim. 1:15.

I'm sure on the scale of sinners there were worse, but that is how Paul described himself.

Paul also said openly that he did evil and that evil was present with him. That sin indwelt his flesh. That he even had a DEVIL in his flesh and TEMPTATION in his flesh. Does any of this sound SINLESS to you?

Please spare me the living perfection of the sinless flesh that you supposedly have. I dont' tolerate lying well.

s

Then you don't believe Jesus cleanses us from sin at True and Full repentance.

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

How will you walk, with Him who loves you or with him who is the destroyer, make that choice Jesus and keep hold of His hand and you will walk in the light and not the darkness!

 

[Gibs]

Okay, then how can OSAS possibly be true?

That assertion never was true and can never be true. Our safety and only safety is continuing in Him faithfully!

 

[squint]

Then you don't believe Jesus cleanses us from sin at True and Full repentance.

No, Jesus did not make anyone sinless, contrary to that gigantic fantasy.

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

How will you walk, with Him who loves you or with him who is the destroyer, make that choice Jesus and keep hold of His hand and you will walk in the light and not the darkness!

You did read Paul's factual conditions that I just listed???

Did Paul LIE to us?

If not, why then are you claiming differently than Paul?

Are you better than an Apostle?

Unlikely.

s

 

[Albion]

Because unlike OSAS, I do not know if I will be saved, no matter how many "good deeds" i do.

No. You are right about that. The "Works Righteousness" approach leaves a person to go through life hoping he'll do enough to satisfy God without ever knowing what it is--and that it can all be wiped out in a moment. Is that what the Gospel teaches? Is that what appeals to you? How does that differ from the previous Hebrew religion that was based upon salvation by keeping the Law, even though the Law could not be kept?

Still in all, calling Christ's work on the Cross a "free pass" is only a snide expression, not an accurate description.

Like I said in a previous post, we are all unloved to be more Christ like and there is always room for improvement.

I'm not sure that I follow that sentence structure, but if it I am reading it correctly, yes, we all agree that there is room for improvement. That has nothing whatsoever to do with "OSAS," although I'd note that it has often been said that those who do believe in "OSAS" seem more inclined towards accepting that point than people who do not.

OSAS throws all of that out the window and is not taught anywhere in scripture or in the early Church.

Well, that's not true. Christ himself taught Eternal Security. That's what you're talking about--whether or not Christ's own are secure in the salvation that was bought for those who love him...and at such a great cost.

OSAS is biblical?

Eternal Security is indeed Biblical. The Gospel of John, for one example, makes this amply clear.

 

[Gibs]

No, Jesus did not make anyone sinless, contrary to that gigantic fantasy.

You did read Paul's factual conditions that I just listed???

Did Paul LIE to us?

If not, why then are you claiming differently than Paul?

Are you better than an Apostle?

Unlikely.

s

For sure He did not MAKE any sinless, but He does at repentance cleanse us from all sin and then He dwelling within is our strength over sinning.

Hear Paul here, it is not I who is misconstruing his words but it is you,

READ THESE VERSES WELL!

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Col 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

There is no let up in walking the way of Christ and as Paul states it is a continual striving as we tend to fall back but He working in you mightily is your strength and stay to overcome all sin.

 

[squint]

For sure He did not MAKE any sinless,

Oh, that's right. You made yourself sinless.

Pardon me while I yawn out.

Hear Paul here, it is not I who is misconstruing his words but it is you,
READ THESE VERSES WELL!

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Col 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

There is no let up in walking the way of Christ and as Paul states it is a continual striving as we tend to fall back but He working in you mightily is your strength and stay to overcome all sin.

None of ANY of the above eliminates the real facts Paul gave us about himself, as previously noted.

Did Paul lie to us?

Reminders from Paul about himself:

-Had sin indwelling his flesh that was NOT HIM. (Romans 7)
-Did EVIL (Romans 7)
-Had EVIL present with him (Romans 7)
-Served the LAW OF SIN in his flesh (again, Romans 7)
-Had a messenger of Satan, (a DEVIL) in his flesh (2 Cor. 12:7)
-Had temptation in his flesh (Gal. 4:14)
-Was the chief of sinners (1 Tim. 1:15)
-Was planted in weakness (1 Cor. 15)
-Was planted in dishonor (1 Cor. 15)
-Was planted in corruption (1 Cor. 15)

There are perfectly logical solutions to these factual presentations above, and that is when we realize that SIN is in fact OF THE DEVIL.

Mankind is not 'alone' in sin. None of us are.

In this fact it is entirely possible that Paul as a child of God was/IS perfect and that the messenger of Satan in Paul was the exact opposite.

So how we view Paul or ourselves or each others from a scriptural perspective is everything.

None of us are alone between our own two ears. God and Satan also play their roles in our MINDS and HEARTS.

s

 

[Gibs]

Oh, that's right. You made yourself sinless.

Pardon me while I yawn out.

None of ANY of the above eliminates the real facts Paul gave us about himself, as previously noted.

Did Paul lie to us?

Reminders from Paul about himself:

-Had sin indwelling his flesh that was NOT HIM. (Romans 7)
-Did EVIL (Romans 7)
-Had EVIL present with him (Romans 7)
-Served the LAW OF SIN in his flesh (again, Romans 7)
-Had a messenger of Satan, (a DEVIL) in his flesh (2 Cor. 12:7)
-Had temptation in his flesh (Gal. 4:14)
-Was the chief of sinners (1 Tim. 1:15)
-Was planted in weakness (1 Cor. 15)
-Was planted in dishonor (1 Cor. 15)
-Was planted in corruption (1 Cor. 15)

There are perfectly logical solutions to these factual presentations above, and that is when we realize that SIN is in fact OF THE DEVIL.

Mankind is not 'alone' in sin. None of us are.

In this fact it is entirely possible that Paul as a child of God was/IS perfect and that the messenger of Satan in Paul was the exact opposite.

So how we view Paul or ourselves or each others from a scriptural perspective is everything.

None of us are alone between our own two ears. God and Satan also play their roles in our MINDS and HEARTS.

s

Yes it is for sure, He is able to make all who will be His Perfect and Paul made it clear.

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

He enables all who will comply!

 

[faroukfarouk]

This issue is not, What does someone's denomination believe? but what do I believe from the Scriptures?

Romans 8.38-39 is a great promise.