South Bound
I stand with Israel.
Salvation comes first. Specifically, regeneration, upon which we are given a new nature that seeks to serve God.
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So I guess it becomes a "What comes first? The chicken or egg?" question.
After reading all the replies ...Why do some denominations, such as the Church of God, not believe in Once Saved Always Saved, even though the Bible clearly outlines that salvation is eternal? That is, salvation is by grace through faith and it is something that cannot be taken from you.
While I believe that grace covers such Christians and that they are genuinely saved for putting their faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ, it must be somewhat troublesome to think that backsliding will result in you becoming detached from the Lord. It seems like it would hinder someone's growth in the Lord rather than promote obedience.
The thing is that God chooses us and we respond. He doesn't let go of us once we're a Child of God.
Sometimes it seems like such denominations haven't viewed the Bible in its entire scope, interpreting. What is your take on this subject?
After reading all the replies ...
Do you believe it?
I wonder if it matters in practice since OSAS believers still want to live holy lives and still want to pray for grace and help in times of need so it seems to me that OSAS isn't making a big difference to the way a Christian lives.
I, by the way, reject it.
Those things are done because of salvation. No one can earn it as the price has been already paid.Uh no. That would mean that devotions, compassion, etc. would EARN you salvation.
Those things are done because of salvation. No one can earn it as the price has been already paid.
That's what I would say.
However, my answer was given to a specific comment by Erose that was obviously incompatible with what you just wrote.
It seems to me that if Abraham's faith was counted as righteousness by God when Abraham offered his son Isaac to God then faith is itself a work that attracts God's approval and acceptance even when one's other works may be less than perfect.
Consider the following statement:
Is that a statement of fact, or only a warning about the consequences of falling away so that you don't do it? You probably say it's the latter, but it's actually the former, even if you cannot get your mind around it. Those who are saved are those who endure. Those who do not endure are obviously not among the saved. It's a statement of fact.
But that verse doesn't refer to these people as ever having been true believers or as having been saved or as having Faith.
The profile that's described there reminds me of people we've all known who get all excited when they hear a powerful sermon or experience some beautiful religious feeling...but it only lasts for a few days and then they are back to their old selves.
None of us can know that with absolute certainty. Jesus said to trust and not worry and that's the most we can do. If we truly believe, our lives will be lived in the same way regardless.
Well, my brother, I see it like this:And here is the issue isn't it. Some people want to believe that all they have to do to be saved is a profession of faith, and bam! keep on living the life you are leading with no more worries. OSAS is an excuse for people to keep on living a sinful life, and feeling good about it. Don't have to follow the commandments. Don't have to feed the hungry or cloth the naked. Its good if you take time to do so, but you don't, oh well, these things really aren't important.
Like you said in another post, luckily there are many OSAS folks who either subconsciously or out of insecurity in their beliefs, do keep the commandments as best as they can, and try to help the hungry and cloth the naked. But it is obvious that these acts are not fruits of the theology of OSAS.
...
The Christian tradition I follow doesn't look too exclusively at a one time conversion experience ("getting saved") as the alpha and omega of Christianity. There is also the ongoing salvational process of theosis/ divinization, sanctification, acquiring of the Holy Spirit, sacraments, liturgical action, compassionately serving others, and walking the Christian path that takes center stage.
MoreCoffee said:So OSAS can't be correct if OSAS depends on somebody believing and then doing nothing thereafter.
But that's not what it says. It doesn't say they had a "feeling," it says they BELIEVE. It doesn't say they mistakenly THOUGHT they believed, it says they BELIEVE. It's the same Greek word used of "genuine" Christians.
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