Why do some christians think that morals come from god?

[Albion]

Abion asked,

"Are the practices of raping little girls, slavery, and antisemitism definitely "wrong" no matter what any human being may think, living or dead, past or present?"

It won't change much for you, but I didn't ask that.

 

[Ariston]

It won't change much for you, but I didn't ask that.

My mistake. It was Joshua rather than you.

 

[orangeness365]

The Bible basically points out that some people have a conscience, and that even though they don't know the law, the law is written on their hearts. This would be the equivalent of having morals without knowing Christianity.

Romans 2:14-16
14For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

 

[workmx]

The Bible basically points out that some people have a conscience, and that even though they don't know the law, the law is written on their hearts. This would be the equivalent of having morals without knowing Christianity.

Romans 2:14-16
14For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

We are back to the problem of the wieght of the ink then?

 

[orangeness365]

We are back to the problem of the wieght of the ink then?

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean the problem of relying on the Bible? I thought the question was why do Christians think atheists don't have morals, and according to the Bible, some people do have a conscience even if they don't know about Christ.

 

[workmx]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean the problem of relying on the Bible? I thought the question was why do Christians think atheists don't have morals, and according to the Bible, some people do have a conscience even if they don't know about Christ.

You said:

law is written on their hearts

So, I would like to know: how much does that ink weigh?

If we can weigh it, we can prove your claim is valid.

 

[orangeness365]

You said:



So, I would like to know: how much does that ink weigh?

If we can weigh it, we can prove your claim is valid.

I think the Bible probably doesn't weigh more than 10 pounds, but I don't have a weighing machine so I'm not sure what the exact measurement is.

 

[workmx]

I think the Bible probably doesn't weigh more than 10 pounds, but I don't have a weighing machine so I'm not sure what the exact measurement is.

You said that "law is written into people's hearts".

I am wondering if we can test that idea.

If ink is used to write in some hearts but not others, we will be able to sperate the ink from the hearts and weigh the ink, right?

I am trying to give you a way in whcih you could test your hypotheis that "law is written into hearts" - that is all.

 

[orangeness365]

hah, yeah, I don't think that you can see the ink physically. I'm not sure you can test that idea or prove it, but haven't some of you been arguing that non Christians can be moral too? Doesn't that mean we are in agreement, even if we can't measure if some people have a conscience and if others do not?

 

[workmx]

hah, yeah, I don't think that you can see the ink physically. I'm not sure you can test that idea or prove it, but haven't some of you been arguing that non Christians can be moral too? Doesn't that mean we are in agreement, even if we can't measure if some people have a conscience and if others do not?

If we cannot test an idea, what should we do with that idea?

 

[orangeness365]

I thought the original question was why do christians think that morals come from God? I guess you can reject the idea if you want. It is only meant to explain the Christian perspective based upon scripture. Honestly though, I don't think it would take a genius to figure out that throughout history, before christianity, there have been saints, sociopaths, and all the grey area in between them.

 

[workmx]

I thought the original question was why do christians think that morals come from God? I guess you can reject the idea if you want. It is only meant to explain the Christian perspective based upon scripture. Honestly though, I don't think it would take a genius to figure out that throughout history, before christianity, there have been saints, sociopaths, and all the grey area in between them.

Leaving the issue of morality aside, just for a sec (don't worry, we will get back to it).

Are you saying that if you cannot confirm an idea, you will accept it anyway?

 

[orangeness365]

are we going to get into these deep philosophical questions? Are you sure those are keys you are typing on? What if thinking doesn't prove you exist? If you can't confirm that certain mathematical principles are true because, say, you can't do the math yourself, then do you accept it anyway because someone else told you they are true? How many ideas can you confirm and how? A lot of ideas are subjective.

 

[workmx]

are we going to get into these deep philosophical questions? Are you sure those are keys you are typing on? What if thinking doesn't prove you exist? If you can't confirm that certain mathematical principles are true because, say, you can't do the math yourself, then do you accept it anyway because someone else told you they are true? How many ideas can you confirm and how? A lot of ideas are subjective.

It is not a deep philosphical issue: just a matter of how you define knowledge.

As for solipism: there is no sloution to it. We have to accept the world as it is presented to us.

And that includes the apparent absence of gods.

 

[orangeness365]

I struggle with my faith in God, but I accept that there are approximately 7 billion people in the world, even though by myself I could probably never track down and count every single one myself.

 

[dcalling]

We are back to the problem of the wieght of the ink then?

LOL you just can't get over the weight. Moral is not something that can be weighted, it is like a computer program (and that is just to get your head around the physical word, because moral is not actually a computer program).

To prove that we don't have moral in nature, you can do it in the inverse, so that a stone/computer doesn't have moral, in that there is no right or wrong in a stone/silicon, it only exists in living creatures.

 

[workmx]

LOL you just can't get over the weight. Moral is not something that can be weighted, it is like a computer program (and that is just to get your head around the physical word, because moral is not actually a computer program).

To prove that we don't have moral in nature, you can do it in the inverse, so that a stone/computer doesn't have moral, in that there is no right or wrong in a stone/silicon, it only exists in living creatures.

Again? Really - why can't you answer the questions?

If a program, how many bytes?

 

[workmx]

Fascinating. Maybe you should talk to your fellow atheists I just quoted from. They seem to think that all our moral values and duties are just an illusion brought about by natural selection.

I was quoting your premise.

And you still have not provided evidence that objective morality exists.

 

[workmx]

I struggle with my faith in God, but I accept that there are approximately 7 billion people in the world, even though by myself I could probably never track down and count every single one myself.

I feel for you and your struggle.

I am just wondering: if you have doubts about something, why not set it aside?

That is what I do: if I cannot find rational reasons to believe that something is true, I suspend belief in that thing.

 

[workmx]

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

First of all, I can't go back a couple hundred years ago and tell American slave owners that slavery is immoral.

Just as you can't go back a few thousand years ago and tell middle eastern people that the Biblically sanctioned slavery they partook in is immoral.

By today's standards slavery is wholly considered immoral (in advanced cultures) ... a few thousand years ago, slavery wasn't considered wholly immoral.

This is evidence for subjective morality, not for objective morality.

If morals were objective, then morals would not fluctuate in the way that they do fluctuate.

Indeed.