Why do SDA preach

mmksparbud · Jul 27, 2021

Major1 said:
How do you know she heard from an angel?

Muhammad said the very same thing and we have the Koran.
John Smith said that very same thing and we have the book of Mormon.

Throw out the Bible and people will say that they heard Gods voice or an angel spoke to them.

2 Corth. 11:14.........
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

The message has to be according to the bible. We are to test all the spirits. What the angels say is tested against what the bible says. The bible is the bottom line. If what an angels says goes against the bible, it is not from God. Also there are signs about the prophet which are like the prophets in the bible had---like no breath, increased strength and then frailty again. What the angel said and her physical manifestations all had to agree with the scriptures----they did. She was examined by Dr's (non-believers) who verified her lack of breath and increased strength. It's all easily found in the EGW website.
Cor 11:14 is one I used extensively with the Mormons.

BobRyan · Jul 27, 2021

Major1 said:
Holy Convocation.

In Hebrew, the word “convocation” means “miqra”, spoken as “Mik-raw” (Strong’s concordance number 4744). In Hebrew, this word means “rehearsal”. What does the word rehearsal mean? Rehearsal is defined as “the act of practicing in preparation for an event”.

Matthew Henry - Lev 23:3
.) It is a holy convocation; that is, "If it lie within your reach, you shall sanctify it in a religious assembly: let as many as can come to the door of the tabernacle, and let others meet elsewhere for prayer, and praise, and the reading of the law

BobRyan · Jul 27, 2021

tall73 said:
We agree he addresses circumcision. However, the Judaizers within the church also emphasized that as we see Paul addressing throughout his letters. He clearly addresses circumcision, but is it from the perspective of outside Jewish critics, or Judaizers?

It is Christian Jews demanding it of gentile Christians as we see in Acts 15:1 and so the non-circumcised "god fearers" in Acts 13, and Acts 17:1-5 and Acts 18:4-7 are gentiles who like Timothy in Acts 16:1-5 are believers in the God of the Bible but are not circumcised. In this case of Acts 16 Paul does have Timothy circumcised when he converts from being a believing gentile - believing in the God of the Bible to being an actual Christian. But the text says Paul considered that act of having Timothy circumcised - an exception.

tall73 said:
In another sense the Judaizers were not officially sanctioned either as the letter in Acts 15 made clear. So either way the body decided on the circumcision issue, etc. indicating that the gentiles did not need to do so.

True but the non-Christian Jews did not even have that problem at all with the non-circumcised gentile "god fearers" attending their services in the synagogues every Sabbath - because this was "an invention" of certain Christian Jews - not a requirement of Gentiles in the Bible.

Adventist Dissident · Jul 27, 2021

tall73 said:
Acts 21 calls that into question. The Jewish believers, even apart form the Judaizers, were zealous for the whole law. James and the bretheren in Jerusalem noted that others were slandering Paul saying he turned Jews in the diaspora from circumcision (he actually opposed gentile circumcision, but that was the accusation.) He was also accused of turning them away from the customs of the Jews. And the proposed plan to set their mind at ease that Paul also followed the law was to assist in men performing vows, which included sacrifices:

Act 21:17 When we had come to Jerusalem, the brothers received us gladly.
Act 21:18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present.
Act 21:19 After greeting them, he related one by one the things that God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
Act 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed. They are all zealous for the law,
Act 21:21 and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs.
Act 21:22 What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
Act 21:23 Do therefore what we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
Act 21:24 take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law.
Act 21:25 But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
Act 21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day he purified himself along with them and went into the temple, giving notice when the days of purification would be fulfilled and the offering presented for each one of them.

The issue in Acts 15 was what to do with the believing gentiles. But the Jewish believers apparently kept on observing all of the law. Though it was made clear that it was the sacrifice of Jesus that saved, not animals. They just pointed to Jesus:

Act 15:11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”

the point is that they would not have forced it on the Gentiles. the Jews on the other hand would have been very demanding.

Adventist Dissident · Jul 27, 2021

this thread has exploded. we are almost 400 post into this. and I see new people joining and new sub conversations starting.

BobRyan · Jul 27, 2021

tall73 said:
Acts 21 calls that into question. The Jewish believers, even apart form the Judaizers, were zealous for the whole law.

The Acts 21 group of Jews "zealous for the law" were converted Jews - converted to Christianity.

Act 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed. They are all zealous for the law,
Act 21:21 and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs.

The interesting thing is that Paul is trying to prove that his message to "converted Christian Jews" does not include the command to stop observing ceremonies - and he is to prove it by engaging in a ceremonial oath - and paying the temple cost for some others to join him.

The issue in Acts 15 was what to do with the believing gentiles. But the Jewish believers apparently kept on observing all of the law.

Indeed the Christian Jews were not ceasing to observe ceremonies in the temple related to the ceremonial law. And it was considered "high treason" by them to tell other Jews not to circumcise their children now that they are Christians.

BobRyan · Jul 27, 2021

tall73 said:
Like the new moon?

Isa 66:23 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD.

True the New Moon is also observed in the New Earth as Isaiah 66:23 states and in the New Earth there will be TWO creation events - one in Genesis 1 and the other in Rev 21.

But that does not stop me today from admitting what most Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations already agree to - which is that all TEN of the TEN commandments are written on the heart under the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8:6-12

mmksparbud · Jul 27, 2021

Major1 said:
Acts 20:9-11........
"And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight. And there were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered together."

Many Sabbatarians actually argue that this meeting took place on the Sabbath, then say it was the Lord's supper, not a common meal. Some over-zealous, but under-learned Sabbath keepers, will state the actual Greek words used in Acts 20:7 & 1 Cor 16:1 actually refer to the weekly Sabbath, not the first day of the week. They say "first day of the week", is a mistranslation. The only ones who say this are those who have no knowledge of Greek. All translations of the Bible say "first" of the week. We know of no Bible of any kind that says "seventh" day of the week. (Note: Seventh-day Adventists don't usually make this argument.)
Source:Acts 20:7 Proof of weekly communion on Sunday (bible.ca)

Lets then dig deeper on this since YOU brought it up.

When closely reading Acts 21:4, 28:4, 28:14, and 20:6 you will see that Paul's habit was to stay 7 days. This meant Paul arrived and left on the first day of the week.

Now hold on because that means he was with the disciples for two Sundays but only one Sabbath.

If I was a Sabbatarian, or a 7th Day adherent, I would surely make sure I spent two Sabbaths and only one Sunday!

In this way Paul stretched his time with the disciples to maximize the number of worship services together.

The record of history is that Christians met together before day break Sunday morning. Here, is a Biblical text that says exactly that! Paul arrived the Sunday before and left the following Sunday morning at 6AM.

Acts 20: 6 + 11 proves, counting backwards, that Paul arrived 7 days before Sunday... or one week earlier on Sunday.

Go figure my friend.

That verse only says they gathered together on a Sun---it does not state we are not to gather every Sunday to worship---which is what was asked for. Now read that verse very carefully---He ;preached until midnight, they broke bread every day, and they broke bread twice that night. They were meeting together as Paull was leaving the next day. This was not a Sunday morning worship---preaching until midnight is not a sermon---that's a filibuster!! It was "upon the first day of the week"--which starts Saturday night at sundown. This meeting took place as Saturday night set in. They met after Sabbath, as Sabbath set and Sunday started. They had an evening meal (broke bread) after which Paul spoke until midnight, he had a lot to say as he was going away. Then they had the episode with the boy falling afterwards they broke bread again--and they continued to talk together until break of day---Which was still Sunday. If Sunday was sacred they would not have gone on a boat trip, and Paul actually walked to his destination instead of going by boat, something else not done on the sabbath.
Act 20:13 And we went before to ship, and sailed unto Assos, there intending to take in Paul: for so had he appointed, minding himself to go afoot.
Act 20:14 And when he met with us at Assos, we took him in, and came to Mitylene.

Act_2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Sorry, but your passage does not say what you think it says. There is nothing there at all about keeping Sunday holy.

BobRyan · Jul 27, 2021

t

tall73 said:
Earlier during the time of judgment on the nations at the time of Israel's exile He spoke of the shaking of the heavens and the earth. Now He speaks of the new heaven and new earth. But it differs from John and Peter's version. For instance, there are still sinners. There is still death, but the whole thing is characterized by extreme fulfillments of the covenant blessings (wild animals not destroying, abundant crops, no one taking the crops, no one destrying, long life, etc.)

It is possible this was a possible fulfillment if they were faithful. Or, as you raise the possibility, and I think that is an interesting discussion, it could be seen as a description of the 1k years.
.

At the time of Isaiah - Israel is not yet doomed to reject the Messiah and so they have two futures but at the time of the New Earth - no matter which future they choose -- all sinners will have been wiped out and the 2nd resurrection will have already taken place.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 27, 2021

tall73 said:
It is about assembly, which the other texts describe.

And those burnt offerings are for all the appointed times. The New Moon is included.

Note this shorter summary statement:

Eze 45:17 It shall be the prince's duty to furnish the burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel.

The sacrificial system ended which includes the burnt offerings, annuals sabbath(s) feasts and animal sacrifices. Col 2:14-16. Hebrews 10:1-9 with Christ as our sacrifice. Isaiah 66:23 is referring to the weekly Sabbath on the New Earth.

BobRyan · Jul 27, 2021

SabbathBlessings said: ↑
Isaiah 66:23 is not about burnt offerings.

amen!

tall73 said:
It is about assembly,

The text does not say "from one assembly to another" or from "one sacred assembly to another" as you appear to suggest.

Rather it states both the weekly Sabbath and the monthly new moon for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

And Heb 10:4-11 informs us that animal sacrifices end at the cross.

tall73 said:
And those burnt offerings are for all the appointed times.

The sacrifices ended at the cross - but Sabbath did not as the Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations admit when it comes to the TEN - and the Sabbath commandment

D.L. Moody -
R.C.Sproul
C.H.Spurgeon
The various confessions of Faith I have listed.

BobRyan · Jul 27, 2021

Major1 said:
Colossians 2:16 —
“Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.”

Matt 7 - "Do not judge lest you be judged" - same rule before the cross as afterwards..."no change"

Col 2 is about not "making stuff up" and also about "Not judging others"

Mark 7:6-13 is about "not making stuff up"
Matt 7 is about "not judging others"

No change.

ozso · Jul 27, 2021

mmksparbud said:
Though Joseph Smith is the writer of their books and Main Prophet---actually, every top Mormon leader is a prophet and can actually reverse his orders. The top leader is considered a living prophet and has final authority during his time in office.
God did not wait----He called every Protestant leader and gave them all a new direction, true---the did not employ an angel for them. Why did He then use one for EGW??? Well, I actually can not give you a reason that either she or the church has given (that I remember)There was light given to someone all the way through the middle ages who responded, (like the Waldenses and others) who was given more light each time, But each one stopped short of the full light and a new one would be called. A woman was not accept very well, I just assume God knew more than usual authority was needed for a small, frail woman among all those well established previous males. She was examined by doctors (non-believers) who examined her during her visions and they attested to the fact she was not breathing during these times. And to her increased strength during these times. This message was actually given to 2 others who refused---one was a black man. He later said he had the same vision but had refused. He was very sorry later and did some preaching on it, as I remember. The other I think, turned away from all religion.

That strikes me as theatrics. The latter half of the 19th century was full of mediums displaying fantastic abilities. I believe that's where the term "parlor tricks" originated.

LoveGodsWord · Jul 27, 2021

Albion said:
But the practice of worship on the first day of the week, the Lord's Day, is referred to in the New Testament, and that precedes Protestantism by over a thousand years. Besides, we have ordinary history showing that Sunday worship has been the standard since ancient times.

There is no scripture in all of Gods' Word that says Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" According to the scriptures the Sabbath is "the Lords day" see Matthew 12:8.

LoveGodsWord · Jul 27, 2021

icedragon101 said:
that is problematic for SDA teaching, most SDA's will ignore that or try to reinterpret that as meaning Sabbath because they don't know what to do with it, because they think it undermines their claim to the Sabbath and mark of the beast. Properly understood there is No conflict and it does not under mine the SDA teaching.

I am not sure why you would think that is problematic at all. Show me the scripture that says Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" there is none. The only scripture that says what day Jesus is Lord of is the Sabbath which is in Matthew 12:8 that says the son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath day. What problem is there?

LoveGodsWord · Jul 27, 2021

Major1 said:
Again......ALL SDA followers such as yourself really place way too much weight on the Saturday-Sunday thing. There are many, many more theological concerns that you could spend your energy on.

According to the scriptures if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11 we stand guilty before God of sin *1 John 3:4. If any of us continue living in a life of known unrepentant sin once we have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17 and reject it, is a pretty BIG deal in God's eyes because we will be in danger of the judgement (see Hebrews 10:26-31). Our opinions do not really matter much here. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to Romans 3:4 and Acts of the Apostles 5:29. There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says Gods' 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day of rest. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many to break God's 4th commandment in favor of man-made teachings. Jesus warns us in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God. Do you believe these words of Jesus?

LoveGodsWord · Jul 27, 2021

Major1 said:
You see.....the SDA religion is a very deceitful false religion as it always twists and changes Scripture to force them to say what it is that they want to believe.

Seventh-Day Adventism began in the mid-nineteenth century, when a Baptist preacher, who later repented of his folly, predicted that Jesus Christ would return in 1844. Miller had over 10,000 followers, many of whom sold their homes, gave away all their earthly possessions, quit their jobs, and waited eagerly for the Lord's return--But the Lord didn't return in 1844! In came Ellen G. White to save the day, claiming that instead of returning to the earth, Jesus entered into the Holy of Holies in Heaven to finish His work of atonement. She termed this event the "Investigative Judgment," a doctrine not found anywhere in the Word of God.

It is from that kind of mind set that we read what we read right here on our web site from SDA believers.

The conversation on worship on Saturday and the Sabbath is nothing more than a "smoke screen" so as to teach that we as believers MUST KEEP THE LAW instead of only pure grace to be saved and stay saved.

Amazing there was not a single thing you posted here that had any truth in it that I could see.

LoveGodsWord · Jul 27, 2021

Major1 said:
Please READ what I posted.............
"I don't think so. I think it is used as a deceptive device until someone tells you that the scripture has nothing to do with Sabbath worship today but in the eternal state! Again.....it has nothing to do with Sabbath worship.....today."

I did not say that it was NOT about worship!

I actually said that it........
"has nothing to do with Sabbath worship today but in the eternal state!"

I did read what you posted and that is why I said I was not sure why you say Isaiah 66:22-23 is not about worship when the scripture plainly says it is about worship. Isaiah 66:22-23 [22], For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, said the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. [23], And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, said the LORD. You may also want to consider the scriptures already posted in post # 174 linked in regards to the Sabbath and worship that disagree with you here.

LoveGodsWord · Jul 27, 2021

Major1 said:
If you are a Jew and want to follow the law of the Sabbath, again...I do not care.

Where does it say in the scriptures you need to be a Jew to keep the Sabbath or anyone of God's 10 commandments for that matter? You do know according to Jesus in Mark 2:27 that the Sabbath was made for all mankind before there was any Jew, Moses, Israel, sin and plan of salvation because there was no sin right? So is what your posting here based on the scriptures? I think not.

Major1 said:
However.....doing or not doing those things has absolutly nothing to do with your fellowship with God. If it makes you feel better as a person...GREAT!

Believing and following what Gods Word says according to the scriptures has everything to do with our fellowship with God and in fact according to the scriptures is a sign if we know God or are deceiving ourselves *see John 15:10; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-9.

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

LoveGodsWord · Jul 27, 2021

Major1 said:
YES it does......in the day of the eternal home we go to n heaven. You can not pull out of CONTEXT a Scripture to make it say what you want it to say to meet your SDA teachings. That is the very worst kind of exegesis! It always leads to error!

The only definition of Gods' "seventh day" Sabbath of the 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin (Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4) is found in God's 4th commandment *Exodus 20:8-11 that defines the Sabbath in the scripture in Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God. These are Gods' Words not mine do you believe it? Exegesis is letting the scriptures speak for themselves.

Why do SDA preach

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