Why do people reject Jesus Christ?

[Emli]

Thank you.

What was your experience like when you hit rock bottom like you said in a earlier post and you had no way out?

Edit: yes, I have tried for sooooo long now... 7 years, and iIstill can't get it. Im getting anhrya

Brother, stop trying and instead just pray the words that GTW27 sent you. Speak them, on your knees, and then let God take care of everything!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

the self-righteous save themselves because only "good people" would want to pal around with God. Of course this reveals a false understanding they have of Christ and God's grace.

5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
(1 John 1:5-7).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

"Be ye holy; for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:16).

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." (1 John 3:7).

"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning." (1 John 3:8).

"For thou, Lord, wilt bless the righteous; with favour wilt thou compass him as with a shield." (Psalms 5:12).

"For the Lord God is a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly." (Psalms 84:11).

"Praise ye the Lord. Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord, that delighteth greatly in his commandments." (Psalms 112:1).

14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." (Revelation 22:14-15).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 15:10).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema (accursed) Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Blind post, haven't read the previous responses.

Some people 1.) think Christianity is nothing more than morality and rules, and 2.) dislike following somebody else's morality and rules.

A lot of the world tends to think this about Christianity. The reason is, an awful lot of Christians think it too. That's how we get people arguing that "I'm a pagan/a wiccan/an atheist/otherwise not a Christian, but I'm just as moral as you are." (Of course they are. The Bible says NOBODY is righteous, so yes, if neither one of us is righteous, that would put us on the same level ground.)

And this is why the world is quick to see Christians as hypocrites when they mess up. They are... IF they claim not to mess up, or preach against a sin they themselves secretly indulge in. But not because they mess up, because everybody does that.

But being a Christian is not about being "good" while all non-Christians are "bad." Being a Christian is only that we acknowledge we're NOT good, without Christ. HE is good.

While it is true that Christianity (or salvation) is not a set of rules alone (in and of itself), and it is a person named Jesus Christ (and the faith we have in Him), we do have commands that we as believers are given to us by Jesus Christ and His followers (after we come to Jesus Christ and His grace by seeking His forgiveness). These are commands and not suggestions. Commands are orders. We are not our own lords and masters. Jesus says that we cannot serve two masters, for we will hate the one and love the other. Grace is not a license for immorality (See Jude 1:4). If it was, then folks can accept Jesus and turn around and continue to murder, rape, steal, and destroy others. Scriptures says God does not call us unto uncleanness but unto holiness (1 Thessalonians 4:7). The grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously, and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). Jesus says if we love him, keep the commandments (John 14:15). Jesus says if we want to abide in his love we are to keep his commandments (John 15:10). Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema (accursed) (1 Corinthians 16:22).

Most churches teach that you can sin and still be saved. They believe Romans 3 teaches that the Christian will always be in some kind of sin in their present life and hence why they need to have a belief alone on Jesus to save them. This is not what Romans 3 is saying. Paul is fighting against "Circumcision Salvationism." See Romans 3:1, Galatians 5:2, Galatians 2:3, Galatians 6:15. Also see Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24.

Most churches today teach that Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23 is saying that a Christian will always be in some kind of sin in their present life (on some level).

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Is it talking exclusively about the Christian's past life of sin or is it talking about both their old and their new life in Christ?

In view of a Christian, this is talking about their old life only. How can I prove it?

Well, if you believe Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 are talking about how Christians sin in the present tense, then you must also believe Romans 3:11 applies to the current present life of a believer. Let's read it.

"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."
(Romans 3:11).

So.... do you believe Christians have no understanding and they do not seek after God?

Paul says in Ephesians 2:2-3 that we used to be sinners as a part of our old life.

This is just one of the many reasons why the belief alone (in Jesus) view is not correct.

 

[friend of]

Most churches today teach that Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23 is saying that a Christian will always be in some kind of sin in their present life (on some level).

Unless you ascribe to sinless perfectionism, the consensus view is that we do retain an aspect of sin that is pervasive all throughout our lives due to our sin nature to which the regenerating power of the Spirit does not fully extinguish in this life.

That said, I still wholeheartedly agree with your post #84

 

[andy b]

Know love know Jesus it's east

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Unless you ascribe to sinless perfectionism, the consensus view is that we do retain an aspect of sin that is pervasive all throughout our lives due to our sin nature to which the regenerating power of the Spirit does not fully extinguish in this life.

That said, I still wholeheartedly agree with your post #84

Well, first, I am not allowed to talk at length about "Sinless Perfectionism" in this section of the forums. In short, what I can say that "Sinless Perfectionism" (i.e. when the Bible uses the word "perfect" generically) it is not talking about salvation.

Second, I believe the Bible teaches that not all sin is the same. Even life teaches us this fact. For surely you do not consider that driving over the speed limit by 5 mph is equivalent as the same sin (breaking of the Law) as murder. Jesus said to the Pharisees that they ignored the WEIGHTIER matters of the Law, like love, faith, justice, and mercy (See Matthew 23:23, and Luke 11:42). Jesus said that if you speak bad words (blasphemy) against the Holy Ghost, it will never be forgiven in this life (or the life to come, i.e. the Millennium). But Jesus says if we speak bad words (blasphemy) against the Son, we can be forgiven of this. 1 John 5:16-17 says there is a sin unto death and a sin not unto death. In context of 1 John 5, this is talking about (a) Confessed sin vs. (b) Unconfessed sin (Also see: 1 John 1:8-10). But 1 John 5:16-17 can be extended to talk of other sins in the Bible, as well. An example of another sin that does not lead unto death would be the command of baptism. 1 Peter 3:21 teaches that water baptism is not a salvation issue (Compare the words "filth of the flesh" with the words "filthiness of the flesh" in 2 Corinthians 7:1). So not all sin is the same. This is why it is important to understand that when God calls us to be perfect, while necessary (because it is a command), it is not a salvation issue.

Three, we do have to overcome grievous sin in this life (like: Murder, theft, lying, hate, unforgiveness, adultery, idolatry, etc.) (See Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11), and other commands that do relate to our salvation (Like spreading the gospel and helping the poor in some way) (See Luke 9:62, cf Luke 9:62, and Matthew 25:31-46). Things are not going to go well for us if we do not overcome these kinds of sins. This would even include me. I am not above God's Word anymore than anyone else here is. A Christian can turn back from following the Lord and His good ways, too. We have to endure to the end to be saved. We have to be faithful to the Lord Jesus Christ and what He commanded us. We are not our own lords and masters. Grace is not a license for us to live somewhat righteous as we see fit, but grace is to live righteous according to God's Word. We obey because it is by faith. The Word of God is something we obey by faith while we trust in Jesus as our Savior.

 

[friend of]

Second, I believe the Bible teaches that not all sin is the same.

Yes, but we should also note that we also validate the Catholic doctrine of mortal and venial sin (which is fine, I think). But then how do we resolve James 2:10? Whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. Wouldn't this verse put all sin on equal ground?

Jesus said that if you speak bad words (blasphemy) against the Holy Ghost, it will never be forgiven in this life (or the life to come, i.e. the Millennium)

I've studied this one quiet a bit and I am confident that the real meaning of blasphemy of the Holy Ghost involves more than mere ill-speaking of the Holy Ghost. Yours is not the consensus view here.

Three, we do have to overcome grievous sin in this life (like: Murder, theft, lying, hate, unforgiveness, adultery, idolatry, etc.),

I agree, but is it us through our own determination and self-will that achieves victory here, or is it not the inner working of the Holy Spirit that gives us power over grievous sin? I err toward the latter, but at the same time I also err toward synergism. Not sure if you'd view that as a contradiction.

We are not our own lords and masters.

We are not our own. We were bought with a price. Do all to the glory of God.

Grace is not a license for us to live somewhat righteous as we see fit, but grace is to live righteous according to God's Word. We obey because it is by faith. The Word of God is something we obey by faith while we trust in Jesus as our Savior.

Total surrender is needed.

 

[Hammster]

I still can’t believe that this is an issue, when it’s simple. The unregenerate won’t believe.

 

[RaymondG]

I still can’t believe that this is an issue, when it’s simple. The unregenerate won’t believe.

There are some who believe themselves to possess the power to regenerate the unregenerated....

 

[bekkilyn]

There are some who believe themselves to possess the power to regenerate the unregenerated....

Is it up to us to determine who is and who isn't truly unregenerate?

 

[Hammster]

Is it up to us to determine who is and who isn't truly unregenerate?

No. I don’t think that’s the argument.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, but we should also note that we also validate the Catholic doctrine of mortal and venial sin (which is fine, I think). But then how do we resolve James 2:10? Whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. Wouldn't this verse put all sin on equal ground?

No. James was talking about the Royal Law as his point of stumbling in one point and not all of God’s laws. He is saying if you stumble in one point in regards to the Royal Law (Which is to love your neighbor, i.e. the equivalent of the Moral Law) you break the whole of God’s laws.

Context:

8 “If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin,
and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.”

(James 2:8-12).​

Nowhere does James say if you stumble in keeping the Lord’s supper in remembrance of Him or baptism, or other commands given to us by the Lord Jesus Christ (like rejoicing when somebody falsely persecutes you).

Again, 1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism is not for salvation.
There is also a sin not unto death (letting us know that not all sin is the same).

I've studied this one quiet a bit and I am confident that the real meaning of blasphemy of the Holy Ghost involves more than mere ill-speaking of the Holy Ghost. Yours is not the consensus view here.

It is what the text plainly says. To go beyond what the Word says is dangerous. You need a specific verse or passage backing up your other view on this. I have heard a long while back that some in the OSAS camp say that the "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" is talking about people who reject the faith. However, this is NOT what the text is saying at all (if that is what you also believe). In regards to turning down the offer of salvation: They are condemned for simply not believing or having faith in Christ (Which is also exceptionally bad). But a person who may turn down the offer of salvation in Jesus Christ one time, does not mean they are forever unforgiven. God can reach them another time and get them to repent and accept Christ at a later date (While they are alive). For God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Look at the text. It says you can commit the unforgivable sin in the world to come.

"...neither in the world to come." (Matthew 12:32).

The world to come.

What is that?

It is the Millennium.
For men can die in the Millennium or the 1,000 year reign of Christ by committing sin. Men can also speak bad words against the Spirit even in the Millennium and still be forever condemned. So this is what it means. There will be no unbelievers in the Millennium because Christ will be reigning there.

I agree, but is it us through our own determination and self-will that achieves victory here, or is it not the inner working of the Holy Spirit that gives us power over grievous sin? I err toward the latter, but at the same time I also err toward synergism. Not sure if you'd view that as a contradiction.

I also believe in Synergism. I also believe God can move and work in our lives. But God is not going to do all the work for us. We also have to endure to the end to be saved. It's what the Bible says. We have to overcome so that we will not have our name blotted out of the book of life. Why? It's what the Bible says. We have to keep ourselves in the love of God. Why? It's what the Bible says. Nowhere does the Bible teach that we are on some kind of automatic pilot whereby we can just sit back and relax and let God do all the work in our lives. We actually have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling as Paul says.

We are not our own. We were bought with a price. Do all to the glory of God. Total surrender is needed.

Indeed. Even our thoughts have to be Christ like and Jesus NEVER justified sin ever. Even the sins that do not lead unto death, I am not encouraging people to even take those sins lightly, either. We have to strive to obey God in everything. For we are to fear God and keep His commandments. For it is the whole duty of man. That is the conclusion of the matter.

 

[friend of]

Thanks for your response. Hope you are well.

We actually have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling as Paul says.

True but then the Immediate verse after says it's God who works in us to wills and act for his good pleasure.

Men can also speak bad words against the Spirit even in the Millennium and still be forever condemned.

Are you pretribulation rapture? I am. I believe speaking blasphemy to God's face during the time He sits and reigns for 1000 years is different than blasphemy when He is not physically present in front of the blaspheming soul. I agree that blaspheming God to His face easily constitutes the unpardonable sin, but I'm not so sure such an act can really happen now. Just in my understanding anyway. Just about every scholar I've read on the subject says it's rejecting salvation in Christ to the grave. We also cannot say for certain of the pharisees actually committed it at that point, or of their souls were merely heading in the direction of total rejection of Christ and the inevitable loss of salvation which would accompany.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Thanks for your response. Hope you are well.



True but then the Immediate verse after says it's God who works in us to wills and act for his good pleasure.



Are you pretribulation rapture? I am. I believe speaking blasphemy to God's face during the time He sits and reigns for 1000 years is different than blasphemy when He is not physically present in front of the blaspheming soul. I agree that blaspheming God to His face easily constitutes the unpardonable sin, but I'm not so sure such an act can really happen now. Just in my understanding anyway. Just about every scholar I've read on the subject says it's rejecting salvation in Christ to the grave. We also cannot say for certain of the pharisees actually committed it at that point, or of their souls were merely heading in the direction of total rejection of Christ and the inevitable loss of salvation which would accompany.

the holy spirit inspires scripture

so adding your own words to scripture, and attributing them to God...

or subtracting words from scripture and denying that they ever came from God...

is an eternal sin that can remove someone from the Eternal BOOK OF LIFE Per the warnings at the very end of Revelation.

 

[friend of]

so adding your own words to scripture, and attributing them to God...

I admittedly don't know everything but that's not going to stop me from studying and learning. I'm sure God will show mercy on his children if they don't get absolutely everything correct about theology in this life.

or subtracting words from scripture and denying that they ever came from God...

Which part of my post are you referring to specifically?

 

[Erik Nelson]

I admittedly don't know everything but that's not going to stop me from studying and learning. I'm sure God will show mercy on his children if they don't get absolutely everything correct about theology in this life.



Which part of my post are you referring to specifically?

you quoted...

Jason0047 said: ↑
Men can also speak bad words against the Spirit even in the Millennium and still be forever condemned.

I was just offering my current understanding of what the eternal sin against the Holy Spirit means.

 

[Emli]

I still can’t believe that this is an issue, when it’s simple. The unregenerate won’t believe.

Is that what you say to an unbeliever who is seeking God? "Sorry, you can't believe, you're unregenerate!" End of story. Or when someone is struggling in their walks or with their faith? "You're probably unregenerate!"

I think it would be better to speak wisdom to them and help them. Understanding how the human heart works from God's perspective is important.

 

[Dave L]

5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
(1 John 1:5-7).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

"Be ye holy; for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:16).

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." (1 John 3:7).

"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning." (1 John 3:8).

"For thou, Lord, wilt bless the righteous; with favour wilt thou compass him as with a shield." (Psalms 5:12).

"For the Lord God is a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly." (Psalms 84:11).

"Praise ye the Lord. Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord, that delighteth greatly in his commandments." (Psalms 112:1).

14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." (Revelation 22:14-15).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 15:10).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema (accursed) Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

This is good but can be taken two ways. Those who are born again live holy lives because it is their born again nature to do so. But the self-righteous will turn it into a system of works thinking they earn salvation by legalistically mimicking holiness.

 

[Emli]

This is good but can be taken two ways. Those who are born again live holy lives because it is their born again nature to do so. But the self-righteous will turn it into a system of works thinking they earn salvation by legalistically mimicking holiness.

I agree.
But unfortunately, there are also those who believe that they are born-again, but aren't. Or who are, but aren't yet walking by the Spirit but are still in the flesh. And there are false doctrines that say that we can be saved yet while still walking according to our old ways, because God has made us right with Him even if we continue in sin. Those who are still walking in the flesh need to start surrendering to Jesus and start living by His will, by doing what it says. James 1:22. After we are born-again, Jesus' commands are what we follow to be conformed into His image. And being conformed into His image is what our new lives are about. We live by the Word of God, which is also what sanctifies us. John 17:17. It isn't what saves us. The Cross saves us. It isn't what makes us obedient. Our new nature makes us obedient. But it is what transforms us, and without that transformation (done by the Holy Spirit) there is no salvation.

 

[Dave L]

A short cut to holiness is reducing the battle within to a struggle between God's Love and hatred rooted in the flesh. Every fork in the road presents an option. Do what love would do. or do what the flesh mostly desires. God is love and Jesus is God. So Jesus is Lord when love rules our choices.