Why do people reject Jesus Christ?

Emli

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Sometimes I think I was better off living life knowing I had come to Jesus, not having a clue what happened to me except my whole life changed. Living life and just having profound God moments and believing He would move in my life, than opening the bible. It was simple, just as much faith, maybe more in my ignorance actually, because I didn't know the why of so many things. Course that is for a private life in Christ and not teaching , if one is to lead then you actually have to know something more.

I met a guy yesterday doing Gods work collecting a few bucks for homeless people and recovering addicts for his church organization. He had that simplistic kind of faith, it was written all over him and it was in his speech as I talked with him. He said the church does teach bible if someone wants it but they aren't bible thumpers. They are saved through faith believers. It was an interesting exchange, he has little head knowledge but strong belief in the risen Christ. And God is using him in a certain capacity.
I believe that God gifts us and teaches us as much as we need depending on our calling. And also depending on how He created us.

I sometimes wish that I could have been created for, in lack of a better word, "lesser" works (which are in no way less than any other work, because it's about love first and foremost). It would be easier. A lot less trials and a lot less pain. A lot less responsibility. And a lot less pride to overcome.
But it's not the way God created me. My life was easier before God let it become complicated. And it needs to be complicated. But I still need the simple, childlike faith. I'm sure that brothers and sisters like the guy you met are there to help us all get back to that, to inspire us to look at Jesus and to walk in love. That has to be our foundation, every step of the way! God always has to remind me that I need to be feeding the poor and caring for widows etc. just as much as I need to be doing other more spiritual works, despite that caring for the poor was something I have dreamed of doing since before I even knew Him. Because that is the heart of God. But it is so easy to lose track of it.
 
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It is a free gift:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

This verse tells us that we don't have to work to earn our salvation. God gives it freely to us. Jesus paid our price.

But yes, the cost seems high to us. We have to give up everything for God, because whoever loses their lives for Him will find it. Matthew 16:25. That is what Jesus paid for, so when we give up our lives for Him, we will receive new lives in Him. We give up the fake rolex and the real Rolex, and Jesus gives us eternal life where we will need no watches nor worldly riches.

If someone preaches a half Gospel that says we only receive but we don't have to give anything up, that would be lying. And if someone preaches a false Gospel that says that we only have to give up but don't receive anything, that is also a false Gospel. The real Gospel of Jesus Christ tells us that we die to self and receive new life in Him, in this life and eternally. That is a free gift that we cannot earn in any way, but we still have to give up everything that is in the way between us and that price.


Actually Ephesians 2:8 is addressed to Gentiles.

The cutting off of Israel sent a tremendous shock through the Ancient Near East.

The Jews tried to recover by insisting on circumcising all the Christians.

The Gentiles insisted on keeping their old status: not circumcised. They reasoned that God was happier with uncircumcised people rather than circumcised. Paul announced not so: All have sinned, there is none righteous, all have fallen short of the glory of God. No one can boast. The same argument of Romans 3:10.

In other words, God included Gentiles in His People, not because they had performed better than Jews, but because of His mercy. It was a gift. They never deserved it. The inclusion.

Ephesians 2:11Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
 
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Emli

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Actually Ephesians 2:8 is addressed to Gentiles.

The cutting off of Israel sent a tremendous shock through the Ancient Near East.

The Jews tried to recover by insisting on circumcising all the Christians.

The Gentiles insisted on keeping their old status: not circumcised. They reasoned that God was happier with uncircumcised people rather than circumcised. Paul announced not so: All have sinned, there is none righteous, all have fallen short of the glory of God. No one can boast. The same argument of Romans 3:10.

In other words, God included Gentiles in His People, not because they had performed better than Jews, but because of His mercy. It was a gift. They never deserved it. The inclusion.

Ephesians 2:11Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
That has nothing at all to do with what I wrote to you. Please adress the topic of the thread. And also, please adress what I wrote in my post if you want to respond to it, and stay within the subject.
 
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Thanks for your response. Hope you are well.

You are welcome. I pray you are doing well in the Lord, too.

True but then the Immediate verse after says it's God who works in us to wills and act for his good pleasure.

True, God does the good work in us. We cannot do any good work ourselves; But after being born again, a believer has to decide to work out their salvation with fear and trembling. A believer has to first surrender to Him. God is not going to work out His salvation with fear and trembling for a believer if they don't submit to Him and His ways. God is not going to obey His commandments for a believer. A believer actually has to do the obeying (synergistically) by agreeing with God's Word to obey. God is not going to force a believer to do anything against their free will. He may nudge us, but He will not force us and it is ultimately up to us to decide of our own free will to continue to serve the Lord or not. We have to endure to the end to be saved. God is not going to do that for a believer. While He does work through us, He never forces us to do anything we don't want to do, my friend. The problem with over-emphasizing how God is the one who changes and works in us over our responsibility to obey God is that it makes it look like God needs to make the first move for us to live holy and or to obey Him. But Jesus said,

"If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." (John 14:23).

You said:
Are you pretribulation rapture? I am.

Yes, I believe it is highly probable that there are going to be two Raptures and we should be watchful, prayerful, and ready at any moment for His call for us to be taken home. The first one is the Pre-Trib Rapture (Which is the call to Marriage, and it will be a wake up call for those who believe in a "sin and still be saved" type belief). The second one (The call after the Wedding, and for those who missed out on the first Rapture) is the Pre-Wrath Rapture that takes place for the "resistance of believers" who were not captured by the Anti-Christ and killed, and or who have yet to be slaughtered before the 6th seal (or the period of time known as the "Day of the Lord" or the "Day of Wrath" whereby God will pour out wrath upon the world; For faithful believers in Christ are not appointed unto wrath.).

I believe speaking blasphemy to God's face during the time He sits and reigns for 1000 years is different than blasphemy when He is not physically present in front of the blaspheming soul. I agree that blaspheming God to His face easily constitutes the unpardonable sin, but I'm not so sure such an act can really happen now. Just in my understanding anyway.

No. It doesn't say anything about this in Matthew 12:31-32. It simply says that the blasphemy (speaking bad words) against the Holy Ghost is an unforgivable sin. There is nothing about what you are talking about in the Bible here. Unless of course you can show me the text that says what you are saying.

You said:
Just about every scholar I've read on the subject says it's rejecting salvation in Christ to the grave.

Jesus said beware of the scribes. The scribes are those who tran-scribed the Law or the Scriptures. God's Word is not learned in the wisdom of men but it is learned by the Spirit and by comparing Scripture with Scripture. John says to the brethren in his epistle that they did not need any man to teach them because they received an anointing that was able to teach them all things. So God's Word is not in what scholars say. Where is their proof that is what the text says? It simply does not say what they are saying. They are making it up. You need an actual verse to prove that is what they are saying. But because they believe in Eternal Security, they are going to make stuff up like that.

You said:
We also cannot say for certain of the pharisees actually committed it at that point, or of their souls were merely heading in the direction of total rejection of Christ and the inevitable loss of salvation which would accompany.

Mark 3:
29 "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit."

Doesn't look like they can ever be forgiven because of what they said here.
 
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Hammster

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Have you ever witnessed to anyone? Have you had to answer all the questions that they ask? Questions that come from their hearts? Have you ever ministered God's love to a broken-hearted brother or sister or unbeliever? Saying "your heart is a stone" isn't enough. And it isn't what God would say either. We need to be taught how to love, and we need our pride broken down so we can be filled by God's love, our wounds healed and our minds renewed. It's a journey, a process, that is so much more than one change within us. God tells us to keep His Word in our hearts. He looks at the heart and judge our intentions. Everything we do flows from the heart. Saying that it is a stone that turns into flesh is not enough, especially not when someone asks what that means.
That’s not relevant to what I said. I’m trying to stay on topic.
 
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What happens after you preach the Gospel to someone? I usually get asked several questions, and God uses me to speak to their hearts to open their eyes. What do you do if that happens?
Still not relevant.

However...

I answer them because I don’t who the elect are.
 
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Emli

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That’s not relevant to what I said. I’m trying to stay on topic.
I created the thread, so shouldn't I decide what the topic is? If you read my OP, you will see that what I asked you is on topic.
 
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This is good but can be taken two ways. Those who are born again live holy lives because it is their born again nature to do so. But the self-righteous will turn it into a system of works thinking they earn salvation by legalistically mimicking holiness.

While that sounds good on the cover, unfortunately that is not how it works. While God does change our hearts and gives us new desires, He does not force us to do good unless we choose daily to obey Him and or surrender to Him. Another problem in those who say that we are saved by a "Belief Alone" and that God regenerates us to do good is that they really do not believe they can actually live holy in this life. They also believe that they sin on some level and they can still be saved because salvation does not depend upon works and or in doing good. But little do they realize that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world. If I was zapped to be a slave to righteousness, then I couldn't learn or be able to be taught what God's grace does for me. God's grace teaches me to deny ungodliness. Teaching is something that is done by free will. But if I am a puppet or a drone, I cannot learn anything. I am a mindless robot that is just fulfilling it's programming.
 
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Emli

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Their questions, but I try to make sure that it’s scripture. It’s the gospel that saves, not my words
Of course. It is by hearing the word of Christ that they are saved. Romans 10:17. But you are the one who God will use to speak His words. By what means do you make sure that it's Scripture?
 
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Of course. It is by hearing the word of Christ that they are saved. Romans 10:17. But you are the one who God will use to speak His words. By what means do you make sure that it's Scripture?
I make sure I use scripture. If they are sheep, it has one purpose. If they are goats, it has another.
 
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At one point does one become saved then? At what point is that threshold reached in God's eyes? @Jason0047

I believe a person is initially saved by God’s grace and not of works when they seek forgiveness of their sins (repent) with Jesus and they believe in His death and resurrection for salvation. Then from that point on (as a part of the faith), they build upon the foundation of the Rock (who is Jesus Christ), by obeying His commandments (works of faith); This would be Commands Jesus gave us in the New Testament (the fruits of repentance). For a tree is known by it’s fruit. This would be the fruit of God by their surrendering to the Lord.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God has chosen us to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief in the truth. It is not just solely one or the other. For how can you read pieces of Scripture like Matthew 7:21, Matthew 7:23, Matthew 7:26-27, and Matthew 12:30, Matthew 12:31-46 and come away with the thinking that our works of faith do not play a part in the salvation process?

Side Note:

Paul argued against “Circumcision Salvationism” (See Galatians 5:2, Romans 3:1, Galatians 6:15, Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24), so this is why he made remarks that implied we are not saved by the Law of Moses or by Works Alone Salvationism. We are not under the Old Contract (that was given to Moses) (The works of the Law or the Torah; For it is the Old Contract). As a result, Paul emphasized the importance and necessity of God’s grace. This grace is how we are initially and ultimately saved, but it is not at the exclusion of works of faith that will naturally follow a person who accepted Christ as their Savior (See Romans 8:13, Titus 1:16, and Hebrews 5:9). Works are merely a part of one’s faith (James 2:17-18, 1 Thessalonians 1:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:11).
 
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Emli

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I make sure I use scripture. If they are sheep, it has one purpose. If they are goats, it has another.
That isn't how it works though. If someone is born-again and has the Spirit, they will understand Scripture. An unbeliever won't. Because without the Holy Spirit, we cannot understand Scripture, since it is spiritually discerned. And no unbeliever has the Holy Spirit yet (of course He may be working in them, but not the way He works in us). So they need us to explain the Gospel to them, using words that they will understand.

I usually say "The Bible says..." or "God has told us (in His Word)..." and then I use the wisdom that God has given me led by the Spirit. Then I share my testimonies and sometimes God provides a miracle if it's His will. I usually see some positive changes in the persons, like a smile or a glimpse of hope in their face. I saw someone's entire face light up today. :) Meanwhile, I pray in the Spirit while I'm listening to the other person. And sometimes God tells me what is in their heart, pointing out a stronghold that needs to be destroyed. Or pain that needs healing.

Try that! You'll get a lot further if you use wisdom and not only Scripture. The Pharisees used Scripture too, but it gave them no life. Because there is no life in the the Bible itself, it is the Spirit that gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6, John 5:39-40. It is Jesus who is the living Word of God, and it is Him we must point to, and it is He they should see when they speak to you. And you are in Him, so walk like Him! In Him you can do all things! Think of the passion that He had, and think of the passion that Paul had. How they lived! :) For God's Glory! Draw from that and dare to be led by the Holy Spirit AND the Word of God! :)
 
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Dave G.

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That isn't how it works though. If someone is born-again and has the Spirit, they will understand Scripture. An unbeliever won't. Because without the Holy Spirit, we cannot understand Scripture, since it is spiritually discerned. And no unbeliever has the Holy Spirit yet (of course He may be working in them, but not the way He works in us). So they need us to explain the Gospel to them, using words that they will understand.

I usually say "The Bible says..." or "God has told us (in His Word)..." and then I use the wisdom that God has given me led by the Spirit. Then I share my testimonies and sometimes God provides a miracle if it's His will. I usually see some positive changes in the persons, like a smile or a glimpse of hope in their face. I saw someone's entire face light up today. :) Meanwhile, I pray in the Spirit while I'm listening to the other person. And sometimes God tells me what is in their heart, pointing out a stronghold that needs to be destroyed. Or pain that needs healing.

Try that! You'll get a lot further if you use wisdom and not only Scripture. The Pharisees used Scripture too, but it gave them no life. Because there is no life in the the Bible itself, it is the Spirit that gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6, John 5:39-40. It is Jesus who is the living Word of God, and it is Him we must point to, and it is He they should see when they speak to you. And you are in Him, so walk like Him! In Him you can do all things! Think of the passion that He had, and think of the passion that Paul had. How they lived! :) For God's Glory! Draw from that and dare to be led by the Holy Spirit AND the Word of God! :)
Emli, you just keep banging one after another out of the park ! I needed to hear this today, thank you.
 
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Emli

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Emli, you just keep banging one after another out of the park ! I needed to hear this today, thank you.
You're welcome. But trust me, it's not me, it's all God. I can do nothing without Him. :)
 
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Dave G.

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You're welcome. But trust me, it's not me, it's all God. I can do nothing without Him. :)
Yes I know that works ! At 6:30 tonight I'm watching the service from Baltimore online ( our home base church) and I'm praying I get some fire burning, just off today all day long.
 
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That isn't how it works though. If someone is born-again and has the Spirit, they will understand Scripture. An unbeliever won't. Because without the Holy Spirit, we cannot understand Scripture, since it is spiritually discerned. And no unbeliever has the Holy Spirit yet (of course He may be working in them, but not the way He works in us). So they need us to explain the Gospel to them, using words that they will understand.

I usually say "The Bible says..." or "God has told us (in His Word)..." and then I use the wisdom that God has given me led by the Spirit. Then I share my testimonies and sometimes God provides a miracle if it's His will. I usually see some positive changes in the persons, like a smile or a glimpse of hope in their face. I saw someone's entire face light up today. :) Meanwhile, I pray in the Spirit while I'm listening to the other person. And sometimes God tells me what is in their heart, pointing out a stronghold that needs to be destroyed. Or pain that needs healing.

Try that! You'll get a lot further if you use wisdom and not only Scripture. The Pharisees used Scripture too, but it gave them no life. Because there is no life in the the Bible itself, it is the Spirit that gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6, John 5:39-40. It is Jesus who is the living Word of God, and it is Him we must point to, and it is He they should see when they speak to you. And you are in Him, so walk like Him! In Him you can do all things! Think of the passion that He had, and think of the passion that Paul had. How they lived! :) For God's Glory! Draw from that and dare to be led by the Holy Spirit AND the Word of God! :)
Well, you can stick with your man-centered approach. I’ll stick with scripture.
 
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That isn't how it works though. If someone is born-again and has the Spirit, they will understand Scripture. An unbeliever won't. Because without the Holy Spirit, we cannot understand Scripture, since it is spiritually discerned. And no unbeliever has the Holy Spirit yet (of course He may be working in them, but not the way He works in us). So they need us to explain the Gospel to them, using words that they will understand.

I usually say "The Bible says..." or "God has told us (in His Word)..." and then I use the wisdom that God has given me led by the Spirit. Then I share my testimonies and sometimes God provides a miracle if it's His will. I usually see some positive changes in the persons, like a smile or a glimpse of hope in their face. I saw someone's entire face light up today. :) Meanwhile, I pray in the Spirit while I'm listening to the other person. And sometimes God tells me what is in their heart, pointing out a stronghold that needs to be destroyed. Or pain that needs healing.

Try that! You'll get a lot further if you use wisdom and not only Scripture. The Pharisees used Scripture too, but it gave them no life. Because there is no life in the the Bible itself, it is the Spirit that gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6, John 5:39-40. It is Jesus who is the living Word of God, and it is Him we must point to, and it is He they should see when they speak to you. And you are in Him, so walk like Him! In Him you can do all things! Think of the passion that He had, and think of the passion that Paul had. How they lived! :) For God's Glory! Draw from that and dare to be led by the Holy Spirit AND the Word of God! :)

I usually agree with you Emli. In this case, when you say there is no life in the Bible, I am going to have to disagree because they are the very words of God.

“...the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” (John 6:63).

“Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.” (John 6:68).

23 “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.” (1 Peter 1:23-25).

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” (Romans 10:17).

“The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.“ (Psalms 119:130).

“Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.” (James 1:18).

21 “Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
(James 1:21-22).

God’s words are spiritual and they can give life. They lead us to Him. For there would be no faith without the Holy Bible. It is holy. The Bible has proven itself to be of divine origin that points us to Jesus. In the Parable of the Sower the seed that men receive from the sower (Jesus) are the words of God (the gospel message of salvation). Jesus was not correcting the Pharisees for saying the Scriptures do not lead one to having everlasting life; He was saying that they knew this truth and yet did not catch on to the fact that those very Scripture verses testified of Him.
 
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