Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?

[stuart lawrence]

Good proof-text snippet quote of course - but Romans 6 actually refutes your doctrine.

So someone posts:

Christians are not under the law roms 6:14


and you respond with the above???

So you think Paul refutes his own doctrine in the same chapter?

This is ludicrous.

I could ask you what Paul means by not being under law, but you wouldn't respond would you.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Aside from endlessly repeating false accusations - did you have a Bible comment? something compelling? Substantive?

You are the one making false accusations.
You claim Paul wrote an errant doctrine in rom6:14:

For sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace.

You believe in the same chapter Paul wrote the above he refutes the belief the christian is not under the law

 

[stuart lawrence]

Did that turn out to be true?

Of course not. .
They believe as you do, the Christian is under law. It appears none of you know what Paul meant when he stated the believer is NOT under law

 

[stuart lawrence]

When Paul states the christian is not under law he means they are not under a law of righteousness:

Christ is the end of the law, UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS for everyone who believeth rom10:4

In effect many churches believe at the point of conversion this is true. They will tell you, you have no justification/ righteousness before God of observing the law. In the next breath they will tell you I you want to get to heaven you must obey the TC/law


There is none so blind as them that cannot see

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Of course not. .
They believe as you do, the Christian is under law. It appears none of you know what Paul meant when he stated the believer is NOT under law

And it before hand is evident you don't know what Paul meant when he stated "ALL" --the believer included-- "IS under the Law for as long as he lives."

 

[stuart lawrence]

It doesn't reflect well on me that I have spent so long in this thread.

You people have a form of religion, not led of the Holy Spirit into truth. Your religion is devoid of that leading.
You cling to the OC at heart. All you have is the letter / written code without understanding the spiritual truth that letter contains. . Religion devoid of the Holy Spirit impacting your life is lifeless/ empty religion.

I am humbled and grateful my blindness was removed as a teenager. I wish yours could be too

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

When Paul states the christian is not under law he means they are not under a law of righteousness:

"The righteousness of the righteous shall NOT deliver him in the day of his : RIGHTEOUSNESS ... NEITHER shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he SINNETH (transgress the Law of God)!"

Whether he does righteousness or sins, the poor soul though righteous is as under the Law as the worst of the wicked.

 

[stuart lawrence]

It

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

See the difference between....

Christ is the end of the law, UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS for everyone who believeth rom10:4

....and,
Romans 10:4, "For the end of the Law is Christ unto righteousness to everyone who believes."

Saw the difference? A single fraudulent misplaced comma!

The day the end of the Law stops to be Christ unto righteousness to everyone who believes in Him, that day, it will be the last of the Law; not a day before.

(Just in case anyone may suggest I misrepresent Romans 10:4, here you can see the Text for yourself, "For the end of the Law [télos gar nómou] is Christ [Xristós] unto righteousness [eis diakosúnehn] to everyone who believes [pantí tohi pisteúonti].")

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

It doesn't reflect well on me that I have spent so long in this thread.

You people have a form of religion, not led of the Holy Spirit into truth. Your religion is devoid of that leading.
You cling to the OC at heart. All you have is the letter / written code without understanding the spiritual truth that letter contains. . Religion devoid of the Holy Spirit impacting your life is lifeless/ empty religion.

I am humbled and grateful my blindness was removed as a teenager. I wish yours could be too

Displayed evidently by yourself, here <we> now see it was in fact the Law, in fact the Fourth Commandment, that has been haunting you like your own shadow for all your life, and that you have been unable to leave it behind; it's biting fast at your heel and clings to you like your skin. "For as long as he lives..." said Paul.

Now, as the inevitable result of it having been the Law that like a gang of hyenas in the night all his life has haunted him thus, customarily our retiring judge has given few final condemning verdicts as last bow to court. I hope.

 

[BobRyan]

Of course not. .
They believe as you do, the Christian is under law. It appears none of you know what Paul meant when he stated the believer is NOT under law

You are snippet-not-quoting extreme proof-texting from a tiny sliver of Romans 6. If you do that then we are just going to actually "look" at Romans 6 you know.

Are you ready for that?

Romans 6 requires obedience to the word of God - under grace.

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! IN fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

And 1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT -- still

In Romans 3:19-20 Paul explains the term "UNDER the LAW" means condemned by the LAW as a sinner and going to hell.

So then in Romans 6 the point is made for those who are under the Gospel and no longer going to hell. Does Paul say in Romans 6 that continued rebellion against the LAW of God is going to work for Christians??

So then Romans 6 "Under the LAW" vs "Under Grace"

Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.



1 Cor 6
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Cor 7:19 .. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

Would your claim hold up to a close review "of the details" as seen in that quote??

 

[stuart lawrence]

You are snippet-not-quoting extreme proof-texting from a tiny sliver of Romans 6. If you do that then we are just going to actually "look" at Romans 6 you know.

Are you ready for that?



Would your claim hold up to a close review "of the details" as seen in that quote??

You'd better hope not being under law holds up to anything, because:

All who rely on observing the law are under a CURSE, for it is written. CURSED is everyone who does not continue to do EVERYTHING written in the book of the law.
CLEARLY NO-ONE is justified before God by the law, because. The righteous will live by faith. The law is not based on faith
Gal3:10&11

For whoever keeps the whole law yet stumbles at JUST ONE POINT is guilty of breaking ALL of it
James 2:10

For if those who live by law are heirs faith has no value and the promise is worthless, because LAW BRINGS WRATH
Rom4:14

 

[rturner76]

Good proof-text snippet quote of course - but Romans 6 actually refutes your doctrine.

as we can see here -
Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

We can do this with each of the chapters in your list - if you like

Matthew 22:34-40
34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’c 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’d 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

It is good that the verses quoted have been highlighted. This is a clear illustration of the difference between being under Grace (the first two commandments) and being under the Mosaic Law (613 Commandments).

Above it states: "Shall we continue to sin because we are not under the law?"
>We have established there are two great commandments (above) so we know that to not show love toward God or your neighbor is a sin. Therefore it states "shall we continue to sin (not show love to God or our neighbor) BECAUSE we are NOT (as in no longer) under the law"

Again:
What you see as sin against the Old Testament Law is actually sin against the new Covenant law which is "Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind and Love your neighbor as yourself" as you will notice, there is not one of the ten commandments that is not covered by these two laws.

Therefore when it says:
"Shall we continue to sin that grace may abound?" in chapter 6, it was written to contrast what was written in chapter 5 where it seemed like Grace was an open invitation to sin.
5:20 so that transgression might increase but, where sin increased, grace overflowed all the more,

See, the new covenant is Grace through Faith in Christ's work on the cross and we strengthen that faith by following the two great commands of Christ to love God and love our neighbor.

 

[stuart lawrence]

All of the following relate to not being under the law, an awfull lot of snippets!!

Rom3:20, rom3:21&22, rom3:28, rom4:5, rom4:7&8, rom4:14, rom6:14, rom7:4-6, rom9:30-33, rom10:4, rom13:9&10, 2cor3:7-10, 2cor5:21, gal2:15-18, gal2:21, gal3:10&11, gal3:18, gal3:23-25, gal5:4, gal6:2, eph2:8&9, phil3:3, phil3:9, col1:22&23, col2:14, eph2:15,heb9:25&26heb10:10, heb10:14 heb10:38&39.

 

[mmksparbud]

Are we really going to have to quote all the verses stating how we are to keep the law of God? That much time, I don't have right now! It would dwarf your list!!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Are we really going to have to quote all the verses stating how we are to keep the law of God? That much time, I don't have right now! It would dwarf your list!!

Please quote as many verses as you can from the NT ( covenant) that states christians are to follow the written code rather than the holy spirit.
Quote as many verses as you can that states we are justified by observing the law.

In my bible it says the christian is to die to the law in order that they may live for God.
Do you live for God?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Are we really going to have to quote all the verses stating how we are to keep the law of God? That much time, I don't have right now! It would dwarf your list!!

And please quote as many verses as you can once the NC is in operation that specifically state the words:
You must obey the TEN Commandments

I cant find any in my bible, how many are in yours?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Are we really going to have to quote all the verses stating how we are to keep the law of God? That much time, I don't have right now! It would dwarf your list!!

Anyway, thanks for confirming you live under the law, alongside another sda member who believes the same. I guess all sda members live under the law

 

[mmksparbud]

That is all so absurd as you have been shown over and over---0the commandments are the commandments--period. and there are 10 of them, not 9, take His name in vain and you will oay the price if you do not repent. Being a repentant sinner is far from being an unrepentant one. We keep His commandments because we saved, not in order to be saved,, my condolences for your inability to grasp the concept, but if you pray about it you will be given the light if you ask honestly. The saved are not saved by their works, but the lost are judged by theirs. It's not rocket science.

 

[stuart lawrence]

So my brothers you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead. Rom7:4

But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law so That we serve in the new way of the Spirit, not the old way of the written code
Rom7:6

For sin shall mo longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace
Rom6:14


Tell me you who want to be under the law.....
Gal4:21

For through the law I died to the law so I might live for God
Gal2:19

From what sda members state in this thread i guess they believe Paul was a false apostle