Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?

[stuart lawrence]

I already gave you Ephesians 6:2 -- and we both know it.
I already gave you 1 Cor 7:19 -- and we both know it.
I already gave you Rev 14:12 - and we both know it.
I already gave you Hebrews 8:6-10 -- and we both know it.
I already showed you the teaching of Christ in Mark 7:6-13 -- and we both know it.
I already showed you the teaching of Christ on the subject "which commandments" in Matt 19 -- and we both know it.

I already gave you James 2:8-12 -- and we both know it.

What's the point in responding to something you then cannot address.

There is not one verse of scripture once the NC has come into operation that specifically states:
You must obey the TEN Commandments.

You cannot oppose that statement, so why respond to it?

 

[BobRyan]

There is not one verse of scripture once the NC has come into operation that specifically states:
You must obey the TEN Commandments.

Already refuted -- since your statement does not survive the actual reading of this scripture

I already gave you Ephesians 6:2 -- and we both know it.
I already gave you 1 Cor 7:19 -- and we both know it.
I already gave you Rev 14:12 - and we both know it.
I already gave you Hebrews 8:6-10 -- and we both know it.
I already showed you the teaching of Christ in Mark 7:6-13 -- and we both know it.
I already showed you the teaching of Christ on the subject "which commandments" in Matt 19 -- and we both know it.

I already gave you James 2:8-12 -- and we both know it.

 

[BobRyan]

1 John 5:2-3 says LOVE for God is shown by keeping His Commandments.

John 14:10 says God's commands are Christ's and that Christ has none of His own.
John 12:48-50 says God's Commands are Christ's and that Christ has none of His own

Exodus 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

 

[BobRyan]

Sin is "DEFINED" as "transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 even in the NT.

And James 2:8-12 is ALSO in the NT. Telling us that the same 10 COMM still are binding.

As does Ephesians 6:2 make that point.

As does Mark 7:6-13 make that point

Even pro-sunday scholars admit to this same Bible detail

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

 

[BobRyan]

more - discussion --

The Mosaic Law was given to the Israelites.
The New Covenant is for us today and is different to the Mosaic Covenant.

The New Covenant is in Jeremiah 31:31-33 and is given specifically "to the House of Israel and the house of Judah".

Bible details matter.

All the laws, including the ceremonial law of the Sabbath, no longer apply as laws.

Until you read the Bible.

In the NT - sin is still "defined" this way "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 NKJV

notice how explicitly NT authors not only affirm the Commandments of God - but quote from them to help those who might wonder if the TEN Commandments should be included?

================= notice the "Bible details"


In Matt 22 Jesus affirms OT - LAW and scripture
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
Matt 22 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Matt 22
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ (Deut 6:5) 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ (Lev 19:18) 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

The firm foundation for the LAW and the prophets - LOVE.

TEN COMMANDMENTS AFFIRMED in NT

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said;Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life 17 And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments; 18 Then he *said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31



Any part of scripture read could fall under that title.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

=================================

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.


Rom 13 NKJV
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments,
“You shall not commit adultery,”
“You shall not murder,”
“You shall not steal,”
“You shall not bear false witness,”
“You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Rom 13 HCSB - Holman Bible
8 Do not owe anyone anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 The commandments:
Do not commit adultery;
do not murder;
do not steal;
do not covet;
and whatever other commandment—all are summed up by this: Love your neighbor as yourself.
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Love, therefore, is the fulfillment of the law.



Romans 2
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law.

13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
...
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

"Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
"ALL have sinned" Romans 3:23

Both Jews AND Gentiles are explicitly included in Romans 2 --
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.


Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

============================

"the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Sunday Christians: What is 'mankind'? Who is 'mankind'?
Sabbatarian Christians: Are you 'mankind'?

As opposed to what? "Turtles"?? What is your point? is it "ALL mankind?"

Notice that Is 66 says this is in the NEW Earth - a Revelation 21:1-3 point in time where there are no wicked left among "mankind".

Is 56:1-8 gentiles specifically blessed for keeping the weekly Sabbath.
Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"
Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind"

The Law wasn't changed. It was fulfilled in Christ. Does the New Testament (New Covenant) mean anything to you?

Jeremiah 31:31-33 , Hebrews 8:6-10 ... it means the "LAW is written on the heart and mind" and "ESTABLISHED by our faith" Rom 3:31 as Paul said

 

[rturner76]

And Paul demands that we admit that the TEN commandments are included in the LAW of God in Eph 6:2 in Romans 13, in Romans 7 as does James demand it in James 2, as does Christ demand it in Matthew 19 -- as we have show a few zillion times on this thread.

Please give us "The Bible" instead, if you looking to present a compelling POV.




As we saw in Mark 7:6-13

How then does God view this idea of editing/downsizing one of the "Commandments of God"??


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

It based on "He who said"


Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10

And in His frequently upholding of Lev 19:18 "Love our neighbor as yourself"
And to "Love God with all your heart " Deut 6:5


These are the basics,

Matthew 22:37
Jesus declared, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

Mark 12:30
and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'

Mark 12:33
and to love Him with all your heart and with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself, which is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."

Luke 10:27
He answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' and 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

Deuteronomy 4:29
"But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul.

Deuteronomy 10:12
"Now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require from you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and love Him, and to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul

=====

all of those scriptures stated - before the cross. And none of them deleting the TEN commandments

Even your own Pope John Paul II admits that the TEN Commandments are for all mankind - the moral law of God.

so also does your own CCC. This is not the part where you are supposed to differ. (Though we do have many differences with the RCC - the Bible TEN commandments as the moral law of God for all mankind -- is not one of them)... Hence my signature line.






Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10

And in His frequently upholding of Lev 19:18 "Love our neighbor as yourself"
And to "Love God with all your heart " Deut 6:5


hint: Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5 did not "delete Exodus 20" when they were given in the OT nor when they are quoted in the NT. I think we all can see that.

And even your own Pope John Paul II, and your own CCC admit the TEN Commandments (all ten) remain included in the moral law of God binding on all mankind. I think we both know that.

your denomination and mine - have some points of difference. But this Bible detail that all TEN of the TEN Commandments are still included in the moral law of God and are still binding on all mankind - even binding on the people of God, is not one of those differences.



Answer: Lev 19:18 is one of the 613 in the OT and it is one of the 1050 in the NT as we see in Matt 22.

What is your point?

Here is another one --

"Do not take God's name in vain" is one of the 613 in the OT but not one of the 1050 in the NT.



Hint: That was me presenting scripture.

Less fiction - more reality please.

Yes we do follow commandments, however, it is not so we will be justified, that is done by faith, it is because we are justified that we follow the commandments.

28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,
30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.
31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
Romans 3

 

[stuart lawrence]

Already refuted -- since your statement does not survive the actual reading of this scripture

I already gave you Ephesians 6:2 -- and we both know it.
I already gave you 1 Cor 7:19 -- and we both know it.
I already gave you Rev 14:12 - and we both know it.
I already gave you Hebrews 8:6-10 -- and we both know it.
I already showed you the teaching of Christ in Mark 7:6-13 -- and we both know it.
I already showed you the teaching of Christ on the subject "which commandments" in Matt 19 -- and we both know it.

I already gave you James 2:8-12 -- and we both know it.

You cant refute it unless you can bring forth a verse of scripture that ACTUALLY states:
You must obey the TEN commandments.
You have no such verse to quote once the NC is in operation

 

[stuart lawrence]

more - discussion --



The New Covenant is in Jeremiah 31:31-33 and is given specifically "to the House of Israel and the house of Judah".

Bible details matter.



Until you read the Bible.

In the NT - sin is still "defined" this way "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 NKJV

notice how explicitly NT authors not only affirm the Commandments of God - but quote from them to help those who might wonder if the TEN Commandments should be included?

================= notice the "Bible details"


In Matt 22 Jesus affirms OT - LAW and scripture
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
Matt 22 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Matt 22
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ (Deut 6:5) 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ (Lev 19:18) 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

The firm foundation for the LAW and the prophets - LOVE.

TEN COMMANDMENTS AFFIRMED in NT

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said;Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life 17 And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments; 18 Then he *said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31



Any part of scripture read could fall under that title.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

=================================

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.


Rom 13 NKJV
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments,
“You shall not commit adultery,”
“You shall not murder,”
“You shall not steal,”
“You shall not bear false witness,”
“You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Rom 13 HCSB - Holman Bible
8 Do not owe anyone anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 The commandments:
Do not commit adultery;
do not murder;
do not steal;
do not covet;
and whatever other commandment—all are summed up by this: Love your neighbor as yourself.
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Love, therefore, is the fulfillment of the law.



Romans 2
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law.

13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
...
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

"Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
"ALL have sinned" Romans 3:23

Both Jews AND Gentiles are explicitly included in Romans 2 --
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.


Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

============================

"the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23




As opposed to what? "Turtles"?? What is your point? is it "ALL mankind?"

Notice that Is 66 says this is in the NEW Earth - a Revelation 21:1-3 point in time where there are no wicked left among "mankind".






Jeremiah 31:31-33 , Hebrews 8:6-10 ... it means the "LAW is written on the heart and mind" and "ESTABLISHED by our faith" Rom 3:31 as Paul said

Still quoting the person you believe preached a false gospel message I see
Oh the irony of it!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Sin is "DEFINED" as "transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 even in the NT.

And James 2:8-12 is ALSO in the NT. Telling us that the same 10 COMM still are binding.

As does Ephesians 6:2 make that point.

As does Mark 7:6-13 make that point

Even pro-sunday scholars admit to this same Bible detail

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

Give us just one verse of scripture from anywhere in the NT where it states observing a set Saturday Sabbath is binding for gentiles

 

[stuart lawrence]

1 John 5:2-3 says LOVE for God is shown by keeping His Commandments.

John 14:10 says God's commands are Christ's and that Christ has none of His own.
John 12:48-50 says God's Commands are Christ's and that Christ has none of His own

Exodus 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

And this is his command. To believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ and to love one another as he commanded us
1 john3:23

 

[BobRyan]

You cant refute it unless you can bring forth a verse of scripture that ACTUALLY states:
You must obey the TEN commandments.
You have no such verse to quote once the NC is in operation

Already refuted -- since your statement does not survive the actual reading of this scripture

I already gave you Ephesians 6:2 -- and we both know it.
I already gave you 1 Cor 7:19 -- and we both know it.
I already gave you Rev 14:12 - and we both know it.
I already gave you Hebrews 8:6-10 -- and we both know it.
I already showed you the teaching of Christ in Mark 7:6-13 -- and we both know it.
I already showed you the teaching of Christ on the subject "which commandments" in Matt 19 -- and we both know it.

I already gave you James 2:8-12 -- and we both know it.

i am not trying to take away your free will option to ignore scripture in these cases -- just pointing out that even your own pro-sunday scholars will admit to this same set of Bible details that you turn a blind-eye towards

 

[stuart lawrence]

Already refuted -- since your statement does not survive the actual reading of this scripture

I already gave you Ephesians 6:2 -- and we both know it.
I already gave you 1 Cor 7:19 -- and we both know it.
I already gave you Rev 14:12 - and we both know it.
I already gave you Hebrews 8:6-10 -- and we both know it.
I already showed you the teaching of Christ in Mark 7:6-13 -- and we both know it.
I already showed you the teaching of Christ on the subject "which commandments" in Matt 19 -- and we both know it.

I already gave you James 2:8-12 -- and we both know it.

Nonsense!
You haven't refuted it
You have no scripture that specifically states:
You must obey the TEN commandments

not one.
That is what you were asked for

 

[stuart lawrence]

Already refuted -- since your statement does not survive the actual reading of this scripture

I already gave you Ephesians 6:2 -- and we both know it.
I already gave you 1 Cor 7:19 -- and we both know it.
I already gave you Rev 14:12 - and we both know it.
I already gave you Hebrews 8:6-10 -- and we both know it.
I already showed you the teaching of Christ in Mark 7:6-13 -- and we both know it.
I already showed you the teaching of Christ on the subject "which commandments" in Matt 19 -- and we both know it.

I already gave you James 2:8-12 -- and we both know it.

i am not trying to take away your free will option to ignore scripture in these cases -- just pointing out that even your own pro-sunday scholars will admit to this same set of Bible details that you turn a blind-eye towards

You cant provide a single verse of scripture That states:
You must obey the TEN commandments.
You cant provide a single scripture That states:
It is binding on gentiles to observe a set saturday Sabbath.
You cant provide a single scripture That states:
The christian is under a law of righteousness

The gospel according to bob Ryan is written nowhere once the NC is in operation

 

[stuart lawrence]

So what must you do?

Write out huge swathes of scripture with faulty exegesis to cover up your lack of scripture to support your personal beliefs

 

[stuart lawrence]

The truth is, those who insist you fully obey the letter/ written code break the second most important commandment every time they do so and are guilty of the hypocrisy the Pharisees were in matt ch23

They show no love for their fellow man for they insist they must obey the letter that kills and the ministry of death and condemnation. So they crush you with impossible demands. Demands they themselves do not even try to keep
Hence, the hypocrisy of the Pharisees as clearly and repeatedly laid out in matt ch23

 

[BobRyan]

So what must you do?

Write out huge swathes of scripture with faulty exegesis to cover up your lack of scripture to support your personal beliefs

utterly false - as the posts show. Your response is to a post where nothing is quoted at all for "faulty exegesis' it is merely the "existence" of the text reference that is cited - and is all that it takes for the sort of ad hominem false factless accusations you offer.

================== in summary

You make up positions for others to believe -- then ad hominem condemn others for supposedly believing whatever stuff you make up for them to believe.

That sort of nonsense may work 'for you' - but the unbiased objective bible students that come to this thread will not fall for it.

Your argument that some other board might endorse that sort of accuser-of-the-brethren tactic is not doubted.. I just don't think it will work here.

 

[stuart lawrence]

utterly false - as the posts show. Your response is to a post where nothing is quoted at all for "faulty exegesis' it is merely the "existence" of the text reference that is cited - and is all that it takes for the sort of ad hominem false factless accusations you offer.

================== in summary

You make up positions for others to believe -- then ad hominem condemn others for supposedly believing whatever stuff you make up for them to believe.

That sort of nonsense may work 'for you' - but the unbiased objective bible students that come to this thread will not fall for it.

Your argument that some other board might endorse that sort of accuser-of-the-brethren tactic is not doubted.. I just don't think it will work here.

You have not one verse of scripture that states:
You must obey the TEN commandments
Not one verse of scripture that states:
It is binding for gentiles to observe a set Saturday Sabbath.
Not one verse of scripture that states:
The christian is under a law of righteousness.

Therefore the gospel according to bob Ryan is not stated once the NC is in operation.

There is much scripture that plainly contradicts your personal beliefs.
So what must you do?
Ignore all the scripture that proves your beliefs false, and write out huge swathes of scripture with faulty exegesis in order to overturn the plainly written word

 

[stuart lawrence]

utterly false - as the posts show. Your response is to a post where nothing is quoted at all for "faulty exegesis' it is merely the "existence" of the text reference that is cited - and is all that it takes for the sort of ad hominem false factless accusations you offer.

================== in summary

You make up positions for others to believe -- then ad hominem condemn others for supposedly believing whatever stuff you make up for them to believe.

That sort of nonsense may work 'for you' - but the unbiased objective bible students that come to this thread will not fall for it.

Your argument that some other board might endorse that sort of accuser-of-the-brethren tactic is not doubted.. I just don't think it will work here.

You stressed yourself the christian is under the law, which any minister will tell you means you are under a law of righteousness. You refused to accept what Paul plainly wrote.
These were your stated beliefs. I did not put words into your mouth
When i gave you sixteen verses of scripture proving the christian is not under the law, you completely ignored them, you refuse to accept what the bible repeatedly states.
Pls dont blame me for your refusal to accept what the bible plainly states

 

[rturner76]

And Paul demands that we admit that the TEN commandments are included in the LAW of God in Eph 6:2 in Romans 13, in Romans 7 as does James demand it in James 2, as does Christ demand it in Matthew 19 -- as we have show a few zillion times on this thread.

Please give us "The Bible" instead, if you looking to present a compelling POV.




As we saw in Mark 7:6-13

How then does God view this idea of editing/downsizing one of the "Commandments of God"??


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

It based on "He who said"


Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10

And in His frequently upholding of Lev 19:18 "Love our neighbor as yourself"
And to "Love God with all your heart " Deut 6:5


These are the basics,

Matthew 22:37
Jesus declared, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

Mark 12:30
and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'

Mark 12:33
and to love Him with all your heart and with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself, which is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."

Luke 10:27
He answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' and 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

Deuteronomy 4:29
"But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul.

Deuteronomy 10:12
"Now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require from you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and love Him, and to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul

=====

all of those scriptures stated - before the cross. And none of them deleting the TEN commandments

Even your own Pope John Paul II admits that the TEN Commandments are for all mankind - the moral law of God.

so also does your own CCC. This is not the part where you are supposed to differ. (Though we do have many differences with the RCC - the Bible TEN commandments as the moral law of God for all mankind -- is not one of them)... Hence my signature line.






Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10

And in His frequently upholding of Lev 19:18 "Love our neighbor as yourself"
And to "Love God with all your heart " Deut 6:5


hint: Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5 did not "delete Exodus 20" when they were given in the OT nor when they are quoted in the NT. I think we all can see that.

And even your own Pope John Paul II, and your own CCC admit the TEN Commandments (all ten) remain included in the moral law of God binding on all mankind. I think we both know that.

your denomination and mine - have some points of difference. But this Bible detail that all TEN of the TEN Commandments are still included in the moral law of God and are still binding on all mankind - even binding on the people of God, is not one of those differences.



Answer: Lev 19:18 is one of the 613 in the OT and it is one of the 1050 in the NT as we see in Matt 22.

What is your point?

Here is another one --

"Do not take God's name in vain" is one of the 613 in the OT but not one of the 1050 in the NT.



Hint: That was me presenting scripture.

Less fiction - more reality please.

I may not have explained my position on how the law no longer applies properly>

The 10 commandments do apply to us, however adherence to them does not save us. What saves us is Grace though Faith. This Grace is what actually allows us or give us the ability to follow the 10 commandments

So yes we do follow the commandments, however, it is not so we will be justified, that is done by faith, it is because we are justified that we follow the commandments.

Romans 3
28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,
30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.
31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Romans 7
For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage.2 she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. in our members to bear fruit for death. new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

Here in Romans 7 Paul is talking about the new way of doing things "through the body of Christ" instead of "the old way of the written code"

I put those two quotes together to say that if you follow the teachings of Christ and be born again, you do not have to go through and memorize pages and pages of Mosaic Law. Christ is all you need. To first have faith and be baptized (1 Peter 3:21) and then Grace provides righteousness
(Romans 5:20-21)
The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

If the focus is on the law, all that is see is sin. If the focus is on Christ, what is seen is righteousness and the righteousness is what rules a person's life, not law and sin. It does not mean we will have a license to sin, it's that who wants to sin with the righteousness of Christ inside?

 

[Fred Manalo]

Peace!

This argument or discussion would go on endlessly because we are all blind. I for one admit it. The only thing that will unite us in the truth is the real baptism of the Spirit which the disciples and all who believed in the Messiah through them received. They became one with God even as Jesus is one with God. With the Spirit of Jesus in them, the new covenant was fulfilled. They became perfect even as God is perfect, able to do all the miracles Jesus did and even greater works they were able to do. They knew all things, even spoke all the languages even as God does. They cannot sin anymore:

1 John 3:9 KJV
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Only those who were so baptized with the Spirit could enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus said that Kingdom will come while some of them were still alive, in their generation.

Matthew 16:27-28 KJV
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. [28] Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

We claim to be born again or baptized with the Spirit but have not the power or the sinlessness that goes with it. We deny that Jesus fulfilled his promise to return in that generation. We are trying to obey all the commandments but never become truly Christlike. We are all blind, and may continually discuss and argue until we die. In the next life, we will all see the truth. But even in this life, we could see the truth if we let the light of the Messiah's words guide us into it.

God bless!