Why do people have a problem with prosperity teachings?

[Shepherd1]

And not just prosperity.
I have been trusting God for health now for on towards 40 years and have enjoyed health to the point where sickness was rare. Yet I have had "believers" criticise me and tell me I was missing out on the real blessing that God has for the sick.
Say what????

LOL!

 

[Achilles6129]

Posted deleted by request of moderator.

 

[charityagape]

Achilles please remove your post. This is not a subforum open to debate from non WOF members. Thank you. If you wish to debate your personal opinion on how God delights in the complete prosperity of His children then open a Thread in the debate section.

 

[lismore]

Hi Lismore, funny I was just thinking this very thing today... in the past we have been intimidated by everyone who calls himself a teacher or a prophet and we accept everything they say even though sometimes it doesn't line up with the word or we get a check in our spirit...

it is time we started to stand up for truth even when it comes from the pulpit, i can guarantee that if we call some of these guys on what they are teaching and prophesying then they will think twice about teaching/prophesying it again...

Hey Mike

Good to see you, how are you doing? I agree. The bible says 'Test everything'.

There are extremes in everything. Just like the Toronto thing was marred by extremists, so it can be the same with prosperity and extremists. Mud can stick to the whole thing rather than just the guilty handful who caused the problem.

God Bless

 

[KingZzub]

Hello.

I thought I was in the Word of Faith forum. All the unbelieving, build your life on circumstances and not what God has promised and rejecting the full redemption that Jesus sacrificed so much for us to have people - can you please return to the non-Word of non-Faith forums.

Thanks,
Benjamin

 

[Jedi.Kep]

I was reading a book this morning which reminded me of this thread. The question brought up dealt with the jews in the old testament. Did the Jews enjoy physical prosperity as a result of obeying God? If the answer is yes, then how can ANYONE say that we Christians, who are supposed to have a BETTER Covenant, have any less than what the jews had?

It's like the old analogy. I have a three bedroom, 2 and a half bath, full carpet home. If I move into a 1 bedroom, half a bath and no carpet home, is that better? Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that it isn't better at all. So apply the same common sense to the Scriptures. If the jews had physical provision and prosperity in the old testament, then we Christians in the NEW testament also have physical provision and prosperity.

This ain't hard folks. The Bible is one of the easiest books to understand on the planet.

 

[ccr9017]

1 Timothy 6 (English Standard Version)

1 Timothy 6

1 Let all who are under a yoke as slaves regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled. 2Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brothers; rather they must serve all the better since those who benefit by their good service are believers and beloved.

False Teachers and True Contentment

Teach and urge these things. 3If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, 4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, 5and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. 6Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment, 7for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. 8But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. 9But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.Fight the Good Fight of Faith

11But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, 14to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen. 17As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. 18They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, 19thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.
20O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called "knowledge," 21for by professing it some have swerved from the faith.

Grace be with you.

 

[MrBojangles]

Prosperity means prosperity whether it be spiritual or material.
Moses gave a list of blessings and curses in Deut. There were no "good" curses nor were there any "bad" blessings. Nobody was blessed with poverty, nor was anyone cursed with prosperity. Engaging in newspeak and trying to redefine words will not work. Good is good and Bad is bad. God wants us to prosper and be saved in every way we can. There is nothing that He did not give us. He is withholding no blessing from us. There is nothing left for Him to give us, because He gave it all in Christ.
Please do not try to talk people out of the blessings God has provided for us. There are many more poor people in this world that need the grace of God in the area of prosperity. Do not rob them of this by injecting doubts into their minds.
Thank you.

Just because some perceive prosperity to mean different things doesn't mean they think their lives have to build on circumstances. I believe God wants us all to prosper, but of course in which ways God wants us to prosper may mean different things to people. With God we can overcome all obstacles, and His Scriptures clearly tell us He wants us to have the most abundant life.

I'm not saying this to debate, just to point out why some have issues with the prosperity teachings; as others have said in this thread, it's because some Christians THINK that prosperity teachings say we are all entitled be rich and in perfect health, etc, when prosperity can mean different things (or all these things) to some. Material riches/physical prosperity mainly, or just spiritual/emotional/psychological prosperity, etc, or all of these.

I think it's because there are different kinds of prosperity some people preach, and so of course there is disagreement. And some Christians who are only exposed to one kind of prosperity teaching (for an example, a kind that pushes only or mainly for physical/materialistic prosperity), are going to wrongly assume that ALL prosperity teachings only teach that; they'll generalize what "prosperity teachings" means and thus not be happy with the label as a whole.

 

[MrBojangles]

First off the phrase "False Teachers and True Contentment" is not in the text. Please do not add to scripture.
Other than that this is a wonderful passage. I am not sure why it is being quoted since it really does not have anything to do with what WoF teaches about prosperity.
But thanks for the quote (at least the scriptural part of it).

1 Timothy 6 (English Standard Version)

1 Timothy 6

1 Let all who are under a yoke as slaves regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled. 2Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brothers; rather they must serve all the better since those who benefit by their good service are believers and beloved.

False Teachers and True Contentment

Teach and urge these things. 3If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, 4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, 5and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. 6Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment, 7for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. 8But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. 9But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.Fight the Good Fight of Faith

11But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, 14to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen. 17As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. 18They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, 19thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.
20O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called "knowledge," 21for by professing it some have swerved from the faith.

Grace be with you.

 

[WOFFER]

First off the phrase "False Teachers and True Contentment" is not in the text. Please do not add to scripture.
Other than that this is a wonderful passage. I am not sure why it is being quoted since it really does not have anything to do with what WoF teaches about prosperity.
But thanks for the quote (at least the scriptural part of it).

Pretty sure he was calling WOF teachers, false teachers.

 

[WOFFER]

As to the OP which was months ago. I think that some have a problem with prosperity teachings because some teachers have taught a hyper-prosperity message. Listen, I am WOF. I was raised in WOF. I attended a WOF Bible College. That being said there is some WOF teachers that HAVE taught an extreme prosperity message. Unless you are sticking your head in the sand, it is evident. No, I am not going to name any names.

People tend to shy away from things that they have seen abuse or error in. I think because of some of the unbalanced teachings that have come forth in WOF, some people fight the whole message. Brother Hagin called that throwing the baby out with the bath water. Just my opinion......

 

[pdudgeon]

this is a generalization, but i think for the most part you will find that those who argue the loudest against the prosperity teachings, also have a problem with the general question of money...whose it is and how it should be spent.

 

[ccr9017]

True Contentment and False Teachers was included in the text because I copied it all from the on-line text at Biblegateway.com. It's a sub-heading the English Standard Version has. I added I Tim. 6 because it gives us a right perspective. Next time I will be more specific. God blesses in many ways, and prosperity can be one of those ways.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I believe God wants us to be "rich" in the fruits of the Holy Spirit our lives and actions bear. To be rich in the Holy Spirit and God's blessings. But that being rich in the spiritual things doesn't always have to mean too materialistically. When we use the wealth God blesses us with to accumulate for ourselves too many things we don't need, it takes the focus off of Christ and others and puts that focus on us; it is selfish, and not humble. God says not to accumulate for ourselves treasures on Earth, but treasures in Heaven. And we are to help the ones less fortunate than ourselves, Christian and not Christian.

So, yes, I do believe that God wants us to prosper; but that it doesn't mean JUST materialistically. !

If I may say,

Concerning what it is that you wrote, I think the issue is that many times people have a one-sided view of what it means to walk in Biblical Prosperity----as they always try to sum it up in terms of money/cash.....or the kind of job one has. And yet, if people were see the issue in differing terms/setting, they would not really have an issue with it.

For example.....I was listening the other day to one of the ministries within the Faith Movement (or, more specifically, a branch of the Faith Movement) that really encouraged me the other day.....from the ministry of G.Craig Lewis and an interview of what he/another discussed on the issue when it comes to Biblical Prosperity and what it truly means in the times we live in:

• EX-Cast Episode 24 - Lonnie Brown

Listening to it, I heavily enjoyed it--as it reminded me of the many messages I remembered growing up as it relates to creative ways to show faith and work with what you have. At one point, it was discussed in the interview how believers need to invest in the land rather than just in standard jobs/means of making money....looknig to find ways of cultivating it (land) to live while also learning how to work with the little that many may have/see it grow into more. Some may think that goes counter to the teachings of Prosperity---but when looking into the scriptures, I cannot say I agree.

For it seems that today many are going back to farming/physically working the land we have, it's amazing....for even the saints in the Bible did the same thing in hard times (Genesis 3:16-18/ , Genesis 26:2-4 / Genesis 26 /Genesis 28:3-5/ Leviticus 25:20-22 / Leviticus 25 /Deuteronomy 11:14-16 / Deuteronomy 11 /Deuteronomy 14:21-23 ( Deuteronomy 14 / Deuteronomy 7:12-14 / Deuteronomy 28:38-40 Deuteronomy 28/ Psalm 67:5-7 / Psalm 67 Psalm 107:36-38/ ,2 Chronicles 26:9-11 , Nehemiah 12:43-45 2 Chronicles 31:4-6/ // Malachi 3:11-13//Hebrews 6:6-8 Hebrews 6 /Hebrews 11:11 )--with "income"/prosperity often being equated in terms of the quality of land one had.. and with God taking what seemed barren/making it into something wonderful for his people. The issue goes even further seeing how the way the ISRAELITIES used the land God gave them would directly affect the level of prosperity they had as well. As seen here

Leviticus 25/ Leviticus 25

The Sabbath Year

1 The LORD said to Moses on Mount Sinai, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When you enter the land I am going to give you, the land itself must observe a sabbath to the LORD. 3 For six years sow your fields, and for six years prune your vineyards and gather their crops. 4 But in the seventh year the land is to have a sabbath of rest, a sabbath to the LORD. Do not sow your fields or prune your vineyards. 5 Do not reap what grows of itself or harvest the grapes of your untended vines. The land is to have a year of rest. 6 Whatever the land yields during the sabbath year will be food for you—for yourself, your manservant and maidservant, and the hired worker and temporary resident who live among you, 7 as well as for your livestock and the wild animals in your land. Whatever the land produces may be eaten.
​

Already interesting enough to see that Adam's first job was to CULTIVATE the Garden that God had made--as seen in where the Word says "The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it" ( Genesis 2:13 /Genesis 2:2 )--and Jesus, when he appeared after the Resurrection, looked like a gardener ( John 20:14-16/ ). And the theme of God either blessing/cursing the land is amazing.....and even as it relates to the issue of PRAYER/Blessing, it's still amazing seeing the examples of others like Elijah--who prayed and was noted to be a man JUST like us (to emphasize that power in prayer was not just limited to him, James 5:16-18 )---and rain came upon the land to bless it ( 1 Kings 18 ). But on some examples to consider...

Genesis 26:12
Isaac planted crops in that land and the same year reaped a hundredfold, because the LORD blessed him.
Genesis 26

Psalm 37
21 The wicked borrow and do not repay,
but the righteous give generously;
22 those the LORD blesses will inherit the land,
but those he curses will be cut off.

Psalm 104:14-16 /
13 He waters the mountains from his upper chambers;
the earth is satisfied by the fruit of his work.
14 He makes grass grow for the cattle,
and plants for man to cultivate—
bringing forth food from the earth:
15 wine that gladdens the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine,
and bread that sustains his heart.
16 The trees of the LORD are well watered,
the cedars of Lebanon that he planted.
​

And on the issue, even in the secular world, it seems that the principles are proving true in many ways. Have you ever heard of something known as "Green-Collar" jobs? President Obama is well known for advocating such prior to his election--and for more info, one can go to Help Wanted For Green Jobs. But when it comes to investing in the land rather than just money, many are gravitating toward that. In example---concerning some of the creative ways others are seeking justice in impoverished communities--and ways in which others are making it profitable---This is from an African American girl who grew up in the Ghetto and is an Social Justice Environmentalist. Her name is Majora Carter For more info, one can go to

• Majora Carter: Greening the ghetto

• "If I were President, I'd Green The Ghettos.."

I was very inspired by it and what she seemed to be doing practically in the field. Majora Carter was born/ raised in the South Bronx---with her work taking her around the world in pursuit of resources and ideas to improve the quality of life in environmentally challenged communities. She founded Sustainable South Bronx in 2001 and by 2003 had implemented the highly successful Bronx Environmental Stewardship Training (BEST) program— a pioneering "green-collar" job training and placement system -- seeding communities with a skilled workforce that has both a personal & economic stake in their urban environment. She is currently president of the green-collar economic consulting firm the Majora Carter Group, LLC. Watching her in action, it reminded me of many of the creative ideas I discovered in college--and how much of what she was doing was in line with things we learned about in college during Human Services.... as it relates to finding PROFITABLE ways of living/ believers fighting in faith to gain rights to investing in land (i.e. growing healthy foods, sustainable development, etc).

As another individual said best on the issue--as seen in Majora Carter brings inspired 'Green the Ghetto' message to ... :

What makes Majora Carter a sustainability rock star? Is it her recognition that social justice in the inner city (South Bronx) meant reclaiming and restoring the most hyper local of resources—land, water and air? Was it her unflagging pursuit of a better quality of life for her neighbors who were frankly being ignored by the power structure in New York City? By her insistence that history as a dumping ground doesn’t have to determine the future as a dump (embodied in her awesome, eight-year campaign to convert a literal dump at the mouth of the Bronx River into a beautiful community park—pictured above)?
​

​

Carter shared the story of how she founded Sustainable South Bronx during a Cleveland appearance yesterday. It illuminated why she’s a national icon, like Van Jones, for giving voice and providing leadership to minorities and those disproportionately affected by the damage wrought by our ‘fossil fuel economy.’

“I always say, ‘you don’t have to move out of your neighborhood to live in a better one.’ If we would have built oil refineries and factories in rich neighborhoods instead, we would have had a clean, green economy a long time ago.”




​

For another example, has anyone ever heard of a man named Will Allen? He leads an organization one can go online and look up known as "Growing Power" --a Milwaukee-based company that develops urban farming techniques and teaches young people through workshops how to grow food in poor, inner-city neighborhoods...working, of course, with other non-profits around the country and seeking to aid urban communities in showing residents sustainable ways to grow their own fresh fruits and vegetables in small spaces. For it is his hope to bring healthy, affordable food directly to the communities that have the least access to them....and find ways to empower others to feed themselves in all situations. He actually did a seminar with the First Lady in a campain they're for concerning addressing obesity....As one can go online/look up an article entitled "Will Allen heading to White House to help First Lady launch obesity initiative" ( //www.jsonline.com/blogs/lifestyle/83825187.html ) .and if one looks up the Phenomenon known as Urban Agriculture, then one can better see the issue of where he's trying to come from...as it relates to finding ways of expressing Biblical Prosperity differently than usual..as it's a blessing/transforming many communities looking for ways to grow.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

if one looks up the Phenomenon known as Urban Agriculture, then one can better see the issue of where he's trying to come from...as it relates to finding ways of expressing Biblical Prosperity differently than usual..as it's a blessing/transforming many communities looking for ways to grow.

For more info on Urban Agriculture, one can go online/look up the following:

• TIME: Inner-City Farms ( //www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1826271,00.html )

• Down On The (Urban) Farm ( //www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/23/sunday/main4628094.shtml )

• Urban Agriculture and Community Food Security in the United States ... ( //www.foodsecurity.org/PrimerCFSCUAC.pdf )

• "The urban farmer: One man's crusade to plough up the inner city" ( //www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/features/the-urban-farmer-one-mans-crusade-to-plough-up-the-inner-city-836358.html )

• "WHY URBAN AGRICULTURE?" ( //www.kccua.org/whyUA.htm )

• [FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]"Resources for city farms" ( //journeytoforever.org/cityfarm_link.html )
  [/FONT]

• Group formed to legalize urban farming in the City of L.A. ( //www.cityfarmer.info/2009/11/08/group-formed-to-legalize-urban-farming-in-the-city-of-l-a/ )

• CNN reports – Solutions – Urban Farms – Urban Communities Growing Fresh Food ( //www.cityfarmer.info/2009/11/25/cnn-reports-solutions-urban-farms-urban-communities-growing-fresh-food/ )

• "Rooftops and Urban Agriculture" ( //www.cityfarmer.org/subrooftops.html )

• Urban Farm Plot Violates Zoning | Planetizen ( //www.planetizen.com/node/39964 )

• Seeking a Just and Sustainable Food System for West Michigan ( //www.foodshed.net/projects.htm )

• Urban agriculture – a hobby grows into a cause ( //features.csmonitor.com/gardening/2009/09/17/urban-agriculture-%E2%80%93-a-hobby-grows-into-a-cause/ )

• Urban farming yields a harvest of hassles ( //www.cityfarmer.info/2009/11/07/urban-farming-yields-a-harvest-of-hassles/ )

My mom and I were talking on the issue the other day, seeing how in many ways it's VERY EXPENSIVE to eat healthy nowadays. We learned in Human Services how for those in an Urban/Street context, many times they wish to be in good health--but the foods they need to do well and be nutritional are way out of their pay range...especially if they're barely making a living wage and having to scrape by enough as it is for themselves/the kids----and for many families, their "Family Dinner/Treat" is a Happy Meal at McDonald's or Burger King. And when going to the store, many times they have no idea of what it is they're to buy...or can even afford to buy, with many of the canned goods having chemicals/ingrediants in them that cause health problems they have to deal with later.

And on the issue of prosperity, when it comes to people seeking to do things in line with what the Bible says on it, it does seem that many times people focus so much on monetary gain as the means of impact that they forget the many other ways in which they could be creative in aiding themselves/others----without ever having to focus on things that drain money.....

Rather than focusing on having a canned food drive/praying for financial aid or sowing seed into that, why not have a church exercise faith via GROWING FOOD on their lawns/using what they grow to aid the poor and destitute? For many times the canned foods used are not really that healthy since they're processed already/full of bad ingrediants. So often it seems that the things many churches invest in are not truly God's Best...and though he can work through it, it may not be what he always prefers. And we can end up creating systems of development that are counter-productive to our goals----preaching, for example, on Biblical Wholeness and yet producing goods that make others unhealthy...

As one of my brothers in the Lord said best:

Personally, I've been led to form a home-farming group for the purpose of becoming God-sufficient and of producing an abundance above and beyond what we need to give to the poor - some of who may very well be orphans and widows. It's tiny now - The-Garden - and very WoF, but as things start to grow, so will the group.


​

.. I have a growing apiary and I've got beds of kalo, pecan trees, peaches that produce way more than we can eat, mulberry and blackberries, thick asparagus, wild garlic, etc, and a pit-greenhouse that I grow my tropicals like bananas, more kalo, macadamia nut, guava, pineapples, citrus, avocado, and whatnot. Even have a chocolate and several coffee trees and vanilla orchids inside too. Soon I'll be starting new beds for regular veggies then start building an intellegence file on the needy in my area and hope to network up with similar faith Christians in other areas to serve as an agreement support and seed sharing and whatnot. My particular gift has always been growing plants and it's time to turn that blessing into a blessing for others. I've been co-owner of multi-thousand member organic gardening groups for years and am ashamed I didn't pursue this earlier - but the time is right now.

I find it odd to see churches with those huge lawns that do nothing but suck up money and resources in care and upkeep but bear no fruit whatsoever - when part of our charter as Christians is to feed the poor. Every single church with a lawn or even a store-front church with room for a container garden in it's window should be growing veggies, fruits, nuts and soforth to feed the hungry. The hungry don't deserve the poor quality canned foods that many of us wouldn't even touch and yet we feel righteous tossing these cans in the donation bags. We are to love them as we love ourselves and if we appreciate good fresh food, then they should receive the same! If not better. For by the measure we give so shall we receive - which explains the sad state of so many churches out there...



​

Hearing that from my brother was really encouraging. For his idea made me remember growing up when my mother was single and I lived with some friends of my grand-parents who were elderly themselves when we lived in OakRidge, TN. They had a garden in the back of the house where they grew crops ...actually storing food of all kind in the basement while simultaneously going to "Food Lion" (if you remember when they were pretty huge), "Piggly Wiggly" and other supermarkets----all of which came in handy when money was low/they couldn't buy as easily. It was very practical....and AFTER SEEING how much "Prosperity/Favor" are discussed in WOF, I'm curious as to why the ideas of my friends/neighbors are not as broadcast today. There was one lady I heard against was against TITHING always being about "money" and wanted to do so the Biblical Way with growing crops as they tithed off of that in the OT......and she thought it'd be an creative/excellent method to use in aiding people apart from many of the teachings others seem to have continual issue with such as TITHING and giving focused through the lens of MONETARY Means

IMHO....If more people were aware of the effectiveness of things such as Urban Agriculture or growing your own food/resources, then I'd think they would begin directing attention and faith there more so than canned food drives alone----as their minds have been expanded on more effective ways that one could perhaps go about addressing issues of the poor---and it's no different than living within a box with 4 walls/no windows and being content with life there... but later having one of the walls opened up/a window given so that they can see the Outside World. Because of that, they'll no longer be content...as they know that more's possible to experience/believe for...and God's more than willing/able to operate for others believing for RADICAL THINGS..



It'd be humorous to see more people within the Faith Movement (as well as any/all supporting Biblical Prosperity) to begin discussing the issue of land/growth and development---------for especially when it comes to many of the things often discussed such as "offering first fruits" or "aim your seed"/"sow into the body" or even terminology with tithing/giving, people would be far more faithful to scripture if they went the whole way with using the actual land/seeds to aid others/evaluate rather than equating all things with prosperity to the amount of "money" one has/ just dealing with transactions in cash $$$

...and not surprising, IMHO, if they did so, I suspect people would still be prosperous/taken care of. Been going through Genesis---and in reading it's amazing to me how much the issue of land is a central theme throughout the book, as well as the many examples of followers in the Lord who cultivated the land/knew how to work it when it came to prosperity. Speaking of the recession we're in, I'm amazed seeing the example of Joseph---whom God blessed in his work and who was wise when it came to dealing with hard times by using the land wisely in the time he had/storing up for the sake of aiding others later when he had 7 years of plenty and 7 of want. Nothing in the land that it produced was wasted-with God working with that to prosper his people/make sure others were provided for during the time, Genesis 41:13/Genesis 42-52

The same Is true of us, IMHO, today...and hence, one of the reasons why many saints need to stop equating prosperity SOLEY to the level of MONEY/ income one has--as it has never been nor was it ever about that.


On the issue of saints needing to invest in the LAND they walk on, wanted to mention how sometimes, as it relates to believers fighting in faith to gain rights to investing in land/blessing it, there's a lot of opposition just for trying to operate God's system the way he set up so that one can cultivate the land for prosperity (i.e. growing healthy foods, sustainable development, etc)---and in example, one may wish to go online and look up an article entitled"The Garden: Los Angeles urban farmers struggle against corporate interests"--in connection with another ministry one can investigate called "Take Back The Land"( ), which is a ministry dealing with the issue of gentrification in communities/how often many have had land taken away from them.... for when one does research on the issue of sharecropping...and how much land taken away from certain groups was a constant in U.S History, it makes sense why many blacks have been such strong advocates for it/having the right to cultivate what they have.


For those churches in the Faith Movement who are passionate for issues pertaining to Social Justice/finding ways of loving JUSTICE, its something I do wish was discussed more in the camp. But on the issue, it is my hope that I'll be able to find other believers here who share similar visions in regards to where we choose to exercise our faith. In the times we live in, it does seem we need to think more outside the box. Seeing that it's Black History Month, I cannot help but be reminded of one man of GREAT faith that changed our nation----known as "George Washington Carver" ( ) and the extensive myriad of things---through experimentation of plants--that he developed..with there being literally hundreds of uses for things he discovered from peanuts and other plants. Other ministries have arisen following in his footsteps/basing their goals on the methods he did things in...and for examples, go to Technology For The Poor /"Technologies for Sustainable Development"/ Job S. Ebenezer - GEORGE WASHINGTON CARVER'S VISION OF SUSTAINABILITY


Though well known for these inventions, of course he was in the trenches with others aiding children/serving the poor---which is why in Black Culture, he's truly one of the coolest men of all time. It was really amazing to see how he testified on many occasions that his faith in Jesus was the only mechanism by which he could effectively pursue and perform the art of science....and should ANYONE investigate his testimony, I think they'd be blessed. More in the times of recession we live in need to rise up as him, IMHO. For it's odd when it seems people still think that addressing the issues of the poor can be dealt with by praying for God to send MORE MONEY/"SEED" to give rather than finding CREATIVE WAYS in knowing how to invest properly...and work with what one already has.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

People don't realize that money is a tool we can use in this world for the preaching of the gospel. If a person is scared of the tool, then they won't use it.

Good Word, Bruh...

 

[KM Richards]

Why do people have a problem with prosperity teachings?

Alot of people like the fellowship of hangin with poor people, that and guilt because they don't believe Jesus literally paid for their sin and God isn't actually mad at them, something mainstream religion eludes to alot.

Prosperity is alot more than money, and money is actually numerous slots down the list. There's alot of things God desires to do for His people right here on earth that all the money in the world couldn't buy

Like...health, protection, peace, etc

 

[donnamabob]

I started having a problem with the "prosperity gospel" when I started noticing that the only ones bearing any fruit from it were the ones preaching it. The congregation just kept giving and giving, expecting to recieve their "hundred fold" blessing, but the only ones who got anything out of it were the ones preaching it. That raised a major RED FLAG in my eyes.

The preachers would tell us that if we didn't recieve anything in return, then it was simply due to our lack of faith. But they failed to mention that while God desires that we prosper, he didn't PROMISE it, so we have no right to claim it. He didn't die on the cross for our wealth, and thats where I think the confusion lies.

When you are taught to give in order to recieve something in return from God, this teaches us to be prideful, and to EXPECT blessings from God, when in reality we deserve none. Furthermore, it discourages contentment. God will never prosper you until your character has matured to the point where you can recieve it without compromising your relationship with him. Now, please understand that I'm refering to "prosperity" not the basic needs of life.

Bill Johnson said it best when he said that "God will bless a non-believer before he will bless the carnal Christian, because he wants to keep their wick burning" (paraphrased)

God is way more concerned with peoples spiritual conditions then anything else, and he knows the responsibility that comes along with being a steward of any kind of financial prosperity. He also knows who is ready to handle these responsibilities, and who it will destroy. So while he really does desire that all of his children be mature enough to handle prosperity - the fact of the matter is that it isn't the case, and sewing a $20 "faith seed" along with an order for a "hundred fold return" isn't going to change a thing.

 

[MrBojangles]

I fully believe in prosperity.
I cannot remember the last time I prayed about money. I never worry about it. I know we have a bank account, but the wifey takes care of all the bills. I have no idea how much we have right now. If I see something I want I get it. If the house needs something, we buy it. I really have no concern about money at all. I cannot remember the last time I thought "I would like to get that but I better check the account." Our bank sends us a letter every once in a while telling us our credit rating is in the mid to high 700s. That is ok I guess. I never worry about it. We are about to go buy a new car. A hybred that gets 60 miles to a gallon. That is cool. We live by the ocean, but we own a house in the upstate. We rent it for almost nothing to a couple who needed help. Like I said... I am not worried about it.
I just purchased a full woodworking shop. A table saw, a miter saw, a band saw, and a scroll saw. I am getting the planer jointer next, then a router table and maybe a lathe. I am going to put them in my air conditioned two car garage that has an apartment over it. The kids and grandkids stay there when they visit.
My point is I do not worry about it either way. I find that anti-prosperity people are more obsessed with how much money I have than I have ever been. Today we give away more money than we made 30 years ago when I worried about money all the time. People worry about money because they love it. They are obsessed with it... whether they have some or none. Which is sad because poor people who are obsessed about money have it bad --- because they do not have any. Rich people who obsess with money have it bad also, because they are constantly counting it and worrying who is going steal it or overcharge them and take advantage of them. My wife publishes books and the rich people are the worst when it comes to trying to cheat you or nickle and dime you. They worry about every penny. She has clients who live in gated communities on gated islands. They are multimillionaires. But they worry about every penny you charge them. Other people people are equally obsessed about your money. They are scared to death that you may have too much. They are just as bad as those penny pinchers. They need to tend to their own business and not worry about my checking account. They love worrying about my money and that maybe I will have too much. Same deal... the love of money is the source of evil. Stop being evil about my money.


Having said all that let me also say I am willing to bet that I have been poorer than everyone reading this. At the ripe old age of 22 I was unemployed with 2 (twins) in diapers and a preggie wife.
We had 9 dollars.
We took it and bought some beans and baby food.
Her mother let us stay in an old vacant house she had.
There was no work anywhere.
Then the unemployment ran out.
Then the house burned.
Then the car broke down.
Then the wife had the baby but we had no money to pay.
Then some neighbor called welfare on us.
We literally dressed in rags.
Bill collectors were calling every day.
Then I started having chest pains.

We lived in a 2 room shack with no running water for 9 months.
I finally got a job working for $3.17 hour where I had to walk several miles a day.

So do not give me any crap about how wonderful it is to be impoverished. Poverty kills all hope. Poverty makes you want to run away and give up. Poverty can make you want to kill yourself and get away. Oh yes we heard the same "the prosperity message is bad" back then too. We heard it from religious people who NEVER lifted a finger to help us. The same people would make fun of our children at church because they were not dressed well enough. The same people would criticize and condemn us for everything we did. The same people would comment on how skinny our children were and "are they getting enough to eat?" We had to walk miles to the grocery store and carry groceries back. We were on welfare and the food stamps did not go far. Some of these same pious people would pass us by on the highway and not offer a ride. I would have to put the kids on the back of a bike to take them to the free clinic because the pious money haters would not offer any help for these children they worried so much about. Just like some of the anti-prosperity people I hear today. They have no clue.

IT WAS THE PROSPERITY MESSAGE THE GOT US OUT OF THAT DITCH.

A brother had just graduated from Rhema. We attended his fellowship. One day he showed up at the door with a handful of dollar bills. HE was the only one of all those people who ever gave us a thing. He was not obsessed about money either.

I have been dirt poor and I have been rich. I have lived in a shack and I have lived in a millionaires gated community. God did not love me more or less either way.

Bottom line... if you want to be poor then be poor. I doubt that any of you anti-prosperity people will take me up on that. But don't worry about how much money I have. To be plain about it... just mind your own business.

 

[lismore]

As to the OP which was months ago. I think that some have a problem with prosperity teachings because some teachers have taught a hyper-prosperity message......

Extremes can put people off.

But not a balanced message presented in compassion