Why do people hate the Seventh Day Adventists?

[mmksparbud]

Through the law we become conscious of sin rom 3:20

My friend, how can you compare addicts who have not been born again with those who have been, and therefore the law is placed within them.
I know that people who follow the written code can sin without conscience /be ignorant of their sin, as I previously showed you.
All I can tell you is, I have not been afforded such a luxury

Same principle. Ignore reality. And I've not been afforded such a luxury myself!

 

[mark wright]

Really---you should pray for them. You go from one to "on such a scale"---Like I said, we do not look to people but to Christ. If it is sin you want to see, get your sleuth shoes on and check out the members of your own church, you just might be surprised. But no other church will be. A church is a bunch of sinners on a journey to God, not a museum of those that have achieved perfection. Of course, you and your church could be different, but I doubt it.

You don't understand the biblical principal. Who did Jesus consider the most guilty? Those who most earnestly sought to be justified by following the written code.
What happened to them?
They became full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean on the inside

 

[mark wright]

No he doesn't mention feast days in that verse--he doesn't mention any day in that verse, esp not the Sabbath. The fact, however, is that they had many feast days they highly regarded. But with their Levitical laws done away with, they no longer had to be kept, but some still wanted to.

Good grief, I just quoted the verses where he states clearly the vision is about people not food and you still insist it's about food!!! You want to tell me again how you can't disregard the Holy Spirit??
I have to say, I've never met any SDA who believes they will go to heaven if they keep all the commandments. But I know this, you can be lost if you disobey them and are unrepentant.
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Keeping them will not save you if you do not do so out of love for God and man, but breaking them will condemn you.

Romans 14 is clearly about food as Paul explains and it I a blanket statement in vrrse five. You can reason anything if you try hard enough to justify your beliefs.
You don't understand grace. No one can ignore what is on their heart.
It is the people who look to the written code who, in reality justify their sin. Not those who follow after the spirit. You are wrong there

 

[mark wright]

Actually, I have found the opposite to be the norm. Those who believe they do not have to obey the law have no expectations at all of the obedience required. Those who are foolish enough to truly believe that the law saves them, pull out their own teeth trying to keep them.

I have met no christian personally in any church I have been a member of who has justified multiple affairs by saying. No one is perfect, only that one church.
I have met no one, in any church I have been a member of who casually takes the Lords name in vain without realising they sin by doing do, except in that one church
The holy spirit is a far greater convictir of sin than looking to the written code ever will be.
And if you understood Paul's message, you see victory over sin by looking away from the written code, looking to it foes not bring victory.
I have to say, in all sincerity, the woman I told you about was the greatest endorsement of my beliefs I have ever had

 

[mark wright]

Same principle. Ignore reality. And I've not been afforded such a luxury myself!

No one who has been born again and subsequently the law placed within them can ignore the reality that brings

 

[mmksparbud]

Romans 14 is clearly about food as Paul explains and it I a blanket statement in vrrse five. You can reason anything if you try hard enough to justify your beliefs.
You don't understand grace. No one can ignore what is on their heart.
It is the people who look to the written code who, in reality justify their sin. Not those who follow after the spirit. You are wrong there

yes, they can ignore what is on their heart. I've seen it. And it is called the grieving of the Holy Spirit.

 

[mark wright]

yes, they can ignore what is on their heart. I've seen it. And it is called the grieving of the Holy Spirit.

Yes, it is grieving the holy spirit who dwells in the christian if we go against the law placed within us.
So you believe the christian can grieve the holy spirit who dwells in them without being conscious they have done so.
When we get to the heart of the matter. It is those who follow the written code who have the least conviction of sin in their lives, and therefore find the most excuses for breaking Gods laws

 

[mark wright]

yes, they can ignore what is on their heart. I've seen it. And it is called the grieving of the Holy Spirit.

Let me be clear. A born again christian can and does commit sin, they do at times go against the law placed on their heart, but they cannot do so without conscience. It is the safety valve of grace. And that conscience hurts them badly when they follow the flesh rather than the spirit

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes, it is grieving the holy spirit who dwells in the christian if we go against the law placed within us.
So you believe the christian can grieve the holy spirit who dwells in them without being conscious they have done so.
When we get to the heart of the matter. It is those who follow the written code who have the least conviction of sin in their lives, and therefore find the most excuses for breaking Gods laws

Let me be clear. A born again christian can and does commit sin, they do at times go against the law placed on their heart, but they cannot do so without conscience. It is the safety valve of grace. And that conscience hurts them badly when they follow the flesh rather than the spirit

Yes, but that voice can be silenced by ignoring it often enough. That's why it's called grieving the Spirit. The thing is, for those who believe they have no law to follow, have no need of the Holy Spirit to convict them, for they don't believe they've broken any old law that has been done away with.
We could go on all night like this you know. You claim to know SDA's believe they are saved by the law, I claim, as an SDA, I've never met one. I've known adulterers in my church, I've known men who woke up one day and told his wife and 4 kids he no longer wanted to have God in his life and walked away from them, my Catholic friend has seen the same thing in her church, so has everybody else. And on both sides of the argument, they can turn their ear away from the convicting voice of the Holy Spirit. Bottom line, we are saved by grace alone, but unrepentant sin will condemn you. Grieving the Holy Spirit is more than breaking a commandment,
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

 

[mark wright]

Yes, but that voice can be silenced by ignoring it often enough. That's why it's called grieving the Spirit. The thing is, for those who believe they have no law to follow, have no need of the Holy Spirit to convict them, for they don't believe they've broken any old law that has been done away with.
We could go on all night like this you know. You claim to know SDA's believe they are saved by the law, I claim, as an SDA, I've never met one. I've known adulterers in my church, I've known men who woke up one day and told his wife and 4 kids he no longer wanted to have God in his life and walked away from them, my Catholic friend has seen the same thing in her church, so has everybody else. And on both sides of the argument, they can turn their ear away from the convicting voice of the Holy Spirit. Bottom line, we are saved by grace alone, but unrepentant sin will condemn you. Grieving the Holy Spirit is more than breaking a commandment,
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

My friend you need to understand the gospel. How can a person who has the law written on their mind and placed on their heart have no law?
Sda that I have known believe they were saved by grace but will be justified for heaven by obeying parts of the written code. That is living the christian life under a law of righteousness, that is not the true message.
The bible tells us the christian is released from the written code and serves in the new way of the Spirit. You don't understand that sadly.
You ses, those who stress you must obey the written code to be justified appear not to understand what that demands, and from what I have seen people who do this are able to sin without conscience.
As I said earlier, I personally liked the sda people I met. But as I sat in one of the groups of learning in their church my overwhelming impression was:
Where is the holy spirit?
You see, as long as you follow the written code you are blocked from having spirit filled Christianity.

 

[mark wright]

For through the law I died to the law( written code) so that i might live for God.
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live but Christ lives in me.
The life I life in the body I live by faith in the son of God who loved me and gave himself for me.
I do not set aside the grace of God. For if righteousness/justification could be gained through the law/ written code Christ died for nothing
Gal2:19-21

 

[mmksparbud]

I do not know how to explain it any clearer----there is no SDA that believes we saved by keeping the law--just doesn't happen it is not something we teach. We are saved by grace---period. But the bible is clear.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
See, I do not understand what is so hard to comprehend that you can keep the commandments, but if not done out of love for God and man, from bottom of a Holy Spirit filled heart, it will not save you. The law is a mirror that shows you how to love, but it can not save you. It reflects what is wrong with you only. If you say you are not under the law and commit adultery----you will not be saved unless you repent. It is the same with each of the commandments. You can keep the Sabbath perfectly and still not be saved for it was not done out of love for God--and He alone can judge the heart---you can not. There is only one commandment that anyone has a problem with---that is the Sabbath. Everyone agrees if you murder and are unrepentant, you will not be saved, and on down the line, but when it comes to the 4th--that is where everything stops and all of a sudden, it doesn't matter what God said, it doesn't matter that is what He wants, it just doesn't fit into the schedule of life and there are no end of ways to squirm out of not regarding it the same as the other 9. And if the decision is made that maybe it really does matter, then it doesn't matter what God said is the day He wants, we will keep what day we want. No one does that with any other commandment. In fact, the expound on them, as Jesus did when He said even looking at a woman with lust is adultery. Lying is not just not telling the truth, you are lying if you fail to tell the truth, the sin of omission they say, or just a little lie, but not the whole truth is still lying, watching porn is still adultery, in fact the bible says hating someone is the same as murder. But when it comes to the 4th---0it doesn't matter what God said.
If that is how you feel, fine, you need not justify yourself to me or any other SDA. We state our reasons for keeping it. You counter with it doesn't matter. Fine, then if it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter if we keep it! I'll let God tell me--"Well, I didn't really mean it."---What I do not want to hear is ---"What part of remember the 7th day to keep it holy did you not understand????
He alone is your judge and mine.
And I have to get some rest--Good night and God bless!

 

[mark wright]

I do not know how to explain it any clearer----there is no SDA that believes we saved by keeping the law--just doesn't happen it is not something we teach. We are saved by grace---period. But the bible is clear.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
See, I do not understand what is so hard to comprehend that you can keep the commandments, but if not done out of love for God and man, from bottom of a Holy Spirit filled heart, it will not save you. The law is a mirror that shows you how to love, but it can not save you. It reflects what is wrong with you only. If you say you are not under the law and commit adultery----you will not be saved unless you repent. It is the same with each of the commandments. You can keep the Sabbath perfectly and still not be saved for it was not done out of love for God--and He alone can judge the heart---you can not. There is only one commandment that anyone has a problem with---that is the Sabbath. Everyone agrees if you murder and are unrepentant, you will not be saved, and on down the line, but when it comes to the 4th--that is where everything stops and all of a sudden, it doesn't matter what God said, it doesn't matter that is what He wants, it just doesn't fit into the schedule of life and there are no end of ways to squirm out of not regarding it the same as the other 9. And if the decision is made that maybe it really does matter, then it doesn't matter what God said is the day He wants, we will keep what day we want. No one does that with any other commandment. In fact, the expound on them, as Jesus did when He said even looking at a woman with lust is adultery. Lying is not just not telling the truth, you are lying if you fail to tell the truth, the sin of omission they say, or just a little lie, but not the whole truth is still lying, watching porn is still adultery, in fact the bible says hating someone is the same as murder. But when it comes to the 4th---0it doesn't matter what God said.
If that is how you feel, fine, you need not justify yourself to me or any other SDA. We state our reasons for keeping it. You counter with it doesn't matter. Fine, then if it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter if we keep it! I'll let God tell me--"Well, I didn't really mean it."---What I do not want to hear is ---"What part of remember the 7th day to keep it holy did you not understand????
He alone is your judge and mine.
And I have to get some rest--Good night and God bless!

You are most welcome to observe a specific Saturday Sabbath I you want to. Paul refers to that as a disputable matter it is up to the individual to make their own mind up concerning that.
In truth every seventh day Adventist I have met believes they are justified/ righteous for heaven if they obey the written code. They don't believe they are initially saved by keeping the law, but once they are saved heaven hinges on observing the law, you must obey the written code to attain heaven You cannot see Tha view is wrong unless the holy spirit reveals it to you
Concerning you quoting. Obey the commandments.
I have shown you, it is those who follow the written code who have far more trouble obeying than those who do not. And those who follow the written code can flagrantly sin without conscience. As i told you, I do not have that luxury.
Grace is impossible to understand through looking to the written code.
Victory over sin us by dying to a justification of observing the written code, you are released from following the written code
Now get some sleep, don't let your health suffer chatting to me on here

 

[mark wright]

Yes, but that voice can be silenced by ignoring it often enough. That's why it's called grieving the Spirit. The thing is, for those who believe they have no law to follow, have no need of the Holy Spirit to convict them, for they don't believe they've broken any old law that has been done away with.
We could go on all night like this you know. You claim to know SDA's believe they are saved by the law, I claim, as an SDA, I've never met one. I've known adulterers in my church, I've known men who woke up one day and told his wife and 4 kids he no longer wanted to have God in his life and walked away from them, my Catholic friend has seen the same thing in her church, so has everybody else. And on both sides of the argument, they can turn their ear away from the convicting voice of the Holy Spirit. Bottom line, we are saved by grace alone, but unrepentant sin will condemn you. Grieving the Holy Spirit is more than breaking a commandment,
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

There is one thing else to mention.
No one who understands the truth of the Christian Gospel and follows it can wake up one morning and decide they don't want God in their life anymore.
Many go to church who sadly do not know the truth. They do not understand the truth of the message.
I have chatted to muslims who claim they were once christians, but when pressed could not tell me the truth of the Gospel message:
They went out from us but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us they would have remained with us. But their going showed Tha none of them belonged to us
1 john: 2:19

 

[mark wright]

I don't wish to long discuss a set day Sabbath. However, a spirit filled Christian would consider all seven days sacred. They would contemplate on Christ every day, worship and praise him every day. Set time aside for prayer every day. And rest in what he did for them at Calvary every day.
The true dividing line in Christianity I not according to denomination but rather the holy spirit.
A spirit filled Christian/ being led of the holy spirit in truth may set aside a specific day of the week, others may consider every day alike. As Paul says. Each one should make their own mind concerning this.
But those who know nothing of spirit filled Christianity, and believe they must look to the written code for obedience that brings justification for heaven will never understand spirit filled Christianity,so they cling to the letter, and in regard to this thread then insist you observe a specific saturday Sabbath.
Never the two paths shall meet as it were

 

[mark wright]

I do not know how to explain it any clearer----there is no SDA that believes we saved by keeping the law--just doesn't happen it is not something we teach. We are saved by grace---period. But the bible is clear.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
See, I do not understand what is so hard to comprehend that you can keep the commandments, but if not done out of love for God and man, from bottom of a Holy Spirit filled heart, it will not save you. The law is a mirror that shows you how to love, but it can not save you. It reflects what is wrong with you only. If you say you are not under the law and commit adultery----you will not be saved unless you repent. It is the same with each of the commandments. You can keep the Sabbath perfectly and still not be saved for it was not done out of love for God--and He alone can judge the heart---you can not. There is only one commandment that anyone has a problem with---that is the Sabbath. Everyone agrees if you murder and are unrepentant, you will not be saved, and on down the line, but when it comes to the 4th--that is where everything stops and all of a sudden, it doesn't matter what God said, it doesn't matter that is what He wants, it just doesn't fit into the schedule of life and there are no end of ways to squirm out of not regarding it the same as the other 9. And if the decision is made that maybe it really does matter, then it doesn't matter what God said is the day He wants, we will keep what day we want. No one does that with any other commandment. In fact, the expound on them, as Jesus did when He said even looking at a woman with lust is adultery. Lying is not just not telling the truth, you are lying if you fail to tell the truth, the sin of omission they say, or just a little lie, but not the whole truth is still lying, watching porn is still adultery, in fact the bible says hating someone is the same as murder. But when it comes to the 4th---0it doesn't matter what God said.
If that is how you feel, fine, you need not justify yourself to me or any other SDA. We state our reasons for keeping it. You counter with it doesn't matter. Fine, then if it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter if we keep it! I'll let God tell me--"Well, I didn't really mean it."---What I do not want to hear is ---"What part of remember the 7th day to keep it holy did you not understand????
He alone is your judge and mine.
And I have to get some rest--Good night and God bless!

BTW

An SDA church member has stated on this thread, and I quote:

Obedience to the ten commandments is stressed multiple times to be the requirement for entrance to heaven.

Unquote.

I admire that man for being honest as to how SDA folk see it.
But however much you try to play with words, that is stating your justification/ righteousness for heaven is observing the written code of the ten commandments.
You would not believe That if you are led of the holy spirit in the truth of the Gospel message. Being led of man made reasoning would cause you to believe it

Incidentally, in my youth I tried to attain heaven under a justification of observing the written code without even realising I was doing it

 

[Basil Isaacks]

Please---you are wrong, very mistaken, we do not hate Catholics, we do not like their doctrines. There is a world of difference and if you do not see it, you need to look into your own heart. The Catholics themselves were their own greatest detractors as from their own priests came the very first of those that called them Babylon and the antichrist from way back in AD 900---- down to Luther and every one of the first Protestants---that's why they called themselves Protestants!
And the Sabbath was created as a commemoration of the creative work of God---it marked the end of His creation and we are to honor it for it is He that set it aside in honor of that creation. He blessed that day, and no other.

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

If you want to honor another day than the one He designated, that is your choice----Able also thought he would honor God in his own way instead of the way God told him to.

In the same way, I don't hate SDA. I dislike and even abhor some of their doctrines and practices.

FWIW, when an SDA becomes Orthodox, s/he must be received by Orthodox baptism, instead of merely by Chrismation.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

mark wright

off topic but it might help in this conversation if you would explain what we are judged by;
Matthew 12:35-37 King James Version (KJV)
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

The Bible indicates that it is by his Word.
Matthew 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 

[mark wright]

mark wright

off topic but it might help in this conversation if you would explain what we are judged by;
Matthew 12:35-37 King James Version (KJV)
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

The Bible indicates that it is by his Word.
Matthew 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

How about:

The measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you
Matt7:2

Possibly an apt response in this thread.
If you wish to discuss it further, why not start a thread on it as being off topic might derail the thread

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Being led of man made reasoning would cause you to believe it

I know that we have Biblical Scripture to support;
Matthew 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Exodus 16:28
And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
Exodus 20:6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Leviticus 22:31
Therefore shall ye keep my commandments, and do them: I am the Lord.
Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, thefaithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Notice that it is the Lord speaking the above words not man.
There are many more of these in the word.