Why do people hate the Seventh Day Adventists?

[mark wright]

Clarification on what has been removed please and by whom.

I asked you first for a thorough exegesis of romans 7:7-11 I will wait and see if you can give it

 

[mark wright]

I take the word as it is written.

There is no point in just quoting the literal letter, you need to be able to explain that letter

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Your posts #287 in this tread indicate that you believe the the 4th commandment is invalid. So if that Commandment is invalid I assume that you must believe the other 9 are also.
Paul did not think they were invalid, including the 4th

 

[mark wright]

Your posts #287 in this tread indicate that you believe the the 4th commandment is invalid. So if that Commandment is invalid I assume that you must believe the other 9 are also.
Paul did not think they were invalid, including the 4th

You cannot explain the requested verses can you. They go the heart of Paul's core message of grace. Therefore my statement was accurate.

As you say you just quote the letter, here is the actual letter:

One man considers one day more sacred/holy than another, another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. Rom14:5

 

[Original Happy Camper]

I asked you first for a thorough exegesis of romans 7:7-11 I will wait and see if you can give it

See above post #341
ex·e·ge·sis
ˌeksiˈjēsis/
noun

1. critical explanation or interpretation of a text, especially of scripture.
   "the task of biblical exegesis"
   synonyms: interpretation, explanation, exposition, explication
   "the exegesis of ancient texts"

 

[mark wright]

See above post #341
ex·e·ge·sis
ˌeksiˈjēsis/
noun

1. critical explanation or interpretation of a text, especially of scripture.
   "the task of biblical exegesis"
   synonyms: interpretation, explanation, exposition, explication
   "the exegesis of ancient texts"

I will leave it up to any independent observers as to whether they believe you could fully explain the verses you quoted( independant that is, not baised)

 

[mark wright]

See above post #341
ex·e·ge·sis
ˌeksiˈjēsis/
noun

1. critical explanation or interpretation of a text, especially of scripture.
   "the task of biblical exegesis"
   synonyms: interpretation, explanation, exposition, explication
   "the exegesis of ancient texts"

I will help you out a little bit( only a little)
In rom 7:4-6 Paul states the christian dies to the law so they can live for God.
Sinful passions are aroused in people by the law when they live under it.
The christian dies to what once bound them( the law) they have been released from the law so they serve in the new way of the spirit and not the old way of the written code.
Which law is Paul referring to in those verses?

In the following five verses he gives a personal example from his own life as to why he had to die to the law.
The example he gave was:
Thou shalt not covet.
Which is one of the ten commandments

 

[mark wright]

Rom 7:7-11

Paul the christian is looking back at the time the law came to him as a Pharisee. This would be when he came of age to make a personal commitment to God.
He stresses the law is not sin, but through knowledge of the law he became conscious of what sin was. For he had not known lust except the law had said. Thou shalt not covet.
But sin in Paul made use of the commandment to arouse all manner of concupiscence in Paul. Concupiscence breaks the tenth commandment.
Therefore, through Paul's knowledge of the law, and his attempt to obey it to attain eternal life,Sin became fully manifested in paul. Before the law came to Paul he would have broken the law for none are perfect. However, once he knew the law ( or was personally conscious of the law) he became a far worse sinner.
Paul states before the law came to him he felt alive, for there was no condemnation then, but once it did come, sin( consciousness) sprang to life in him and he died( felt condemned)
The commandment he believed would give him life if he obeyed it, instead brought death( condemnation) for he could not keep it.
For sin took advantage of the law and through it slew Paul.
Yet Paul stresses the law itself is holy, just and good, but sin worked death in him through what was good and holy.
Sin, through the commandment became utterly sinful in paul


A personal reflection by Paul, a personal example from his own life as to why he had to die to the law

 

[BobRyan]

I don't hate them.

Adventists believe Jesus is the archangel Michael. Which is not scriptural. Whether they are a cult or not I don't know.

This is not accurate -

Adventists believe in the Trinity. God the Son is incarnate as the Son of God - Jesus Christ on earth. But as we see in Genesis 18 and 19 God and the angels can "appear" in the form of a man if they so choose. What is more God the Son can appear in the form of the archangel Michael for His own purposes. God has angels and Satan in rebellion has his fallen angels - Angels either hold their allegiance to God or to Satan. But in Revelation 12 the Angels faithful to God - who serve God are said to be in the group "Michael and HiS Angels" and in Hebrews 1 God says "Let all the Angels of God worship him" they serve God the Son. Who appears in the form of Michael in their ranks as the "Archangel" the head of them all. It is a "form" he takes not - but not an incarnation.

in Genesis 18
18 Now the LORD (YHWH) appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth,...

16 Then the men rose up from there, and looked down toward Sodom; and Abraham was walking with them to send them off. 17 The LORD (YHWH) said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do, 18 since Abraham will surely become a great and mighty nation, and in him all the nations of the earth will be blessed? 19 For I have chosen him, so that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing righteousness and justice, so that the Lord may bring upon Abraham what He has spoken about him.” 20 And the LORD said, “The outcry of Sodom and Gomorrah is indeed great, and their sin is exceedingly grave. 21 I will go down now, and see if they have done entirely according to its outcry, which has come to Me; and if not, I will know.”

22 Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, while Abraham was still standing before the LORD

Genesis 19
Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening as Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground.

 

[BobRyan]

On YouTube I watched how the SDA are a cult. According to my dictionary there is nothing wrong with being a cult.

The SDA denomination is not a cult. In fact in the book "Kingdom of The Cults" by Walter Martin (Not an SDA) a number of different groups were reviewed - including the SDA church and Martin shows definatively that the SDA church is not a Cult.

In fact in 2015 Christianity Today stated that Adventists are the 5th largest Christian denomination world wide.

As for "hating SDAs" I think that is also not true for most normal people.

For example Dr. Ben Carson - a recent presidential candidate is SDA.

What is more "Hacksaw Ridge" is about Desmond Doss - an SDA soldier.

Neither of these guys is "hated" by normal people - as a general rule. And I have met them both.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

So are we to argue doctrines in this thread or are we to state whether or not we hate Seventh Day Adventists?

That is pretty funny! thanks for that one!

 

[Paul Yohannan]

Adventists believe in the Trinity.

@EastCoastRemnant and several others indicate they do not.

 

[EmmaCat]

Stop!! STOP!!!

Listen, we are all God's children. Quit the dang fussing and start praying for each other. I'm starting right now, praying for all of you.

I dare any of you to stop me.

God loves all of you and so do I.

Emmy

 

[BobRyan]

@EastCoastRemnant and several others indicate they do not.

Individuals here and there may claim whatever they wish - but when talking about a denomination if you want to know what the church actually teaches look at its statement of faith. Seventh-day Adventists have an official voted statement of beliefs - voted by the entire world church - with representatives from all over the world coming together every 5 years to review and confirm or change-if-needed their statement of beliefs.

Beliefs :: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church


Trinity (Fundamental Belief 2)
There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 14:7.) 1 John 5:7-10 KJV Mark 12:29-30

http://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf

And eastcoastRemnant will admit to this - the Adventist church - as a denomination believes exactly what you find there - the Trinity.

I myself might choose to have some odd idea or two - but I cannot in all honesty claim that whatever off the wall thing I happen to choose - is in fact the actual beliefs of the SDA denomination. For that you have to go to the actual voted statement of beliefs.

=========================== so then


1. We had 3 published statements of belief before Ellen White died - not one of them denied the Trinity.

2. IT was Ellen White who introduced "Third Person of the Godhead" terms into Adventist literature - and this turned the tide in favor the Trinitarian SDAs starting in the 1880's.

3. James White and others like him held such a wrong idea of the Trinity so as to oppose a doctrine that neither they nor any Christians today believe in.

For example

In 1855 J. James White published an article in the Review and Herald entitled “Preach the Word.” In dealing with Paul’s statement in 2 Timothy 4:4 “they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables” he wrote, “Here we might mention the Trinity, which does away the personality of God and His Son Jesus Christ, ....”


Joseph Bates wrote in 1868, “Respecting the trinity, I concluded that it was impossible for me to believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, was also the Almighty God, the Father, one and the same being.”


4. But as their view of the definition for the term became more accurate and their understanding of the nature of God improved - the men like James White and Uriah Smith began to see no real difference between their own view of God the Father and God the Son - vs - the Trinitarian one.


But in 1876 he wrote that “S. D. Adventists hold the divinity of Christ so nearly with the Trinitarians, that we apprehend no trial here.”38 And a year later he declared his belief in the equality of the Son with the Father and condemned any view as erroneous that “makes Christ inferior to the Father.”38 (2) Originally Uriah Smith and others taught that Christ was the first created being. Later he adopted the position that Christ was begotten not created (see p. 3 above).............................

37 (The Day Star, Jan 21, 1846)

38 (Review And Herald, Oct 12, 1876)

============================


Trinity (Fundamental Belief 2)
There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 14:7.) 1 John 5:7-10 KJV Mark 12:29-30


The power of evil had been strengthening for centuries, and the submission of men to this satanic captivity was amazing. Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. It is the Spirit that makes effectual what has been wrought out by the world’s Redeemer. It is by the Spirit that the heart is made pure. Through the Spirit the believer becomes a partaker of the divine nature. Christ has given His Spirit as a divine power to overcome all hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil, and to impress His own character upon His church. {DA 671.2}

We are to co-operate with the three highest powers in heaven,—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost,—and these powers will work through us, making us workers together with God.—Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, p. 51. (1905). {Ev 617.3}

—We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.—Manuscript 66, 1899 (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.). {Ev 616.5}

The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. When this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we believe and are sure that we are the children of God.... {Ev 616.6}

The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”—Manuscript 20, 1906. {Ev 617.1}

the eternal heavenly dignitaries—God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit—arming them [the disciples] with more than mortal energy, ... would advance with them to the work and convince the world of sin. Manuscript 145,

Jesus declared, “I am the resurrection, and the life.” In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. “He that hath the Son hath life.” The divinity of Christ is the believer’s assurance of eternal life.—The Desire of Ages, 530 (1898). {Ev 616.2}

 

[Paul Yohannan]

Individuals here and there may claim whatever they wish - but when talking about a denomination if you want to know what the church actually teaches look at its statement of faith. Seventh-day Adventists have an official voted statement of beliefs - voted by the entire world church - with representatives from all over the world coming together every 5 years to review and confirm or change-if-needed their statement of beliefs.

Beliefs :: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church

http://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf

And eastcoastRemnant will admit to this - the Adventist church - as a denomination believes exactly what you find there - the Trinity.

I myself might choose to have some odd idea or two - but I cannot in all honesty claim that whatever off the wall thing I happen to choose - is in fact the actual beliefs of the SDA denomination. For that you have to go to the actual voted statement of beliefs.

Indeed so. On this point I am merely dismayed to note that the SDA apparently allows members to derogate from its statement of faith in such a vital area.

 

[BobRyan]

Indeed so. On this point I am merely dismayed to note that the SDA apparently allows members to derogate from its statement of faith in such a vital area.

You can find that view shared by some inside the denomination as well.

A pastor that denies the trinity for example would be fired. But individual members have a lot of lee way in what they say in private or what they say even to friends in church about what they believe. I know ex-SDAs on this very board that claim they still attend and keep their names on the books just to try and change the minds of their friends at church.

In any case we don't do much policing of the group when this or that member decides not to accept some of the actual doctrines -- voted by the denomination.

 

[BobRyan]

Stop!! STOP!!!

Listen, we are all God's children. Quit the dang fussing and start praying for each other. I'm starting right now, praying for all of you.

I dare any of you to stop me.

God loves all of you and so do I.

Emmy

Thanks Emmy - we all should pray for one another.

I for one don't mind a bit - having someone who is not of my denomination ask about some doctrine that I hold or present a good Bible case for why they think a different doctrine would be better. I rather enjoy doing that Bible study and find that those who engage in that spirit are often great people to know and learn from.

Maybe the thread just has a poor title.

So in the spirit of cooperation I have started a thread where we can discuss the same points - but without such a poorly named title.

"Why do people like Seventh-day Adventists and Adventist doctrine?"
3 minutes ago #1

People can still share their differences but don't need to feel like they are being unchristian to share on a thread with such a poor title.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Paul's name was Saul prior to his conversion please remember that when reading these verses.

The main subject of these verses is the Law plain and simple. He is establishing that the law is everlasting as it is the law of God is holy, perfect, righteous and good.
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Here is a great place to show that .

Ephesians 6:2 - says that the 5th commandment is binding upon all Christians AND that it is "The first commandment with a promise" -- so here is the quesiton ... "First commandment in what unit of LAW"? There is only one in all of scripture where the first commandment with a promise - is the 5th commandment. And that unit -- is the TEN Commandments.

hence 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

And then there is Rev 14:12 "the saints keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

Of course SDAs are not the only ones teaching that the TEN commandments (ALL TEN) are still valid.

Even the vast majority of pro-sunday scholars teach that Bible truth.

As we see here --

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

And of course 7th day groups

Seventh-day Baptists
Seventh-day Adventists
(and 100's of others)

 

[mmksparbud]

There is one thing else to mention.
No one who understands the truth of the Christian Gospel and follows it can wake up one morning and decide they don't want God in their life anymore.
Many go to church who sadly do not know the truth. They do not understand the truth of the message.
I have chatted to muslims who claim they were once christians, but when pressed could not tell me the truth of the Gospel message:
They went out from us but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us they would have remained with us. But their going showed Tha none of them belonged to us
1 john: 2:19

Don't get out much, do you? Yes, it does happen. No one knows what goes on in the heart of anyone, except God. I've known of several people who did just that. They never belonged?? How would you know? Does it frighten you to think someone can just walk away rom God? It happens for many reasons. There have been those that harbored rebellion for a long time, slowly growing, those that end up believing everything they once believed is just a fairy tail, those that have been disillusioned by others, or think they have been let down by God Himself. For me, I always believed in God, I believed He existed, I was just very angry at Him for everything that happened to me and as soon as I could I walked away. For one, it haooenend when his wife he'd known since they were 16 was not healed of cancer at the age of 32, then his father was not healed at 61 and he had prayed so earnestly for their healing so he walked away. You may think he was never a real, true believer, but he was. One was a priest, one was a Methodist, very active in the church, 4 kids and a lovely wife all sang together at their church. Literally, he got up one morning and told his wife he no longer wanted to have God in his life or be married and walked away from everyone. Yes, you can walk away not only from a church, but from God.

 

[mmksparbud]

You know, I've asked several times, and no one gives me an answer.

Why is it that no one argues the fact that no unrepentant adulterer, liar, thief murderer will get into heaven? Will someone who takes the name of God in vain get there? Will anyone that bears false witness? Will anyone who breaks any of the 9 commandments, and remains unrepentant, get into heaven??? I have yet to meet anyone who will say "Yes! They are saved by grace and do not need to repent!" Will someone here say that??
And when I ask the next logical question, then what is the answer?----Why only the 9, but when it comes to the 4th, it then doesn't matter what God says, we are under grace and we can break that one commandment, remain unrepentant, and still get into heaven because all of a sudden, for this ONE commandment---it just doesn't matter. If you feel free to remove one of the 10, why not one of the others? Why not dishonor your parents?--that really is not mentioned much anyway, not on the Rev list.