Why do people hate the Seventh Day Adventists?

[mark wright]

I have strong anti Trinitarian views yet I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, Divine in nature, begotten from the Father... what's your point?

May I ask, do you have strong anti trinitarian views, or strong anti equal trinitarian views?

The reason I ask is. Everyone I have ever known who attends a trinitarian church accepts a trinity, but many do not accept an equal trinity.
In other words, they believe the father is the only true God and greater than the son.
Indeed, I would estimate that roughly half of people in trinitarian churches believe that way, for hardly any of their ministers plainly state from the pulpit official trinitarian doctrine.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

May I ask, do you have strong anti trinitarian views, or strong anti equal trinitarian views?

The reason I ask is. Everyone I have ever known who attends a trinitarian church accepts a trinity, but many do not accept an equal trinity.
In other words, they believe the father is the only true God and greater than the son.
Indeed, I would estimate that roughly half of people in trinitarian churches believe that way, for hardly any of their ministers plainly state from the pulpit official trinitarian doctrine.

Yes, that would be fair to say.. I view the Father Son relationship as hierarchal and not equal.

 

[mark wright]

Yes, that would be fair to say.. I view the Father Son relationship as hierarchal and not equal.

Take some good advice. Don't discuss the subject on the internet!!!

I agree with you BTW

 

[Sketcher]

Would you say that the Captain of the Lords host is the same as the Archangel... arch meaning head of?

I would say the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three Persons of the one God, co-equal and uncreated, each performing different roles. The angels are completely distinct from God and report to Him. And that angels have certain responsibilities.

 

[Fishsack]

I don't hate them..my next door neibour is SDA..One of the finest people I have had the pleasure to be associated with.

My cousins are SDA.. I couldn't be more blessed to have them as family.... great great people

 

[mmksparbud]

Anyone that thinks they fully understand the Trinity is delusional. I don't think we'll comprehend it until we can see it for ourselves, if then. God the Father seems to be at the top of the triangle, however
Php_2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Joh_5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
I reject the view that they are the same entity, for Jesus is clearly subservient to Him. And I've never fully understood the Holy Spirit either, and again, do not think we can yet. All I know is that there is only one God, but there is the Son and the Holy Spirit and all 3 are God. Not even Einstein can figure that one out.

 

[mmksparbud]

Take some good advice. Don't discuss the subject on the internet!!!

I agree with you BTW

Why not? They can't show up on my doorstep!!

 

[mark wright]

Why not? They can't show up on my doorstep!!

At the tender age of 50 I ventured onto internet debating websites such as these. I entered a thread with the question:
Did Jesus claim to be God when he walked this earth?
In my naivety I left a comment stating:
No he did not.
I was immediately hounded by a Pentecostal who told me I was misleading people. I couldn't believe it! I had gone to various trinitarian churches for over forty years and never once heard it stated from the pulpit. Christ is God himself.
I spent two weeks ignoring my persecutor and his taunts for a debate on the subject. Unfortunately, I then gave into the flesh and entered the fray!
You gotta quickly know the relevant scripture verses when you do that!
Many then wanted to discuss the subject with me. On that website and another I discussed it far too much. It did me no good, nor those I debated it with. I didn't particularly mind being told I was possessed by demons, unsaved, in need of psychiatric help and much more, simply because I solely title Christ the son of God. But the debate is pointless. The best remark I heard was by an ex trinitarian minister who said:
The difference in thinking is in the title of Christ, not his nature/essence. That is true.
Many on the internet do not reflect the preaching of the ministers in trinitarian pulpits on this issue. On the internet they demand the official letter of doctrine be accepted. However, how many ministers do you know who would actually stand in the pulpit and state:
If you believe Jesus is the son of God but not the one true God you are condemned to hell.
The ministers I like to think see the bigger picture. Many on the internet do not. I had a couple of good friends on the site, the friendships became badly strained due to discussing this subject.
Its up to you of course if you want to spend time in discussion of it. But for me, I wish I had never given in to that Pentecostals goading. I would have been a happier person, and had more peace by not doing so
BTW
You are right in your comment concerning people who claim to fully understand trinity. As a minister said to me on one website:
Anyone who claims to perfectly understand trinity shows how little they truly know of the subject

 

[Paul Yohannan]

First, I don't think that recognition equates 'hate'. To recognize that SDA have chosen an improper path does not equate 'hate'. I do not hate SDAs.

But I would point out that their 'religion' is based upon the delirious visions of a 'sick woman'. Since women are instructed to remain 'silent in the church', I find it difficult to accept a 'religion' created by a delirious woman.

Second, I have witnessed these that insist that the Sabbath is to be kept 'holy'. Then leave their Saturday Service and go to a restaurant together to sit and eat together. While they insist that it's WRONG to 'work' on the Sabbath, they find nothing WRONG with having others 'work for them' on the Sabbath.

If we 'are' our brother's keepers, if we ARE to offer the proper example, how does one suppose that it's WRONG for them to work on the Sabbath for the sake of their very souls, yet find nothing 'wrong' with encouraging others to work FOR THEM on the Sabbath? Seems kind of like a 'double standard' to me. "Come, join us in our proper worship of God by obeying the Sabbath. Stop working on the Sabbath and allow OTHERS to do so FOR YOU". You know, kind of like saying, "Yes, it is wrong to kill. But it's ok to pay someone to do it for you".

And how would one explain the SDAs owning hospitals and charging in the manner that they DO? Is there really ANYTHING any MORE worldly than hospitals in our present society? And find it OK to take their 'brothers and sisters' in Christ to the COURTS of the 'world' in order to make them pay their outrageous 'charges'.

No, if one does a cursory study of the history of the SDA, it is perfectly clear that it is nothing other than a 'woman made religion'. More about the visions of a delirious woman than what we are offered in the Bible.

Blessings,

MEC

Very true.

And you once said I never agree with you!

 

[DoubtfulSalvation]

You can't ignite a fire on the sabbath, so you can't start a car. That is all.

 

[DoubtfulSalvation]

You also can't go farther then a mile from your house also.

 

[mmksparbud]

Pretty clear you all don't know what the Sabbath commandment is about.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Nothing there about how long from your house you can go. This is what is meant. It is a day to sped entirely in the company of God--not doing stuff that is purely for our own pleasure but that God and us can spend some quality time together.

Isa_58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

 

[DoubtfulSalvation]

Pretty clear you all don't know what the Sabbath commandment is about.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Nothing there about how long from your house you can go. This is what is meant. It is a day to sped entirely in the company of God--not doing stuff that is purely for our own pleasure but that God and us can spend some quality time together.

Isa_58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Yea, no. You are mistaken here. Sorry. Either keep it as it's in the bible or just admit that you can't, or change things to fit your modern world view and call it godly. Whatever.

2 No kindling of a fire (Ex. 35:3). No fellowship cookouts or barbecues. You can't go into a restaurant and get a hamburger that's been flame broiled, you can't cook eggs, or pancakes in the morning because you'd be kindling a fire for cooking. To drive a car would be to "kindle a fire" In the combustion chamber of your engine.

3. No traveling (Ex. 16:29). Later the Jews added to this law, allowing only a half mile of travel on the Sabbath which we see observed in the NT. But the pure law says "stay at home." Actually, If you kept this part of the law, you could not travel to your church gathering unless it was less than one-quarter mile away from home. If you had an emergency you could not drive to the hospital.

 

[DoubtfulSalvation]

For more information that will undoubtedly be ignored.

http://www.letusreason.org/7thAd4.htm

 

[mmksparbud]

Yea, no. You are mistaken here. Sorry. Either keep it as it's in the bible or just admit that you can't, or change things to fit your modern world view and call it godly. Whatever.

2 No kindling of a fire (Ex. 35:3). No fellowship cookouts or barbecues. You can't go into a restaurant and get a hamburger that's been flame broiled, you can't cook eggs, or pancakes in the morning because you'd be kindling a fire for cooking. To drive a car would be to "kindle a fire" In the combustion chamber of your engine.

3. No traveling (Ex. 16:29). Later the Jews added to this law, allowing only a half mile of travel on the Sabbath which we see observed in the NT. But the pure law says "stay at home." Actually, If you kept this part of the law, you could not travel to your church gathering unless it was less than one-quarter mile away from home. If you had an emergency you could not drive to the hospital.

Sorry, but the commandment is very clear. Anything else is part of the Levitical law and not a part of the 10---they are rules that the priests came up with, but rest assured that I have not kindled a fire in my entire life---Sabbath or not.
To kindle means to start---what they did in ancient Israel was to light candles, and keep them going, light the fire and keep it going. They now turn on the lights and keep them on. Some of the more strict Jews today, remove the refrigerator light so it won't turn on when the door opens, and I knew a friend who said they tear their toilet paper to avoid tearing it on the Sabbath. That is not mentioned in the commandment!
There no mention of fire, or batteries or how far to walk in the commandments, the ones that God wrote with His own finger and that were placed in the ark. This is why Jesus was accused of breaking the Sabbath by the Pharisees, but Jesus never broke the commandments God.

 

[mark wright]

If you take the levitical unclean foods.
Paul states in rom 14:20
All food is clean.
Yet many still avoid the levitical unclean food believing you really are unclean I you eat them.
Jesus gave us the true spiritual meaning of what brings uncleanliness:

Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside(food) can make him unclean. For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.
He went on
What comes out of a man makes him unclean. For from within out of mens hearts come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a person unclean
Mark7:18-23

It is not therefore what you eat that makes you truly unclean, but the wrong on the inside of you that makes you unclean.

You would not know or understand such truth by solely reading the letter of OT law.
Therefore if you hinge your understanding/ beliefs on the letter of the law there is much you will not understand

 

[mmksparbud]

If you take the levitical unclean foods.
Paul states in rom 14:20
All food is clean.
Yet many still avoid the levitical unclean food believing you really are unclean I you eat them.
Jesus gave us the true spiritual meaning of what brings uncleanliness:

Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside(food) can make him unclean. For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.
He went on
What comes out of a man makes him unclean. For from within out of mens hearts come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a person unclean
Mark7:18-23

It is not therefore what you eat that makes you truly unclean, but the wrong on the inside of you that makes you unclean.

You would not know or understand such truth by solely reading the letter of OT law.

The food laws had an added blessing.

Exo_15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.
And you can poopoo the whole thing all you want., Bottom line, the research clearly shows that SDA who follow the health principles, live longer and healthier lives. Of those that are vegetarian, they live even longer and healthier. God instituted the idea of what to eat and what not to eat because, as our Creator, He knows what is best for us. It's not a matter of being unclean in body or not, it is a matter of what is healthier for us. We have a duty to take car of the temple that God has given us, it is His dwelling place. And just why wouldn't you want to live longer and healthier?

 

[mark wright]

The food laws had an added blessing.

Exo_15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.
And you can poopoo the whole thing all you want., Bottom line, the research clearly shows that SDA who follow the health principles, live longer and healthier lives. Of those that are vegetarian, they live even longer and healthier. God instituted the idea of what to eat and what not to eat because, as our Creator, He knows what is best for us. It's not a matter of being unclean in body or not, it is a matter of what is healthier for us. We have a duty to take car of the temple that God has given us, it is His dwelling place. And just why wouldn't you want to live longer and healthier?

Why wouldn't I want to live longer?

I desire to depart( the body) and be with Christ which is better by far Phil 1:23

Bring on the unhealthy food!

 

[mark wright]

The food laws had an added blessing.

Exo_15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.
QUOTE]
BTW

The Israelites avoided unclean foods but suffered worse diseases ultimately than the Egyptians did. WHY?

What then shall we say? That the gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have obtained it, a righteousness that I by faith. But israel who pursued a law of righteousness has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith ith but as it were by works
Rom 9:30-32

I guess they just looked to the letter of the law and believed if they obeyed all of Gods statutes they would be blessed and avoid the diseases the Egyptians did. That was their focus, the literal letter. They couldn't then see the spiritual truth behind the letter, they were blinded to it

 

[mark wright]

The food laws had an added blessing.

Exo_15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.
And you can poopoo the whole thing all you want., Bottom line, the research clearly shows that SDA who follow the health principles, live longer and healthier lives. Of those that are vegetarian, they live even longer and healthier. God instituted the idea of what to eat and what not to eat because, as our Creator, He knows what is best for us. It's not a matter of being unclean in body or not, it is a matter of what is healthier for us. We have a duty to take car of the temple that God has given us, it is His dwelling place. And just why wouldn't you want to live longer and healthier?

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On my previous post to you. My apologies, somehow did the post wrong