Why do people even want to put evolution in the equation?

[steve78]

God created man in his image and breathed into us the breath of life. All in 6 days. He spoke it into being . And it is complete. Evolution says we're expanding through a never ending universe at 515000 mph on a rotating ball and there's trillions of other galaxies. God created us. In 6 days not 4.5billion years

Each of those 6 days are several million years in length.

 

[steve78]

I in a believe stationary, disc shaped earth. With a literal underworld beneath us.

You believe in a load of nonsense. Your much smarter than this.

 

[The Barbarian]

So you"know" how it works?

Yep. Directly observable. Mutation and natural selection accounts for evolution. Again, I'm thinking you don't know what biological evolution actually is. I'll ask again; what do you think it is?

Then would accepting that as truth, not make the Bible a liar?

It would not. It would make some creationists mistaken in their revision of Genesis. But there is no conflict between God and the creation that He made. As St. Augustine pointed out, man can be wrong, but God certainly was not wrong in the way He made this world.

No matter what creationists say.

 

[The Barbarian]

Well I am a young Earth creationist. I'm actually a flat hollow earth believer. and I wouldn't say I have the most Orthodox doctrinal opinions on the Bible I believe that it is literal that it has figurative and metaphorical meanings and that there are some deep deep meanings and there's some downright mysteries. The gospel and the road to salvation is what lay the foundations for Christians I agree. But with so many evolutionist and atheist advocating for evolution and singularity event and the heliocentric model.

You've already lost your way. The "singularity event" (whatever you think that is) and the heliocentric model are not in any way part of evolutionary theory. Again, I'm thinking that you've confused evolution with science generally. What do you think biological evolution is?

I don't see how it has been official for Christians to try to confirm or make sense of evolution

Neither evolution nor creationism has anything to do with Christian belief. You could be a Christian and accept the fact of evolution or not accept it. You're still a Christian, unless creationism has become an idol for you.

You seem very reluctant to tell us what you think biological evolution is. I think I know why.

 

[The Barbarian]

Evolution is a lie from the devil to make us think that we're insignificant flying through infinite space and we happened by chance we came from a rock essentially.

Nope. None of that is part of evolutionary theory. No wonder you think you hate it. I'd hate it too, if I thought it was like that.

 

[The Barbarian]

Okay, well I agree that there I guess is somewhat a system of oversight and peer review. Personally don't have enough confidence Faith or trust in these organizations to have enough confidence that they are not corrupt lying or blatantly deceiving us.

I knew a professor of bacteriology (who happened to be a devoted Christian) whose motto in his office was "In God we trust; everyone else needs to present data."

I mean we have a system in place to ensure secure and fair elections but we just had an election stolen right in front of our faces and everyone knows it

Actually, most Americans realize that the election was fair and that no significant cheating occurred. In fact, the largest case of attempted cheating happened to have been perpetrated by republicans.

Republicans caught conspiring to commit mass election fraud in Pennsylvania

Republicans are pushing voters to turn in absentee ballots by Friday's deadline — in violation of state law
Republicans caught conspiring to commit mass election fraud in Pennsylvania

They got caught, so it failed.

so what makes you think that NASA or a company that has the prerogative to lie about creation and evolution to be honest to the people?

Can you show me anything NASA has published with regard to biological evolution?

 

[The Barbarian]

I believe in a stationary, disc shaped earth. With a literal underworld beneath us.

That would be hard to fit with things like the fact that you can launch larger payloads into space by launching a rocket eastward rather than westward.

 

[FaithT]

I believe in a stationary, disc shaped earth. With a literal underworld beneath us.

Oh, I see.

 

[BoomsTheory]

Sounds almost as crazy as us spending on a ball a thousand miles an hour going through an ever-expanding universe at 515,000 miles an hour and somehow all the stars lining up and we don't ever feel any motion or anything lol

 

[BoomsTheory]

That would be hard to fit with things like the fact that you can launch larger payloads into space by launching a rocket eastward rather than westward.

Okay so interesting theory do you think that the payload difference between East and West has anything to do with Satan getting kicked out of heaven from the East Adam and Eve being exiled from the garden of Eden through the East and cane heading east when he was cursed

 

[BoomsTheory]

I knew a professor of bacteriology (who happened to be a devoted Christian) whose motto in his office was "In God we trust; everyone else needs to present data."
Sure I'll send you some links. Do you have the patience and the desire for truth enough to look at the evidence and make your own judgment because there's plenty of proof that the Hubble telescope is fake that the international space station is fake and there's evidence of them using green screens multiple times in space there's bubbles in space during their space walks which proves that they're doing it underwater to give it the zero gravity effect. And NASA has the same logo as the Apollo missions all space aeronautic programs in the world have the same Apollo logo which Apollo was the Greek sun god NASA is pronounced in neshak or serpent in Hebrew. And yeah of course they have a prerogative and a motivation to lie to us because you don't make it to these levels of authority and power in this world without being in on the law there's so much it doesn't make sense and they've been caught faking space walks and stuff before here's a documents and information feel free to go through it http://nasalies.org/. WHALE




Can you show me anything NASA has published with regard to biological evolution?

 

[BoomsTheory]

You've already lost your way. The "singularity event" (whatever you think that is) and the heliocentric model are not in any way part of evolutionary theory. Again, I'm thinking that you've confused evolution with science generally. What do you think biological evolution is?



Neither evolution nor creationism has anything to do with Christian belief. You could be a Christian and accept the fact of evolution or not accept it. You're still a Christian, unless creationism has become an idol for you.

You seem very reluctant to tell us what you think biological evolution is. I think I know why.

It's not about being an idol for me it's about the truth and you can't be a true Christian and have faith in the word of God if you're going to try to use circular reasoning to make your own theories or assumptions fit into the Bible. And yeah creation and evolution really does make a difference when it comes to being a Christian. God created us in his image he did not create a monkey and then we came from that and I know it biological evolution is which you're basically referring to species specific or microevolution which is where there are small genetic mutations and adaptations over time within species that allow them to very indiffer but you're never going to get where one species completely turns into another species. A horse will never turn into a zebra a monkey will never turn into a human but yes humans can develop natural selection in the genetic process for the most beneficial attributes to be predominant. But the fact that you as a Christian are trying to defend evolution so strongly makes me question if you really have faith in the word of God because you can't believe we evolved from monkey's wallet at the same time believing we were created in the image and my revolution is what you're talking about then that's irrelevant and I don't see why you're going to try to use this to confirm a cosign the darwinian theory of evolution

 

[BoomsTheory]

Each of those 6 days are several million years in length.

And what gives you that assumption? Did the Bible say it took millions of years? Or 6 days? You can't make scripture fit your opinions. You can't just add or take words from the Bible with any good conscience. What in the scripture gives you any reason to believe that each day was like a million years? Do you not think God is powerful enough to do it in 6 days why do you think it would take him millions of years to do it if you spoke it into existence. It's starting to seem like we got a bunch of atheist on here trying to troll people and deceive believers spread some misinformation in my opinion because I've spent most of your time trying to convince me that God created us with biological evolution and it took 6 million years for creation and the evolution in science hold weight over faith in the holy Bible

 

[BoomsTheory]

You believe in a load of nonsense. Your much smarter than this.

Bro I'm not a fool I know I'm smart but every time I try to explain to people that evolution is a straight-up lie I've got a bunch of so-called Christians trying to defend science and evolution and all of this stuff and completely twisting scripture to fit what they wanted to say

 

[BoomsTheory]

Yep. Directly observable. Mutation and natural selection accounts for evolution. Again, I'm thinking you don't know what biological evolution actually is. I'll ask again; what do you think it is?

All right so here again you just continue to try to defend evolution at every chance possible and defend the science and defend that viewpoint but no one has once taking the same amount of defensiveness toward creationism so I'm just confused at how y'all want to just throw creation out the window and adopt this evolution and only focus on the evolutionary aspect and try to twist words and cram evolution into creation. Obviously any mutations or genetic discrepancies that occur is because God designed it that way specifically and not out of natural chance

 

[The Barbarian]

All right so here again you just continue to try to defend evolution at every chance possible and defend the science and defend that viewpoint but no one has once taking the same amount of defensiveness toward creationism

I'm not saying that you're being defensive. I'm just showing you what 's known. There are forms of creationism that don't deny God's word in Genesis. Many creationists now admit the fact of speciation, and even the evolution of higher taxa like genera and families. They don't like to call it "evolution", though. Which is alright. Darwin didn't either. He preferred "descent with modification." Would you be good with that?

Obviously any mutations or genetic discrepancies that occur is because God designed it that way specifically and not out of natural chance

You're pretty close to the truth here. God did indeed create a world in which living populations would have the ability to adapt to new conditions. But Luria and Delbruck got their Nobels for showing that mutations do not arise in response to need. They occur randomly, and when conditions favor them, they increase in a population.

This is certainly what God intended:

Ecclesiastes 9:11 I turned me to another thing, and I saw that under the sun, the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to the learned, nor favour to the skilful: but time and chance in all.

So how can God's will be implemented by chance?

It's easy to think that God would be unable to use random processes to effect his will, but that's not a problem for an omnipotent Creator:

"The effect of divine providence is not only that things should happen somehow; but that they should happen either by necessity or by contingency. Therefore whatsoever divine providence ordains to happen infallibly and of necessity happens infallibly and of necessity; and that happens from contingency, which the plan of divine providence conceives to happen from contingency."
St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, question 22, article 4.

 

[The Barbarian]

It's not about being an idol for me it's about the truth and you can't be a true Christian and have faith in the word of God if you're going to try to use circular reasoning to make your own theories or assumptions fit into the Bible.

Creationists don't think they are making their own assumptions fit into the Bible. Most of them honestly believe that the Bible actually says those things. The good news is that you can be a creationist and still be saved.

And yeah creation and evolution really does make a difference when it comes to being a Christian.

Not according to Jesus. He makes it very clear what matters. And your opinion of how He created living things, is not something that matters. If it was, He would have said so.

God created us in his image

The image is in our minds and souls, not our bodies. As Jesus says, God is a spirit. And Jesus clearly rules out a body for spirits:

Luke 24:39 See my hands and feet, that it is I myself; handle, and see: for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as you see me to have.

he did not create a monkey and then we came from that

You're right. Monkeys are far too evolved in other ways to have given rise to humans.

and I know it biological evolution is which you're basically referring to species specific or microevolution which is where there are small genetic mutations and adaptations over time within species that allow them to very indiffer but you're never going to get where one species completely turns into another species.

Answers in Genesis, a YE creationist organization says:
Before the time of Charles Darwin, a false idea had crept into the church—the belief in the “fixity” or “immutability” of species. According to this view, each species was created in precisely the same form that we find it today. The Bible nowhere teaches that species are fixed and unchanging.
Speciation

But the fact that you as a Christian are trying to defend evolution so strongly

I'm just showing you that it doesn't matter to your salvation. God doesn't care if you won't admit that one species evolves from another. It's not how your eternal home will be determined. Theology won't save you. Listen to what Jesus says about that.

As you see, evolution of new species is so well-documented, that even many YE creationists admit the fact. (they prefer not to use the "E-word" though)

 

[The Barbarian]

That would be hard to fit with things like the fact that you can launch larger payloads into space by launching a rocket eastward rather than westward.

Okay so interesting theory do you think that the payload difference between East and West has anything to do with Satan getting kicked out of heaven from the East Adam and Eve being exiled from the garden of Eden through the East and cane heading east when he was cursed

Only if Newton's second law applies to spirits. And since spirits lack a body (and therefore lack mass), it would not apply to Satan.

Nor would it apply to any being held on the ground by gravity. And of course, the Bible does not say that Adam and Eve were sent out of Eden to the east. Much later, after Cain killed Abel, he went to live east of Eden, not Adam, or Eve.

 

[BoomsTheory]

That would be hard to fit with things like the fact that you can launch larger payloads into space by launching a rocket eastward rather than westward.



Only if Newton's second law applies to spirits. And since spirits lack a body (and therefore lack mass), it would not apply to Satan.

Nor would it apply to any being held on the ground by gravity. And of course, the Bible does not say that Adam and Eve were sent out of Eden to the east. Much later, after Cain killed Abel, he went to live east of Eden, not Adam, or Eve.

Okay, You're right. I was mistaken.

Creationists don't think they are making their own assumptions fit into the Bible. Most of them honestly believe that the Bible actually says those things. The good news is that you can be a creationist and still be saved.



Not according to Jesus. He makes it very clear what matters. And your opinion of how He created living things, is not something that matters. If it was, He would have said so.



The image is in our minds and souls, not our bodies. As Jesus says, God is a spirit. And Jesus clearly rules out a body for spirits:

Luke 24:39 See my hands and feet, that it is I myself; handle, and see: for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as you see me to have.



You're right. Monkeys are far too evolved in other ways to have given rise to humans.



Answers in Genesis, a YE creationist organization says:
Before the time of Charles Darwin, a false idea had crept into the church—the belief in the “fixity” or “immutability” of species. According to this view, each species was created in precisely the same form that we find it today. The Bible nowhere teaches that species are fixed and unchanging.
Speciation



I'm just showing you that it doesn't matter to your salvation. God doesn't care if you won't admit that one species evolves from another.

Alright bro. I will gladly explain your misunderstandings and correct any errors in your new age deception.
So to start off a good majority of your sources and scholars you mentioned are both( unprovable, and irrelevant. When a matter involves the Holy Bible in a way that seeks to undermine its reliability and truth. Your Darwin and your creationist that you say now agree that maybe the story of Genesis is different than we thought because of the science. I can find evolution is to or brought to believe in God but that would be cherry picking sources. But when it comes down to biblical truth, a philosopher or a scientist , or a creationist who says he now doubts Genesis account. None have any authority over God's word.
Taking man's thought and ideas and intelligence and trying to compare that or put that over God's word is foolish. I'm not saying I don't believe in science and that I don't believe in the reactive change of the human genome. But I see what you're doing and you talk like a serpent. Simply because these people claim their creationist and say they're Christian does not mean they represent everyone. And there are many different denominations of Christianity and there are many false doctrines and false teachings. It's not just that it's the principle behind it but I'll get that later.
You're trying to compare Darwin or man to God's capability and that is one of the original senses pride in boastfulness arrogance and you can't just go saying that some science that this guy formulated has proven Genesis inaccurate. That's here she at the least and it ar throw one book of the bottle and a question then anything someone doesn't like or understand that now leaves that open to be contorted twisted in manipulated into whatever anybody wants it to mean to them. And that's not what Jesus preached. And you were mistaken when you reference Jesus saying that he says it doesn't matter where we believe we came from it doesn't have anything to do with salvation or our place in heaven????????
Jesus was when we were created because we were made in their image so you don't think Jesus wants you to acknowledge where you truly came from and who truly made you instead of willfully twisting scripture to undermine biblical integrity. You put your faith and energy behind Darwin ,science ,and fools knowledge.
So use this for a comparison, if you are skeptical of creation because it's nothing that you can physically hold or have any tangible matter for it. Because creationism would be just the thought or a conviction.
Well the same can be said about your way of reasoning by physics and scientific and mathematic formulas hypothesis or theories. It just as equally unable to physically prove there's no matter weight density or anything for those thoughts theories and ideas.
So you're really choosing to put your faith in a guy who had an idea and science which you cannot prove over the word of God and your consciously it seems like, to be a wolf in sheep's clothing trying to spread on sound and unbiblical teachings.
"You're right. Monkeys are far too evolved in other ways to have given rise to humans."
So you claim your Christian but you're proclaiming that primates are more evolved than man which God created in his image. You say that you only believe in only biological evolution and my revolution. But then you're comparing us to monkeys while saying there more evolved. Lol.


And if you're Christian and you're a familiar with eschatology and end times events, you would know about in times deception. Satan deceiving the whole world false prophets and teachers in the church doctrines of demons coming about and a great falling away from the faith. If you're a true Christian then you know Satan yours is deceiving spirits and I tried to pervert the church and destroy the church. You're trying to get people to turn towards science and take the Bible less seriously when you know yourself that you're trying to deceive them that's the sad part. you probably are familiar or Jesus said you better not lead the little ones astray or you're better off tying a millstone to your neck.
Jesus makes it very clear not to add her take away from the scripture. And God also promised that he would preserve his word.
And your intentionally trying to mislead people and distort what the word is really saying. What do you mean by " you can be a creationist and be saved too". ??
Cuz it seems like you're implying that majority of Christians, and Jews, believe that the Bible teaches of evolution ??? There's absolutely no scripture you could reference at all that suggest evolution. It's a fact that majority of Christians and Jews believe in creation. Adam and eve in the garden of Eden. We all agree on a flood. We all agree on the cross.
Our difference of opinion isn't an issue because we're in America and we still have freedom. But I don't understand any reason why you would want to call God a liar and say the Bible's flawed. That's going to do more harm than good to any Christians or any one new to the faith who is trying to walk close with Jesus and get to know the heavenly father. The source for the truth is the Bible and you're putting up references to Darwin and some other clowns. Do you not know that God is much smarter than all of us and the wise man's going to fall victim to his own wisdom.
What show me who are like a respect for the divine nature of God's word is how you represent Jesus and what he said. Jesus said obey the father do not doubt the father God cannot tell a lie. Are you going to sit here and tell people that God lied because the Bible is God's Divine inspired word. Any man will ever be able to comprehend. The genealogy in the Bible gives us a pretty narrow window to determine the age of earth. The Bible clearly states that the Earth is stationary and that creation has been finished which debunks any chance at there being a infinitely expanding universe. So there's another lot you're telling to people trying to find Christ.
You sound like an atheist that's on a Christian forum because you're trying to cause them to doubt or disbelief religion. I hope that's not the case but from the context of your argument and the sources you regard your authorities it really seems like you just trolling. Hope you have a good night you should probably be more cautious claiming the Bible teaches evolution and you can't believe in evolution and creation to be a Christian bro. There is nowhere in the biblical story for 4.5 billion years of humanity evolving. The Bible is very precise is very well researched it's been proven time and time again. And it's really not even a debate because if you believe we evolved from monkeys which essentially you're saying happened, then you don't believe in God's word. You really can't have it both ways. Reading the Bible alone does not make you a Christian there's many people that know the Bible but are pro-abortion and probate marriage. All living in willful sin. Tisk tisk

 

[The Barbarian]

So to start off a good majority of your sources and scholars you mentioned are both( unprovable, and irrelevant.

I cited the Bible, provable statements by creationists, and peer-reviewed science. All of it can be confirmed. If you doubt this, cite one case, and I'll show you.

When a matter involves the Holy Bible in a way that seeks to undermine its reliability and truth.

I don't think you're doing that. You're just a fallible human like the rest of us, capable of being wrong about scripture.

Your Darwin and your creationist that you say now agree that maybe the story of Genesis is different than we thought because of the science.

AiG is right about the fact that a false notion crept into Christian thinking, in assuming that new species do not evolve. Nowhere does the Bible make such a statement.

I can find evolution is to or brought to believe in God but that would be cherry picking sources.

You can find Christians who believe the Earth is flat, or that there are no galaxies or that there is no such thing as speciation. They are still Christians. One's opinion of those things is of no concern to God.

The Bible clearly states that the Earth is stationary

It also clearly states that pi is equal to 3.0. Which is wrong. The author merely rounded off the number, not having decimal notation to properly represent the true value. And when a geologist says that at the end of an earthquake, the Earth stopped moving, he was using a figure of speech. Why would you deny the same usage to God?

and that creation has been finished

Are you and I not creatures of God? If not, who did create us? If so, when did newborns cease to be creations? The Earth has observably changed over time, so that debunks any argument that change in creation is ruled out in scriptures.

But when it comes down to biblical truth, a philosopher or a scientist , or a creationist who says he now doubts Genesis account.

To be fair to Answers in Genesis, they deny your particular interpretation of the Genesis account. But we are all fallible. I notice that we are all (or nearly all of us) in agreement WRT the things that matter to salvation. Some creationists may deny things like speciation, the creation of new humans, and so on, but none have any authority over God's word.

Taking man's thought and ideas and intelligence and trying to compare that or put that over God's word is foolish.