Why do people blame calvinists ?

[StillGods]

How do you describe your inner experience if born again?

so it's a no, you are not born again?

 

[StillGods]

are you saying there are no born again reformed believer in this world ?

being assured of their salvation is not usual amongst calvinists.

 

[Butch5]

You spoke about John 6:44 only applying in the context of that time not verbatim. And if one does that,we do it to all the Bible but I think you have agreed people work things together to what they believe. Just wanted to bring that initial point up.

I believe it's all about context. I find often that people will take passages of Scripture and just randomly apply them to all kinds of situations. The Scriotures were written to specific people at a specific time and for a specific purpose. If we just take them out of the context in which they're written and randomly apply them we're not really, rightly dividing the word. For instance, I see Christian's often take the words of Jesus to the apostles, where He told them the Holy Spirit would guide then into all truth, and apply it to themselves as Christian's. They'll say, well He said it to the apostles and they were Chrsitians and I'm a Christian so it applies to me. However, when I mention the passage where Paul told the Corinthian Christian's that they were carnal and ask if that applies to them because they're Chrisitians they change their tune. In the end, it's Cherry Picking. People pick the passages they want and ignore those they don't want. One will never come to an understanding of Gods word that way.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

so it's a no, you are not born again?

I know for a fact I'm born again spiritually just as I know I was born physically on a certain day. The physical parallels the spiritual birth. I know the exact time and place of my physical birth just as I know the place and time of my spiritual birth. I know exactly when I became a New Creation in Christ when I received the gospel of my salvation with joy, transformation and the renewing of my mind. Behold the old has passed and all things became new. Love for self turned into love for Christ and have not looked back since that day in 1980. I have hungered and thirsted for His word every day which satisfies my soul since day one and it has never stopped nor will it ever stop. My hatred for others turned immediately into a love for the lost. I hated to read and couldn't put Gods word down. His love consumed me then as it does now.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Dave L]

so it's a no, you are not born again?

Have you experienced Christ living in your heart? Describe it if you have.

 

[Butch5]

You seem to deny the spiritual.

We do come to Jesus. We as believers sit in heaven with Jesus. Ephesians 2:6

That’s because the new covenant is a marriage, and as the bride of Christ, we become as one with Jesus in marriage, and it’s a spiritual union. Romans 7:4

This is how we become the body of Christ - the two cleave together and become as one in marriage.

So we do come to Jesus while He is bodily in heaven at the Father’s right hand - spiritually- our spirit and His.

You mentioned a celestial body, that’s a Mormon term, isn’t it?

Again, you're espousing Dualism. The Bible doesnt teach that.

The word spirit is a figure of speech. The word actually means wind or breath. I don't deny thebwind or breath. However, when you say spiritual what do you mean?

In didn't bring up celestial, RickReads did. I just asked him what he meant by it.

 

[Butch5]

Your comments are pointing to the denial that Jesus is the second person in the Godhead, because as God, He IS an eternal spirit, and when He incarnated in a human body, His spirit didn’t go on vacation - it indwelled the mortal flesh body.

Well, we can't speak about the Trinity. I gave you Jesus' own words. He said, 'a spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have.' You can either work your beliefs around what He said, or you can deny what He said and keep your beliefs.

 

[StillGods]

I know for a fact I'm born again spiritually just as I know I was born physically on a certain day. The physical parallels the spiritual birth. I know the exact time and place of my physical birth just as I know the place and time of my spiritual birth. I know exactly when I became a New Creation in Christ when I received the gospel of my salvation with joy, transformation and the renewing of my mind. Behold the old has passed and all things became new. Love for self turned into love for Christ and have not looked back since that day in 1980. I have hungered and thirsted for His word every day which satisfies my soul since day one and it has never stopped nor will it ever stop. My hatred for others turned immediately into a love for the lost. I hated to read and couldn't put Gods word down. His love consumed me then as it does now.

hope this helps !!!

so for you it's a yes, but I wasnt asking you the question.

 

[StillGods]

Have you experienced Christ living in your heart? Describe it if you have.

are you born again? yes or no?

 

[Dave L]

are you born again? yes or no?

Yes, in 1970. Can you describe it? Any born again person can.

 

[StillGods]

Yes, in 1970. Can you describe it? Any born again person can.

why did you side step the question 3 times?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Again, you're espousing Dualism. The Bible doesnt teach that.

The word spirit is a figure of speech. The word actually means wind or breath. I don't deny thebwind or breath. However, when you say spiritual what do you mean?

In didn't bring up celestial, RickReads did. I just asked him what he meant by it.

Yes pneuma means that and many misuse the term or phase spiritual especially when it comes to the spiritual body in the Resurrection.

The term “spiritual” is used in the Scripture to denote “supernatural” behavior—not a “spiritual” essence of being. Thus, the phrase “spiritual body” in the passage above speaks of a “physical supernatural” body—not a “spirit body.” Another example of the term “spiritual” referring to “supernatural” behavior is 1 Corinthians 2:15 where we read, “But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man.” The “spiritual” person in both of these passages is behaving in a “supernatural” way, not ontologically transforming “human” essence into “spirit” essence as the JW's falsely claim that Jesus is now a spirit without a body.

A spiritual body denotes an immortal body. A spiritual body is one that is dominated by the spirit, not one that is devoid of matter. The Greek word pneumatikos means a body that is directed by the spirit as opposed to one under the dominion of the flesh. It is not ruled by the flesh that perishes but by the spirit that endures. (1 Corinthians 15:50-58). A spiritual body does no mean immaterial or invisible but immortal and imperishable. Paul makes these parallels:

Earthly- Heavenly (verse 40)
Perishable- Imperishable (verse 42)
Weak- Powerful (verse 43)
Natural-Supernatural (verse 44)
Mortal- Immortal (verse 53)

The context shows that spiritual (pneumatikos) could be translated supernatural in contrast to natural from the parallels of perishable and imperishable, corruptible and incorruptible. Pneumatikos is translated supernatural in 1 Cor 10:4 regarding the supernatural rock that followed them in the wilderness. In the translation spiritual refers to physical objects. In 1 Corinthians 10:45 Paul spoke of the spiritual rock that followed Israel in the wilderness from which they got spiritual drink 1 Corinthians 10:4.But the OT story (Exodus 17,Numbers 20)reveals it was a physical rock from which they got literal water to drink. The actual water they drank from the material rock was produced supernaturally. Further Paul spoke about a spiritual man 1 Cor inthians 2:15 he obviously did not mean an invisible, immaterial man with no corporeal body. He was as a matter of fact speaking of a flesh and blood human being whose life is lived by the supernatural power of God, a literal person whose life is Spirit directed. A spiritual man is one who is taught by the Spirit and who receives the things that come from the Spirit of God. (1 Corinthians 2:13-14). The resurrection body can be called a spiritual body in much the same way we speak of the bible being a spiritual book. Regardless of their spiritual source and power both the resurrection body and the bible are material objects. The same applies to the spiritual food they ate in the wilderness ( the manna). It was real food which was supernaturally provided by God from heaven(the manna from heaven as its called in scripture) just the same as the spiritual drink( the water) which came supernaturally from the rock.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Dave L]

why did you side step the question 3 times?

What is your question?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

so for you it's a yes, but I wasnt asking you the question.

no problem I was just sharing my faith and personal experience.

 

[StillGods]

What is your question?

why did you side step the question 3 times?

 

[Dave L]

why did you side step the question 3 times?

You are not answering my questions. If you experienced the new birth, you would have plenty to talk about in a "warmer" tone.

 

[Butch5]

Yes pneuma means that and many misuse the term or phase spiritual especially when it comes to the spiritual body in the Resurrection.

The term “spiritual” is used in the Scripture to denote “supernatural” behavior—not a “spiritual” essence of being. Thus, the phrase “spiritual body” in the passage above speaks of a “physical supernatural” body—not a “spirit body.” Another example of the term “spiritual” referring to “supernatural” behavior is 1 Corinthians 2:15 where we read, “But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man.” The “spiritual” person in both of these passages is behaving in a “supernatural” way, not ontologically transforming “human” essence into “spirit” essence as the JW's falsely claim that Jesus is now a spirit without a body.

A spiritual body denotes an immortal body. A spiritual body is one that is dominated by the spirit, not one that is devoid of matter. The Greek word pneumatikos means a body that is directed by the spirit as opposed to one under the dominion of the flesh. It is not ruled by the flesh that perishes but by the spirit that endures. (1 Corinthians 15:50-58). A spiritual body does no mean immaterial or invisible but immortal and imperishable. Paul makes these parallels:

Earthly- Heavenly (verse 40)
Perishable- Imperishable (verse 42)
Weak- Powerful (verse 43)
Natural-Supernatural (verse 44)
Mortal- Immortal (verse 53)

The context shows that spiritual (pneumatikos) could be translated supernatural in contrast to natural from the parallels of perishable and imperishable, corruptible and incorruptible. Pneumatikos is translated supernatural in 1 Cor 10:4 regarding the supernatural rock that followed them in the wilderness. In the translation spiritual refers to physical objects. In 1 Corinthians 10:45 Paul spoke of the spiritual rock that followed Israel in the wilderness from which they got spiritual drink 1 Corinthians 10:4.But the OT story (Exodus 17,Numbers 20)reveals it was a physical rock from which they got literal water to drink. The actual water they drank from the material rock was produced supernaturally. Further Paul spoke about a spiritual man 1 Cor inthians 2:15 he obviously did not mean an invisible, immaterial man with no corporeal body. He was as a matter of fact speaking of a flesh and blood human being whose life is lived by the supernatural power of God, a literal person whose life is Spirit directed. A spiritual man is one who is taught by the Spirit and who receives the things that come from the Spirit of God. (1 Corinthians 2:13-14). The resurrection body can be called a spiritual body in much the same way we speak of the bible being a spiritual book. Regardless of their spiritual source and power both the resurrection body and the bible are material objects. The same applies to the spiritual food they ate in the wilderness ( the manna). It was real food which was supernaturally provided by God from heaven(the manna from heaven as its called in scripture) just the same as the spiritual drink( the water) which came supernaturally from the rock.

hope this helps !!!

Thank you! I agree. The whole point is that spirit doesn't denote some immaterial man living apart from the body. In English, the word spirit is often tied to the idea of a ghost. That idea is not found in the Greek and Hebrew words. What you posted here is great.

 

[Petros2015]

can you say yes or no?

22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?

Surely these same people would have said 'Yes' to the question (are you born again)?
So, I'm not sure it matters so much what We say
As it does what He says

 

[StillGods]

You are not answering my questions. If you experienced the new birth, you would have plenty to talk about in a "warmer" tone.

why did you sidestep the question 3 times?

there are a few possible reasons.

 

[StillGods]

22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?

Surely these same people would have said 'Yes' to the question (are you born again)?
So, I'm not sure it matters so much what We say
As it does what He says

assurance of salvation is something many calvinists do not have, hence my question to Dave L