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Why do people blame calvinists ?

RickReads

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I'm sorry you feel that way that is not my intent and I like you Rick. And I'm sorry and apologize if I have come across to you that way.

I like you too. In a weird kinda way this has been fun. I`m not mad at ya.
 
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RickReads

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I wouldn`t dare to.
 
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chad kincham

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And you’re correct.

It’s Calvinists that teach that we are born spiritually dead and totally depraved, so that as dead men, we can’t respond or even believe the gospel, until first being made alive by regeneration.

Thus in their dogma, to save the elect, God must zap them with irresistible grace/regeneration, so that they will be able to have faith.

Therefore their doctrine has grace/regeneration/faith coming in that order, so that the elect are first saved, and then believe.

But the Bible is so clear that the sequence of the new birth is faith/grace/regeneration.

It’s as if salvation in the Bible was horse/cart, but Calvinism is backwards and has it as cart/horse.

The proverbial cart before the horse mistake.

Shalom.
 
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RickReads

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I`ve always felt like there was something really wrong with Calvinism but never could quite put my finger on it until now. This here is the root of the problem.
 
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chad kincham

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It is a debatable point. However, I think the standing Jesus in Stevens vision Indicates the transition from converting Israel to world evangelism without Israel. Mind you, I am not anti-Israel.



Actually when Jesus said, before Abraham was, I AM - that was Him claiming to be God, and the Jews sought to stone Him for blasphemy for saying it.
 
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chad kincham

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This tells me what the Bible means by celestial. It doesn't tell me how you understand the word. That you won't simply say what it means to you actually speaks volumes.

Paul was talking about celestial bodies in space, such as the sun, and terrestrial bodies such as ours.

He wasn’t saying any beings have, or will get, celestial bodies.
 
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chad kincham

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He can’t empty Himself of His spirit, HE IS A SPIRIT.
He emptied Himself of the divine power and glory He had before incarnating in a body.
 
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chad kincham

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Actually it’s grace through faith that saves us.

Shalom.
 
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chad kincham

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Arminius is nothing to me.

I don’t believe in free will because of him, but because it’s scriptural.
 
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RickReads

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Actually when Jesus said, before Abraham was, I AM - that was Him claiming to be God, and the Jews sought to stone Him for blasphemy for saying it.

Jesus wasn`t claiming to be the father. He was identifying Himself as the theophany that appeared to Moses aka the angel of the Lord.
 
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chad kincham

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That’s absolutely wrong.

If you’d stop proof-texting and put the verse in actual context, Paul’s talking about each believers body.

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.


That’s too clear to obfuscate.

Shalom.
 
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chad kincham

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That’s absolutely wrong.

If you’d stop proof texting and put the verse in actual context, Paul’s talking about each believers body.

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

That’s too clear to obfuscate.
 
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chad kincham

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You haven’t answered the questions.

Is Jesus God the logos?

What form do you claim Jesus was in BEFORE He incarnated in a body, when He created the world?

The correct answers are He is God the word.

And He was, and still is, a divine spirit.

He doesn’t have a spirit, HE IS A SPIRIT.
 
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chad kincham

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And yet the risen Jesus told the church in Revelation 3:20 that He stands knocking at the door of our hearts, wanting to come in and sup with us.

And Jesus equates himself with the Holy Spirit, when He said:

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

He’s sending the Holy Spirit as our comforter, yet says, I WILL COME TO YOU.

That’s why it’s called the mystery of the trinity.

Just like the mystery Paul said is CHRIST IN US, the hope of glory.

You can’t spin it. Jesus and the Holy Spirit indwells all believers.

If that was some kind of metaphor IT WOULDN'T BE A MYSTERY, would it?
 
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chad kincham

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Very easy to reconcile.

God is a divine and eternal spirit, and had no body, until God the Logos, Jesus incarnated into a body.

A human body is only a house, a home that we live in until the body dies, then we leave it. 2 Corinthians 5.

The bo

Of course He came in the flesh - that hardly negates the biblical fact that Jesus is God - that God IS a divine eternal spirit - that the mortal body is a house that WE live in, it is NOT us, it’s a tent we put on.

In that text Paul wasn’t proving Jesus is ONLY a physical body with no spirit inside - Paul was refuting the gnostic cult that said life is an illusion and that the physical body doesn’t really exist.

Answer the question, or we are done: in what form did Jesus exist in from all eternity and when He created the world?
 
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chad kincham

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Very easy to reconcile.

God is a divine and eternal spirit, and had no body, until God the Logos, Jesus incarnated into a body.

A human body is only a house, a home that we live in until the body dies, then we leave it. 2 Corinthians 5.

The bo
 
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John Mullally

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Let's cut to the chase. You save yourself according to Arminius. God saves you according to Calvin.
Cutting to the chase. Calvanists differ from non-Calvanists because they believe in "Total Depravity" - which is a doctrine that means that even the elect contribute nothing to their own salvation. If total depravity were true, why is the Bible filled with exhortations and directives? Why do the early church pillars of the faith, like Peter and Paul, spend considerable effort in reasoning with the "totally depraved"?

Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.​

Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian. 29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.

1 Corinthians 9:22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.​
 
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chad kincham

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Scripture says God IS a spirit, a divine, eternal spirit. John 4:24

The word spirit in John 4:24 is Pneuma.

If pneuma only means breath, then God is only a breath, which is ludicrous.

The word doesn’t mean only breath or wind

Jesus is God, and thus He is an eternal divine spirit.

Obviously you deny His divinity, since you can’t admit He is a divine spirit incarnated into a body.

This is going nowhere, so enjoy your private interpretation of scripture.

Shalom.
 
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chad kincham

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Correct.

Obviously if Calvinism was a fact, nothing Paul did could affect salvations, so becoming all things to all men would be useless.

Shalom.
 
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