Why do other Christians hate Pentecostals so much?

[Widlast]

Then there will certainly be unicorns, fluffy bunnies and cotton candy in Heaven.

Poor attempt at being clever.
Fluffy bunnies are quite common, the breed is called Angora.
Cotton candy is a breeze to make, it's mainly sugar.
There never have been unicorns, they are mythical.

 

[Hillsage]

What I mean is that man can only perform water baptism. The Holy Spirit baptism follows done by Jesus Christ. No other person can baptize another to receive the Holy Spirit if water baptism has already been done invoking the Trinity. Speaking unknown tongue afterwards is not a sign of Holy Spirit baptism executed by a person.

I'm not sure as to why you believe that. Personally I know many who received the baptism in the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues after being water baptized according to your 'trinity' litmus. But....again....I also believe scripture disagrees with your 'opinion'.

ACT 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
ACT 8:14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit;

I'm pretty well convinced that if Phillip didn't know how to 'baptize' correctly, no one today does either, that's for sure. And in this case he preached/saved/water baptized and then left. Then when Jerusalem heard about them all getting saved and 'correctly' baptized, what did they do? I believe it's what you just said can't be done. Now would be a good time to make your theology change to bible-ology...IMO.

Speaking unknown tongue by emotional persons and ambiguous interpretation for that was an invention of crafty Paul to solve the nuisance in notorious Corinth.

'Crafty Paul'????, or it is a judgment from the frozen chozen 'have nots'. As I shared in my last post, from the "spiritual songs" scripture in Ephesians; "the lyric/tongue/language comes from the spirit and the melody comes from the heart." I guess my only 'come back' is I'm sorry your hearts are apparently harder than ours...emotionally. As to your mis-judgment of "notorious Corinth" all I can keep saying is that's the opinion of one who is "unlearned/ungifted/who do not understand" according to the bible....concerning these spiritual things. You just need to throw "drunk" and "mad" into your judgments.

Sorry, I missed out the word 'not' in my reply leading to this response from you. I meant the the emotional unknown tongue is not related to the Holy Spirit. Again I am not interested in what communications go on between man and the Holy Spirit in private.

I'm actually not in disagreement with this point. The Spirit may provide the inspiration but we humans definitely can provide the emotional response to His inspiration. Have you ever noticed a bit of a sexual proclivity, as to who's more emotional in these occasions?

Bible speaks of only two tongues: unknown tongue and known tongue. I say again that the unknown tongue is not related to the Holy Spirit. What happened on Pentecost is related to known foreign tongue, but in Corinth it was unknown tongue

OK two tongues: unknown and known...I agree. But three sources: human soul (vernacular tongues) which speaker knows and you/I may 'know' or they may be 'unknown' to us. Then there's Holy Spirit tongues which the speaker may not know, but the person it's meant for will and the rest of us won't (like on Pentecost). And then there's the supernatural gift of tongue AND the supernatural gift of interpretation which is the equivalent of prophesy in a tongue known to a congregation (like in 1 Cor 14)
1CO 14:5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified.

 

[Righttruth]

I'm not sure as to why you believe that. Personally I know many who received the baptism in the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues after being water baptized according to your 'trinity' litmus. But....again....I also believe scripture disagrees with your 'opinion'.

ACT 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
ACT 8:14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit;
I'm pretty well convinced that if Phillip didn't know how to 'baptize' correctly, no one today does either, that's for sure. And in this case he preached/saved/water baptized and then left. Then when Jerusalem heard about them all getting saved and 'correctly' baptized, what did they do? I believe it's what you just said can't be done. Now would be a good time to make your theology change to bible-ology...IMO.

What happened to Acts 8:16?

16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

That is the reason whey the Trinity is invoked for water baptism.
Speaking in unknown tongue has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit.

'

Crafty Paul'????, or it is a judgment from the frozen chozen 'have nots'. As I shared in my last post, from the "spiritual songs" scripture in Ephesians; "the lyric/tongue/language comes from the spirit and the melody comes from the heart." I guess my only 'come back' is I'm sorry your hearts are apparently harder than ours...emotionally. As to your mis-judgment of "notorious Corinth" all I can keep saying is that's the opinion of one who is "unlearned/ungifted/who do not understand" according to the bible....concerning these spiritual things. You just need to throw "drunk" and "mad" into your judgments.

So you want to disown even Paul's own admission?
2 Corinthians 12
16 But be that as it may, I did not burden you myself; nevertheless, crafty fellow that I am, I took you in by deceit.

I'm actually not in disagreement with this point. The Spirit may provide the inspiration but we humans definitely can provide the emotional response to His inspiration. Have you ever noticed a bit of a sexual proclivity, as to who's more emotional in these occasions?

Emotions are part of human nature, but they need to be controlled. That is with self-control which is the fruit of the Spirit. Emotional David danced publicly and jumped on adultery privately!

OK two tongues: unknown and known...I agree. But three sources: human soul (vernacular tongues) which speaker knows and you/I may 'know' or they may be 'unknown' to us. Then there's Holy Spirit tongues which the speaker may not know, but the person it's meant for will and the rest of us won't (like on Pentecost). And then there's the supernatural gift of tongue AND the supernatural gift of interpretation which is the equivalent of prophesy in a tongue known to a congregation (like in 1 Cor 14)
1CO 14:5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified.

There cannot be more than two types of tongues. The word 'unknown' is an insertion (invention) of KJV! It is a mockery of what happened at Pentecost by childish and immature Corinthias trying to grab the attention of others to claim spirituality in the absence of Paul after his departure with a stay of about one and a half years. Paul's comprise formula is not applicable to mature Christians.

 

[Hillsage]

What happened to Acts 8:16?

16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Actually that's a point that you need to deal with because, as I said, you are the one with the trinity litmus. So why would anyone in the first century church baptize with only 1/3 of your trinity litmus? Do you have an answer for that? Why is it that EVERY time there was a baptism in water illustrated in scripture they NEVER said the trinity litmus ONCE? As I recall that was 4 times in the book of Acts. All 4 of which were after that big trinity litmus commission. Explain that if you would.

That is the reason whey the Trinity is invoked for water baptism.
Speaking in unknown tongue has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit.

Your opinion just doesn't line up with the experience of millions over the centuries. And if you've been baptized 'correctly' why don't you speak in this 'gibberish' you don't confess to having?

So you want to disown even Paul's own admission?
2 Corinthians 12
16 But be that as it may, I did not burden you myself; nevertheless, crafty fellow that I am, I took you in by deceit.

You have discovered why infallible bible translations are a bit of a problem. Read the verse 'in context' in a different translation and we have a whole opposite take.

2CO 12:15 I will most gladly spend and be spent for your souls. If I love you the more, am I to be loved the less?
16 But granting that I myself did not burden you, I was crafty, you say, and got the better of you by guile.
17 Did I take advantage of you through any of those whom I sent to you?

Emotions are part of human nature, but they need to be controlled.

Where is the scripture applying that to 'whatever' Charismatic antic you're thinking of? There is none. Maybe all of the sports worshiping Christians who act like idiots at a football game are also those who you really ought to be talking about. But they are judged 'FANS' by those like minded with you, whereas we are judged Fan-atics for acting no different for Jesus. That's simply religious hypocrisy IMO.

That is with self-control which is the fruit of the Spirit. Emotional David danced publicly and jumped on adultery privately!

So, have you danced publicly....nude, like David? Even his own wife jumped on his lack of control. And God dealt with her judgment of his emotional antics pretty harshly, as I recall.

There cannot be more than two types of tongues. The word 'unknown' is an insertion (invention) of KJV! It is a mockery of what happened at Pentecost by childish and immature Corinthias trying to grab the attention of others to claim spirituality in the absence of Paul after his departure with a stay of about one and a half years. Paul's comprise formula is not applicable to mature Christians.

I just told you the 3 different tongues scriptures deals with and defines. And your concern with the word 'unknown' doesn't change or affect my position. Yes the Corinthian church had some problems, but Paul, after his admonishing corrections still ended his whole rebuke chapter with;
1CO 14:39 So, my brethren, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues;

And why haven't you dealt with my repeated comment which deals with the Christians who are "ungifted/unlearned" and drop in on a Charismatic church. Why aren't they 'praying in tongues which no man understands with their spirit'? Or better yet, at this point, why aren't YOU?

 

[Righttruth]

Actually that's a point that you need to deal with because, as I said, you are the one with the trinity litmus. So why would anyone in the first century church baptize with only 1/3 of your trinity litmus? Do you have an answer for that? Why is it that EVERY time there was a baptism in water illustrated in scripture they NEVER said the trinity litmus ONCE? As I recall that was 4 times in the book of Acts. All 4 of which were after that big trinity litmus commission. Explain that if you would.

You know, salvation is from the Jews. That is because they have been told and experienced about the attributes of one and only God. They were also exposed the work of the Holy Spirit and His attribute. Jesus becomes the third aspect. So a baptized person should have some knowledge of all the Three. It is not baptizing a stranger without any knowledge of all the Three. The baptism to first 3000 was for all Jews. They need to be made of aware of the role of Jesus. So it is basically baptism invoking only Jesus' name by Peter. That was sufficient for them. So also baptism with people who were godly and aware of the first two Persons of the Trinity. What they needed is further belief in Jesus, so use of only Jesus' name was sufficient for such people. Not sufficient for the Gentile world subsequently. Jesus did not come to replace God the Father.

Your opinion just doesn't line up with the experience of millions over the centuries. And if you've been baptized 'correctly' why don't you speak in this 'gibberish' you don't confess to having?

Speaking gibberish is a phenomenon observed in Corinth church with its Gentile world and immature people trying to garner support for their inappropriate behavior. It was never observed anywhere else. Paul wanted that to be stopped gradually. It indeed stopped for centuries by taking the advice of Paul to seek prophesy--a superior gift. God will not bestow some inferior and some superior gifts! It got relapsed about one hundred years ago in a fermented society!

You have discovered why infallible bible translations are a bit of a problem. Read the verse 'in context' in a different translation and we have a whole opposite take.

2CO 12:15 I will most gladly spend and be spent for your souls. If I love you the more, am I to be loved the less?
16 But granting that I myself did not burden you, I was crafty, you say, and got the better of you by guile.
17 Did I take advantage of you through any of those whom I sent to you?

Much of 2 Corinthians is about Paul's boasting unbecoming of a Christian. All translations and misguided people are bent upon defending Paul, no matter what, at the cost of sublime preaching of Jesus.

Where is the scripture applying that to 'whatever' Charismatic antic you're thinking of? There is none. Maybe all of the sports worshiping Christians who act like idiots at a football game are also those who you really ought to be talking about. But they are judged 'FANS' by those like minded with you, whereas we are judged Fan-atics for acting no different for Jesus. That's simply religious hypocrisy IMO.

Please don't bring the name of Jesus for inappropriate behavior of misguided people based on opportunist Paul's observations and advice sitting at a far away place. Christianity has become an amusement religion fanned by business professionals and commercial enterprisers.

So, have you danced publicly....nude, like David? Even his own wife jumped on his lack of control. And God dealt with her judgment of his emotional antics pretty harshly, as I recall.

So you prefer David's dance and adultery over the observation of a lady.

I just told you the 3 different tongues scriptures deals with and defines. And your concern with the word 'unknown' doesn't change or affect my position. Yes the Corinthian church had some problems, but Paul, after his admonishing corrections still ended his whole rebuke chapter with;
1CO 14:39 So, my brethren, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues;

That was Paul's crafty strategy to face the problem. He did not want immediate stop. That refers to Corinthians. Not applicable universally.

And why haven't you dealt with my repeated comment which deals with the Christians who are

"ungifted/unlearned" and drop in on a Charismatic church. Why aren't they 'praying in tongues which no man understands with their spirit'? Or better yet, at this point, why aren't YOU?

Paul wrote as he was still growing spiritually to Corinthians. It was never meant to all of us that too mature Christians. I am not interested in relapse measures for the malady. Did Jesus spoke in gibberish?

 

[Hillsage]

You know, salvation is from the Jews. That is because they have been told and experienced about the attributes of one and only God. They were also exposed the work of the Holy Spirit and His attribute. Jesus becomes the third aspect. So a baptized person should have some knowledge of all the Three. It is not baptizing a stranger without any knowledge of all the Three. The baptism to first 3000 was for all Jews. They need to be made of aware of the role of Jesus. So it is basically baptism invoking only Jesus' name by Peter. That was sufficient for them. So also baptism with people who were godly and aware of the first two Persons of the Trinity. What they needed is further belief in Jesus, so use of only Jesus' name was sufficient for such people. Not sufficient for the Gentile world subsequently. Jesus did not come to replace God the Father.

Speaking gibberish is a phenomenon observed in Corinth church with its Gentile world and immature people trying to garner support for their inappropriate behavior. It was never observed anywhere else. Paul wanted that to be stopped gradually. It indeed stopped for centuries by taking the advice of Paul to seek prophesy--a superior gift. God will not bestow some inferior and some superior gifts! It got relapsed about one hundred years ago in a fermented society!

Much of 2 Corinthians is about Paul's boasting unbecoming of a Christian. All translations and misguided people are bent upon defending Paul, no matter what, at the cost of sublime preaching of Jesus.

Please don't bring the name of Jesus for inappropriate behavior of misguided people based on opportunist Paul's observations and advice sitting at a far away place. Christianity has become an amusement religion fanned by business professionals and commercial enterprisers.

So you prefer David's dance and adultery over the observation of a lady.

That was Paul's crafty strategy to face the problem. He did not want immediate stop. That refers to Corinthians. Not applicable universally.

Paul wrote as he was still growing spiritually to Corinthians. It was never meant to all of us that too mature Christians. I am not interested in relapse measures for the malady. Did Jesus spoke in gibberish?

Me thinks, that thou thinkest, too highly of your unscripturally backed opinions and too little of the man who wrote the most in the NT. I say that based upon this last post of yours which, if you think it's a refute worthy of this forum, let alone this thread....just simply falls short for me. Enjoy your 'have not' walk and I'll enjoy my 'have' one. We shall both know 'the truth' one day.

 

[Righttruth]

Me thinks, that thou thinkest, too highly of your unscripturally backed opinions and too little of the man who wrote the most in the NT. I say that based upon this last post of yours which, if you think it's a refute worthy of this forum, let alone this thread....just simply falls short for me. Enjoy your 'have not' walk and I'll enjoy my 'have' one. We shall both know 'the truth' one day.

It is not the volume of self-claims, but quality. Moses lived for 120 years, Jesus only thirtythree and a half! Gate is also wide for destruction. Narrow is the gate that leads to salvation.

 

[Hillsage]

It is not the volume of self-claims, but quality. Moses lived for 120 years, Jesus only thirtythree and a half! Gate is also wide for destruction. Narrow is the gate that leads to salvation.

Finally, something we both believe.