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His_disciple3 said:I know what you mean by this post but You have to hate evil, you have to hate false doctrines, Job hated evil, and paul and the disciples (excluding Judas) stood up against false teachings. your understanding of not thinking that God ever meant for all to see things the exact way, is straight from the gates of hell itself,
Ephesians 4:13-15
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
KJV
nowhere in the Bible will you find "to agree to disagree"
yeah I really meant thank you, I listen to alot of preachers and they all miss something sometime, I have a edition of Spurgeon's sermon, most are lengthy but I love them, 1 john tells us that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world if any one of those preachers you named preach limited atonement then they have missed it, this is not just some topic we can miss this is dealing with the Grace of God and Who can or will recieve that Grace. again I say let God be true and all men lairsDo you really mean thank you or are you just be sarcastic and didn't mean what you said?
Don't get me wrong, I am not one to be lite on sarcasm but unfortunately I will give an account of it.
So it appears you came out "WITH GUNS A BLAZING! blasting away."
ok what is "L" in tulip? limited atonement? which means that Jesus didn't die for the world only for the elect! I don't need an indepentent study, I don't need several books , sermons, articles to tell me what is right I have the Holy Word of God! 1 John 2, Jesus not only died for the sins of the elect, but also for the sins of the Whole World, I don't need to prove that the T is right or wrong or the U or the I or the P, If the L is wrong according to scriptures, then Thats all I need! now if you learned something that I haven't covered about limited atonement, then you could enlighten, but with all your study you could also confirm that "L" is limited atonement, and By turning to the scripture reference I give in 1 John you could see it can not be limited atonement, thus it can not be the doctrine of grace according to calvinist who preaches the T>U>L>I>P doctrine!!Have you actually studied the topic or do you just come "WITH GUNS A BLAZING! blasting away," every time you hear the word Calvinism?
Several years ago, I used to do the same thing as you. Why? Because I was ignorant. Ignorant is not a derogatory term but simply means "lacking knowledge." I really was. I listened to one man and his interpretation of Clavinism, who painted Calvinism as evil and wicked and anyone who was a Calvinist was/is not saved. He told me he studied this extensivly on the subject. I found out later that basically was about one book against it.
When things didn't click as to what he told me, I did my own independent study, using several books, sermons, articles and much prayer. I came to my own conclusion about the topic and realized he was wrong.
I suggest you do the same.
I believe in a Sovereign God, But I believe that He gave us a choice, I set before ye this day heaven or hell, life or death, choose ye life. I believe we are saved by Grace through faith, and not that of works. If a Sovereign God says that He wants those who will come to come and drink of the water of life freely, than who is any calvinist to tell God that He can't do it that way or to tell me That I can't choose to come and drink or choose to turn and go away thristy. God says Come calvinist say you can't come, whom do you say we should listen to? and Yes there is very much a difference in the Bibical grace and the calvinist understanding of that Grace, but could you elaborate since you called it calvinist grace are you saved by calvinist grace? and haven't you just raised calvinist up higher than our Sovereign God, if it is calvinist grace we must come to knowledge of to be saved?I can only speak for myself I don't hate calvinist, but do hate the calvinist doctrine of Grace, quote]
Could you elaborate on this? Do you hate biblical grace or the calvinist grace? Is there a difference and if so, could you explain them both. Thanks.
Yes. That's exactly what Calvinists believe.
Every single person who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
Not one more, and not one less. That's what Calvinists believe.
Amen!
I promised the other side of the fence. This sort of thing is not isolated to attack on Calvinists. Here are two recent ones on the Semper Reformada sub-forum, not to me personally.
"Is the god of the Arminain God? Not at all. The pygmy god of Arminianism is a figment of men's imaginations and is no more able to save than a knat can. Does God desire anything that He can't have? The Arminian god does. Is there anything God wants that He can't bring about? That is the god of Arminianism.
"Calling an Arminian brother isn’t being compassionate toward their error it is assenting to their heresy. If you believe that they are saved then why even try to show them Calvinism?"
The following ones were directed at me in several posts from a well-known Calvinist on the Soteriology sub-forum, but not on the Baptist sub-forum. It was on a thread I started called “verses supporting predestination & election, verses supporting man's responsibility.” It got the attention of the resident attack dog…
"another person who has come here to combat a perceived theological bent out of some kind of paranoia."
"Patronizing."
"paranoia,… antagonization."
"we will see if true colors come out for all to see."
"no grand Illuminati strategy".
"hyper-Calvinist theologians are not hiding under your bed or in your closet."
"put away the tin-foil hat for a moment".
"the monsters are not out to get you.
"No, rather, I think this is more paranoia talking."
"Tell the little birds whispering in your ear to fly away."
"How about some substance now so what you really believe can come out in the open."
"If your conduct and few posts with substance are any indication, it is becoming quite clear what your true colors."
“This kind of self-righteousness is nauseating to me.”
I need to point out that these are two of the more belligerent 5-pointers out there, and not typical of those I’ve known generally on here.
Bella,
One thing that's curious to me. Why do you identify yourself to others as Calvinist?
In 30+ years as a believer, until I came onto CF I've never had more than a couple of encounters with fellow brothers and sisters where I felt the need to identify myself as such or where they did so either. Doctrinal discussions in the myriads, but never the label thrown out there. It many times became obvious where one stood, but generally Christians don't in my experience feel the need to identify themselves with the label of either Calvinist or Arminian.
Just wondering...
you speak of us being dead to our sins and that we can't respond, but yet as I have pointed out in John 3:17 that Jesus died that some might be saved, could you explain how you see this, if calvinist are right and you are 4.5 right, then limited atonement states That Jesus did not die that some might be saved, but He died that some/the elect WILL Be saved!No I am saying I have done my own research into both sides and think both sides put up a good argument. But I clearly think One side is stronger than the other hence why I picked it. It has all Biblical balance because it is based on God's sovereign will and none of our own because we are totally dead to our sin.
you speak of us being dead to our sins and that we can't respond, but yet as I have pointed out in John 3:17 that Jesus died that some might be saved, could you explain how you see this, if calvinist are right and you are 4.5 right, then limited atonement states That Jesus did not die that some might be saved, but He died that some/the elect WILL Be saved!
I am naive about this because I have no issue with Calvinists or Calvinism. What do Calvinists teach?
oh wow! that really helped them !!The truth.
He does that a lot. Conveniently, too.No ... And you forgot to answer the question.
I know what you mean by this post but You have to hate evil, you have to hate false doctrines, Job hated evil, and paul and the disciples (excluding Judas) stood up against false teachings. your understanding of not thinking that God ever meant for all to see things the exact way, is straight from the gates of hell itself,
Nowadays they put people out of church because they are not Calvinists. This is what happened to us. Non-Calvinists were not even allowed to be in a worship team and had to leave. And one middle aged lady who for years played the piano was asked to step down, again because she was not a Calvinist.
but when you state you are a calvinist you are standing on one side, If I stop then I raise you above God, Because God said to love Him first then love you. so if I love God then I am to defend His Holy Word, and His ways, to you is it about excepting one another. to me it is all about God, you or me has nothing to do with it, it ain't about us getting along, it ain't about my feeling getting hurt or yours. it is about the truth being spread, Jesus didn't die that we might get along, He died that all might have life. It ain't about us agreeing to disagree, Jesus taught against false teaching as much or more than He did about getting along. the scribes were called vipers, Jesus when speaking to peter one time said satan get behind me, or something to that effect. Jesus kicked them out of the House of God. But God forbid if we call false teachers in here vipers, or if someone comes in here with a teaching against the word of God if we say satan get behind me, we will offend someone and get kick out. if your intentions were as you say then you should have never mentioned you were a calvinist. no I say you are smart enough to know where this thread was heading before you ever posted.I am not fighting Calvinist VS. Free will with you so STOP! That is all you have done since this thread started and this thread is about behavior in the forums not a theology debate!!! Did you not notice that I have been ignoring those parts of your responses? If you want to debate that start another thread this thread is about the way we treat our fellow Christians even when we disagree. Get on board please!!!
but when you state you are a calvinist you are standing on one side, If I stop then I raise you above God, Because God said to love Him first then love you. so if I love God then I am to defend His Holy Word, and His ways, to you is it about excepting one another. to me it is all about God, you or me has nothing to do with it, it ain't about us getting along, it ain't about my feeling getting hurt or yours. it is about the truth being spread, Jesus didn't die that we might get along, He died that all might have life. It ain't about us agreeing to disagree, Jesus taught against false teaching as much or more than He did about getting along. the scribes were called vipers, Jesus when speaking to peter one time said satan get behind me, or something to that effect. Jesus kicked them out of the House of God. But God forbid if we call false teachers in here vipers, or if someone comes in here with a teaching against the word of God if we say satan get behind me, we will offend someone and get kick out. if your intentions were as you say then you should have never mentioned you were a calvinist. no I say you are smart enough to know where this thread was heading before you ever posted.
Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)
Jude 3
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
KJV
so stand up as a calvinist, answer from scriptures how Jesus didn't die for the whole World. 1 Corinthians 15:20-22
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
KJV
verse 22 in adam all die, all means all here in the first part of this verse, I believe it means all in the second part of the verse what saith you, calvinist?
wait all you want, report me to whoever, your demands or threats don't scare me, deac! I was only addressing Calvinist so if you are a calvinist then God so loved the World in John 3:16 can't mean the whole World, And I have never meet a true calvinist that says it means the whole world! it is Limited atonement in the Tulip doctrine of Grace, and Jesus did not die for the whole world, only the world of the elect, according to the calvinist doctrine. A true calvinist will come up against anyone who says that Jesus death was in vain for the ones that He died for. So if anyone goes to hell Jesus did not die for them, or that in John 3:17 that He died that the World MIGHT BE SAVED.
the World in John 3:16 and 17 means the whole world but if you are a calvinist you can't admit that. and it is proven in scriptures, that it is not limited atonement by : 1 John 2:1-2
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
KJV
you have to say that the word don't mean what it says.
Clearly you are looking for a fight
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