Looking forward to it-- though disclaimer I might be as late as tomorrow morning (I want to give this my full attention, and that's not possible right now with sick child).
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Looking forward to it-- though disclaimer I might be as late as tomorrow morning (I want to give this my full attention, and that's not possible right now with sick child).Ok. I'll talk with you tonight when you come back. I want to finish our discussion.
The sources are listed behind the quotations.
I will not be continuing this conversation about demoninations with you.
So, you didn't even check to see if the citations are true, you are just looking for an excuse not to believe they may be.The ellipses make it clear that you copied and pasted them from elsewhere. Given how many "Good Christians" see no problem with doctoring citations, what you posted is not accepted anymore.
Given how many "Good Mormons" see no problem with doctoring citations, what you posted is not accepted anymore..
I said that you believe that unless someone believes that JS is a true prophet of Christ, that that person will not go to heaven.
You also believe that if one does not belong to the Mormon church, one will not go to heaven.
So, that was leaving a lot out when we were very specifically talking about salvation. I outlined in GREAT DETAIL what I believed one needed to go to heaven. You did not.
Going with the short version here (this is from the Mormon POV, you can take it or leave it)--
Basically, in the early years of the Church ~200'ish, Christ's apostles were killed, leadership distorted, His people turned away from Him, teachings distorted, and His authority was lost. This is far from the first time people in mass have a abandoned God, but has happened several times throughout history (Noah, Moses, etc). Throughout the years, the lost church split into many different groups, each with different interruptions of God's words. When the time was right, God choose to restore the pieces of truth and authority that had been lost through a young farm boy name Joseph Smith.
Here's some more basic info: https://www.lds.org/topics/apostasy?lang=eng
Clarifying a few points about the LDS view of the apostasy and restoration:
1) LDS do NOT believe that all truth was lost, but that some truths were lost and some falsehoods inserted.
2) LDS do NOT believe that people belonging to other churches (Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, etc) are not Christians and all not doing their best be followers of Christ. Rather, it is believed that these people are good Christians, following Christ the best they know how, and do MUCH Good in the world.
LOL--Thanks for the history lesson---just because we worship on another day does not mean we think the rest of Christendom is corrupted and lost!! Somethings are a mater of salvation, others not. Yes, history is history--Constantine did declare a law for Sunday observance--that is not to say you're all going to hell!!! Like I said, there are several denominations out there who also believe in the Sabbath--not just us-- Mormons and JW's do not. No---we have nothing to do with the Freemasons and do not believe in secret societies, gestures or handshakes--the only thing we are to do in secret is pray and do good for others.ellen white and sda teach that under Emperor Constintine christianity became corrupted and this resulted in the Catholic Church (you can add Orthodox Church in here as well).
Sda also teach that other Protestants do not have the entire truth and that ellen white was send by God as his final day prophetess to reveal this forgotten truth to mankind and more importantly Christendom. In essence it's the same as Mormons, JW's. Interestingly all these cults were formed in the same time period in the US and each can be traced back to the freemasons.
God bless
Well this part is definately different from Christianity.Being saved from spiritual death: spiritual death is the separation of us from God. Our being saved from this death also happens because of Christ, but this redemption from sin does not happen automatically. Every individual must decide for themselves whether or not they accept Christ's Gospel, and be His disciple. The degree to which an individual accepts God is the extent in which God can be with them in the eternities. Useful link: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/death-spiritual?lang=eng.
End of Part 1.
Does that all make sense thus far TBL? Any questions/concerns?
We agree that spiritual death is separation between us and God. However, when we receive salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ we are justified by Him (made clean of all sin- past and future). That is why if you watched that short 2 minute movie I put up yesterday when it was time for the one guy to be judged, Jesus stands in His place. That is exactly how it is.
Jesus is Our Advocate
1 John 2:1
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
So your sentence
The degree to which an individual accepts God is the extent in which God can be with them in the eternities. is not the same. Now what Christ does give is Crowns and extra heavenly blessings. But everyone of His Children is the heir to His Kingdom.
The way it is in Christianity is on Judgement Day you either stand on your own merit OR Christ stands in for you. So salvation is sure.
But day to day to keep in faith, we have the indwelling Holy Spirit who is ALWAYS with us. He prays for us when we do not know what to pray for. He teaches us truth and the spiritual things of God. Convicts us of our sin. The Holy Spirit with our spirit confesses that we are Christ's Own. He is the downpayment of our inheritance in Christ Jesus until the Day of Redemption.
So we have God in us, helping us and convict us of our sin unto repentance.
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control." Galatians 5:22-23.
Not us trying to be like God.
But God's Word does say that we will be held accountable for each word we speak and each thing we do. But that does not mean loosing eternity. I think that is where the crowns and blessings come in.
Going with the short version here (this is from the Mormon POV, you can take it or leave it)--
Basically, in the early years of the Church ~200'ish, Christ's apostles were killed, leadership distorted, His people turned away from Him, teachings distorted, and His authority was lost. This is far from the first time people in mass have a abandoned God, but has happened several times throughout history (Noah, Moses, etc). Throughout the years, the lost church split into many different groups, each with different interruptions of God's words. When the time was right, God choose to restore the pieces of truth and authority that had been lost through a young farm boy name Joseph Smith.
Here's some more basic info: https://www.lds.org/topics/apostasy?lang=eng
Clarifying a few points about the LDS view of the apostasy and restoration:
1) LDS do NOT believe that all truth was lost, but that some truths were lost and some falsehoods inserted.
2) LDS do NOT believe that people belonging to other churches (Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, etc) are not Christians and all not doing their best be followers of Christ. Rather, it is believed that these people are good Christians, following Christ the best they know how, and do MUCH Good in the world.
so if Mormon still believe other Christians are Christians
then why do I hear Mormon preaches only Mormons would get to go to Mormon heaven?
and that is why Mormon parents disown their children who becomes Evangelicals?
So what is the restititution that goes beyond 'I'm sorry' that you have to do?(Part 2 of my response, discussing Mormon salvation beliefs. I’ll respond to your post #131 in my next post).
The second part is repentance. Repentance starts with acknowledging that something is sinful (sinful being defined as something which separates us from God). Repentance is about turning away from sin and towards God. Once we acknowledge that our actions have been sinful, it is not a simple “I’m sorry” which makes it all better- because God is infinitely just and cannot look on sin with the least amount of allowance. When there is wrong doing, there must also be restitution, which is where Christ’s sacrifice comes in.
Given how many "Good Mormons" see no problem with doctoring citations, what you posted is not accepted anymore..
I'm waiting for Jane to come back. At least she doesn't run from things.
then why do I hear Mormon preaches only Mormons would get to go to Mormon heaven?
and that is why Mormon parents disown their children who becomes Evangelicals?
So what is the restititution that goes beyond 'I'm sorry' that you have to do?
However, when we receive salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ we are justified by Him (made clean of all sin- past and future). That is why if you watched that short 2 minute movie I put up yesterday when it was time for the one guy to be judged, Jesus stands in His place. That is exactly how it is.
Jesus is Our Advocate
1 John 2:1
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
So your sentence
The degree to which an individual accepts God is the extent in which God can be with them in the eternities. is not the same. Now what Christ does give is Crowns and extra heavenly blessings. But everyone of His Children is the heir to His Kingdom.
The way it is in Christianity is on Judgement Day you either stand on your own merit OR Christ stands in for you. So salvation is sure.
But day to day to keep in faith, we have the indwelling Holy Spirit who is ALWAYS with us. He prays for us when we do not know what to pray for. He teaches us truth and the spiritual things of God. Convicts us of our sin. The Holy Spirit with our spirit confesses that we are Christ's Own. He is the downpayment of our inheritance in Christ Jesus until the Day of Redemption.
So we have God in us, helping us and convict us of our sin unto repentance.
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control." Galatians 5:22-23.
Not us trying to be like God.
But God's Word does say that we will be held accountable for each word we speak and each thing we do. But that does not mean loosing eternity. I think that is where the crowns and blessings come in.
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