Why Do Messianic Jews Only Baptize Believers?

[jinc1019]

Hi Everyone,
I am not a Messianic Jew and do not come from a Jewish background at all. However, I have read a lot about Messianic Judaism and watched several documentaries because I think there is a lot that can be learned from you all!

One question I have for you is: Why do seemingly all, or nearly all, Messianic Jews only baptize believers? I know that those of you who do believe, like all Christian groups who support believer's baptism, that baptism is a sign of an inner change and not at an actual means of grace or cause of faith.

What I find amazing though is...SO many groups that do baptize babies do so based on the idea that Jews provide circumcision to infants and baptism is supposedly a replacement of circumcision. Additionally, many infant baptizers argue that Jews traditionally immersed gentile converts to Judaism in the Mikvah and that this shows that the early Christians would have followed in the same tradition.

What do you all think of these arguments and, in general, why do Messianic Jews believe baptism is for believer's only and is only a sign? Don't Jews believe that the Mikvah actually purifies a person? Why then wouldn't the same be true of Christian baptism?

I know there are a lot of questions here, but I am very curious to hear your responses! I have been studying this issue for a long time and have yet to come to a firm conclusion about infant/believer's baptism.

Thanks in advance!

Justin

 

[Steve Petersen]

I don't know of any MJ congregation that does infant baptism as a substitute for circumcision.

Ancient Judaism had an immersion for someone who had converted to Judaism. When they came up out of the water the convert was deemed a 'new creature.'

I started a thread on this topic a while back with a post from Torah.org

http://www.christianforums.com/t7699482-6/#post61726568

 

[jinc1019]

I don't know of any MJ congregation that does infant baptism as a substitute for circumcision.

Ancient Judaism had an immersion for someone who had converted to Judaism. When they came up out of the water the convert was deemed a 'new creature.'

I started a thread on this topic a while back with a post from Torah.org

http://www.christianforums.com/t7699482-6/#post61726568

Thanks for providing the link and information! In your post, as well in the post you linked to, it seems as though Jews traditionally believed that dipping in the Mikvah did/does have a very real spiritual effect on the person receiving it. Doesn't it make sense then that baptism would be a good idea for infants?

 

[Steve Petersen]

Thanks for providing the link and information! In your post, as well in the post you linked to, it seems as though Jews traditionally believed that dipping in the Mikvah did/does have a very real spiritual effect on the person receiving it. Doesn't it make sense then that baptism would be a good idea for infants?

I don't see how. These things are not efficacious without intention. This is a major part of performing any commandment. Intention. An infant doesn't have that.

 

[ContraMundum]

I agree with infant baptism. Makes perfect sense covenentally. Still, I accept most Messianics are taught their theology from a Baptist/Pentecostal perspective and as such have never been taught the way of ancient orthodox consensus, and that's ok for them too.

 

[jinc1019]

I don't see how. These things are not efficacious without intention. This is a major part of performing any commandment. Intention. An infant doesn't have that.

That's really fascinating. Do you have any sources for that by chance? That would be a huge find if it's accurate.

 

[jinc1019]

I agree with infant baptism. Makes perfect sense covenentally. Still, I accept most Messianics are taught their theology from a Baptist/Pentecostal perspective and as such have never been taught the way of ancient orthodox consensus, and that's ok for them too.

Thanks for providing your thoughts! What do you mean by "ancient orthodox consensus?"

 

[Avodat]

Romans 10:9 is the passage I have been quoted, most, as the reason for not baptising babies; babies can neither confess nor believe, it is claimed.


(The SoP additional rule prohibits me from teaching on this issue, so the most I can do is just offer the above comment)

 

[Norbert L]

Regarding infant baptism in general, along the same line there is an example of Yeshua laying hands on little children and blessing them. Why a tradition of infant baptism is instituted over the example given, also makes for a good question.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Every Friday night Jewish fathers bless their children by laying their hands on their heads.

 

[Steve Petersen]

That's really fascinating. Do you have any sources for that by chance? That would be a huge find if it's accurate.

http://ohr.edu/explore_judaism/ask_the_rabbi/ask_the_rabbi/3514

 

[annier]

I don't see how. These things are not efficacious without intention. This is a major part of performing any commandment. Intention. An infant doesn't have that.

Is circumcision efficacious?
Is laying on of hands efficacious?
These are things that an individual does towards another. Does the one receiving these things have an effect?

 

[Steve Petersen]

Is circumcision efficacious?
Is laying on of hands efficacious?
These are things that an individual does towards another. Does the one receiving these things have an effect?

The commandment of circumcising your son is on the father, not the child.

Laying on of hands and blessing children is a custom, not a mitzvah as far as I can tell.

Does circumcision make one a covenant member if at adulthood one abandons the convenant?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I agree with infant baptism. Makes perfect sense covenentally. Still, I accept most Messianics are taught their theology from a Baptist/Pentecostal perspective and as such have never been taught the way of ancient orthodox consensus, and that's ok for them too.

Very true

 

[annier]

The commandment of circumcising your son is on the father, not the child.

Laying on of hands and blessing children is a custom, not a mitzvah as far as I can tell.

Does circumcision make one a covenant member if at adulthood on abandons the convenant?

That is what I am asking. Does circumcision have an effect on the infant?

 

[etZion]

Hi Everyone,
I am not a Messianic Jew and do not come from a Jewish background at all. However, I have read a lot about Messianic Judaism and watched several documentaries because I think there is a lot that can be learned from you all!

One question I have for you is: Why do seemingly all, or nearly all, Messianic Jews only baptize believers? I know that those of you who do believe, like all Christian groups who support believer's baptism, that baptism is a sign of an inner change and not at an actual means of grace or cause of faith.

What I find amazing though is...SO many groups that do baptize babies do so based on the idea that Jews provide circumcision to infants and baptism is supposedly a replacement of circumcision. Additionally, many infant baptizers argue that Jews traditionally immersed gentile converts to Judaism in the Mikvah and that this shows that the early Christians would have followed in the same tradition.

What do you all think of these arguments and, in general, why do Messianic Jews believe baptism is for believer's only and is only a sign? Don't Jews believe that the Mikvah actually purifies a person? Why then wouldn't the same be true of Christian baptism?

I know there are a lot of questions here, but I am very curious to hear your responses! I have been studying this issue for a long time and have yet to come to a firm conclusion about infant/believer's baptism.

Thanks in advance!

Justin

The point to be made here, is the difference, infant circumcision is a commandment, while infant immersion is not. That is not the say that it is wrong to immerse an infant, but that it is nothing more than a traditional preference, and holds no biblical significance and it definitely does not replace circumcision...

 

[Steve Petersen]

That is what I am asking. Does circumcision have an effect on the infant?

Yes, but by the father's intention and only until adulthood. Then the son must decide to take on the Torah for himself.

By 'efficacious' I think what I mean is 'having merit; getting credit for doing the commandment.'

 

[annier]

The point to be made here, is the difference, infant circumcision is a commandment, while infant immersion is not. That is not the say that it is wrong to immerse an infant, but that it is nothing more than a traditional preference, and holds no biblical significance and it definitely does not replace circumcision...

I think infant baptism comes from the household being baptized.

Ac 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

And this

22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

Just as anyone wishing to partake of the passover had to also circumcise their household....

 

[etZion]

I think infant baptism comes from the household being baptized.

Ac 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

And this

22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

Just as anyone wishing to partake of the passover had to also circumcise their household....

Despite where people may draw their own interpretation, there exist no commandment of infant immersion. I don't see anything wrong with infant immersion, but we cannot claim that it is commanded, unlike infant circumcision.

Also concerning the scriptures you posted, nothing there gives the impression of infant immersion and neither is anything commanded in those verses.

 

[jinc1019]

Regarding infant baptism in general, along the same line there is an example of Yeshua laying hands on little children and blessing them. Why a tradition of infant baptism is instituted over the example given, also makes for a good question.

Great question. I would assume those who practice baptism for infants would argue that it's necessary because it's the only way to bring a child into the covenant community OR because infants need sin cleansed as well and need baptism for that reason (original sin).