why do jews reject jesus?

[fizzygiraffe]

why do jews reject jesus?

Think about what it meant for Jesus to have arrived and fulfilled the prophecy of the coming Messiah.
It's like what would happen were there a cure found for all cancer. Cancer research would cease to be necessary.

In the case of the messiah arriving as promised those in charge of taking his role as intermediaries, as governors overseeing the right living of the faithful and keeping them in line, would cease to be necessary. Their role would change entirely. They'd not be as important.

Think of what happened when Jesus was murdered on the cross. Two sides wanted him dead. And years later the empire that murdered him built a church and ruled over dispensing his word.

If Jesus came today and did exactly what he did the first time they'd reject him again. Both sides. Temple and church.

Why? Look at all the charlatans out there that predated his arrival the second time around. Fakes, frauds, con-men, psychopaths that claim to be Jesus and then kill their flock.
Jesus said if someone comes after he's departed the world and says, look there is Jesus, come, Jesus is there!
Do not believe them.

If Jesus came again as a man performing miracles and speaking God's truth he'd be rejected today too. By far more than were so inclined the first time.

 

[Swan7]

actually the new covenant is an entirely separate covenant apart from the law and old ways...it's new..for all men not just the Jews . Making one new nation of all men



The new testament reveals a Vail is over thier eyes that Vail is the law ...that the law teachings hinders them from receiving the truth ..the Vail must be cast off to enter into covenant




They believe Jesus is the promise messiah but still hold to Judaism and the keeping of the law ...

Like I said. I'm still learning.
I also agree with what you're saying here, and yes! We will become one nation!

 

[LoAmmi]

Were the Jews blinded then? I believe so, yes, since they could not accept Jesus. However, there are Messianic Jews that believe in Jesus.

Let me demonstrate why I hate the "blinded" idea so much.

"Those Jews that followed Jesus were blinded by a charismatic leader who exploited their lack of a scholarly level of Torah education in order to make it seem like they were still following the faith of their ancestors. Not only was their lack of education exploited, it was turned into a virtue by telling them that the most educated among the Jews didn't know the truth but these relatively uneducated followers did know the truth."

See how easy it is to dismiss opponents by attacking them instead of attacking their points?

 

[LoAmmi]

Think about what it meant for Jesus to have arrived and fulfilled the prophecy of the coming Messiah.
It's like what would happen were there a cure found for all cancer. Cancer research would cease to be necessary.

In the case of the messiah arriving as promised those in charge of taking his role as intermediaries, as governors overseeing the right living of the faithful and keeping them in line, would cease to be necessary. Their role would change entirely. They'd not be as important.

Nowhere in the Tanakh does it say the Sanhedrin would be dissolved when the Messiah came; in fact, it clearly states that the judges would be restored. Why would these men fear they would become unnecessary if they knew the Tanakh stated they would be restored?

 

[dfw69]

Like I said. I'm still learning.
I also agree with what you're saying here, and yes! We will become one nation!

Amen. .

I'm still learning too...

 

[dfw69]

Think about what it meant for Jesus to have arrived and fulfilled the prophecy of the coming Messiah.
It's like what would happen were there a cure found for all cancer. Cancer research would cease to be necessary.

In the case of the messiah arriving as promised those in charge of taking his role as intermediaries, as governors overseeing the right living of the faithful and keeping them in line, would cease to be necessary. Their role would change entirely. They'd not be as important.

Think of what happened when Jesus was murdered on the cross. Two sides wanted him dead. And years later the empire that murdered him built a church and ruled over dispensing his word.

If Jesus came today and did exactly what he did the first time they'd reject him again. Both sides. Temple and church.

Why? Look at all the charlatans out there that predated his arrival the second time around. Fakes, frauds, con-men, psychopaths that claim to be Jesus and then kill their flock.
Jesus said if someone comes after he's departed the world and says, look there is Jesus, come, Jesus is there!
Do not believe them.

If Jesus came again as a man performing miracles and speaking God's truth he'd be rejected today too. By far more than were so inclined the first time.

When Jesus returns it will not be like the first time. .as a man... He will return as a glorious son of god as an angel ...and with the resurrected saints and angels ...it will be pretty convincing .

 

[Swan7]

Let me demonstrate why I hate the "blinded" idea so much.

"Those Jews that followed Jesus were blinded by a charismatic leader who exploited their lack of a scholarly level of Torah education in order to make it seem like they were still following the faith of their ancestors. Not only was their lack of education exploited, it was turned into a virtue by telling them that the most educated among the Jews didn't know the truth but these relatively uneducated followers did know the truth."

See how easy it is to dismiss opponents by attacking them instead of attacking their points?

Ahh, yes. I see your point and I apologize. So, if I am understanding this correctly, maybe it wasn't because they were under educated. Maybe they didn't realize they were following His second coming?

 

[LoAmmi]

Ahh, yes. I see your point and I apologize. So, if I am understanding this correctly, maybe it wasn't because they were under educated. Maybe they didn't realize they were following His second coming?

My point is merely about dismissing those who disagree. When I debate a Christian, I prefer to take them up on the points they bring not make some claim that they just cannot see the truth.

All too often my points have been dismissed by Christians when they cannot counter them by calling me blind. Not even recognizing we reached an impasse and just aren't going to agree or convince each other. No, I'm just blind and that's it. It's a cop-out.

 

[Swan7]

My point is merely about dismissing those who disagree. When I debate a Christian, I prefer to take them up on the points they bring not make some claim that they just cannot see the truth.

All too often my points have been dismissed by Christians when they cannot counter them by calling me blind. Not even recognizing we reached an impasse and just aren't going to agree or convince each other. No, I'm just blind and that's it. It's a cop-out.

Whoa.... hang on here. I am not debating, perhaps I came into the wrong place. I am merely seeking Truth, and to be quite honest, I don't know what it even means to be "Christian" because there are many who claim to be so. I am seeking God - plain and simple. Please don't take my learning personally. I am truly sorry for your hardships.

What made me begin my search in this area was the documentary Four Blood Moons. Since then I have been compelled to read the Bible from beginning to end... again, with new eyes.

 

[dfw69]

My point is merely about dismissing those who disagree. When I debate a Christian, I prefer to take them up on the points they bring not make some claim that they just cannot see the truth.

All too often my points have been dismissed by Christians when they cannot counter them by calling me blind. Not even recognizing we reached an impasse and just aren't going to agree or convince each other. No, I'm just blind and that's it. It's a cop-out.

Loammi your defense of your belief are solid ...but if the old covenant and New covenant as well was tweeked in such a way that they are not in lined....that would make a person blind in a sense would it not?

 

[fizzygiraffe]

Nowhere in the Tanakh does it say the Sanhedrin would be dissolved when the Messiah came; in fact, it clearly states that the judges would be restored. Why would these men fear they would become unnecessary if they knew the Tanakh stated they would be restored?

If you had read what I said you would have read that I did not say what you say and then oppose.
Those are entirely your words not mine.

 

[LoAmmi]

Loammi your defense of your belief are solid ...but if the old covenant and New covenant as well was tweeked in such a way that they are not in lined....that would make a person blind in a sense would it not?

No, not blind. Perhaps I could say mistaken, but even then I don't think it's some kind of universal missing the boat as much as opinions about texts that differ. The way that Christians and Jews approach the text are almost fundamentally different. Let me give you an example.

Matthew uses Hosea 11:1 as a prophecy of Jesus. Well, to be fair, he uses part of it, but let's move on.

Hosea 11:

11 When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called my son.

Now, Matthew specifically cuts off the first part of the sentence and just focuses on Out of Egypt I called my son. Alright, so Christians look at that and go, "Yes! Jesus! Out of Egypt!" I look at it and go "What about the first part there? And everything that follows specifically this son practicing idolatry?"


2 The more I called them,
the more they went from me;
they kept sacrificing to the Baals,
and offering incense to idols.



But Christians will say that this doesn't apply to the son mentioned above somehow. I can't even comprehend how you don't, but you don't. So, we're left with a situation where it makes total sense to you and it seems like cheery-picking to me.

 

[dfw69]

Whoa.... hang on here. I am not debating, perhaps I came into the wrong place. I am merely seeking Truth, and to be quite honest, I don't know what it even means to be "Christian" because there are many who claim to be so. I am seeking God - plain and simple. Please don't take my learning personally. I am truly sorry for your hardships.

What made me begin my search in this area was the documentary Four Blood Moons. Since then I have been compelled to read the Bible from beginning to end... again, with new eyes.

If I may...

To be a Christian is to believe Jesus is your perpetual sacrifice for sins against the Torah...and freedom from the Torah judgments for sins committed...and living a new life with new laws namely love god and all mankind and forgiving sins against you ...by faith are you saved...

As for the blood moons it's bogus...and may be leading us to the wrong messiah...peace

 

[LoAmmi]

If you had read what I said you would have read that I did not say what you say and then oppose.
Those are entirely your words not mine.

You stated that those in charged wanted Jesus dead because he challenged their authority because when messiah came they would be useless. I pointed out that the Tanakh doesn't say that.

I just re-read your post for the third time and don't see where I was mistaken. If you worded it in a way you didn't wish, please reword it so I can respond accordingly.

 

[LoAmmi]

Whoa.... hang on here. I am not debating, perhaps I came into the wrong place. I am merely seeking Truth, and to be quite honest, I don't know what it even means to be "Christian" because there are many who claim to be so. I am seeking God - plain and simple. Please don't take my learning personally. I am truly sorry for your hardships.

What made me begin my search in this area was the documentary Four Blood Moons. Since then I have been compelled to read the Bible from beginning to end... again, with new eyes.

Please don't take my tone as confrontational. I tend to be somewhat blunt in language. My point merely was that in discussions, I don't like it when anybody is dismissed by terms like "blinded" or whatever. It is basically calling them stupid in my eyes. When I've been engaged in debates in the past, people have called me blind when it was clear they wouldn't win.

 

[dfw69]

No, not blind. Perhaps I could say mistaken, but even then I don't think it's some kind of universal missing the boat as much as opinions about texts that differ. The way that Christians and Jews approach the text are almost fundamentally different. Let me give you an example.

Matthew uses Hosea 11:1 as a prophecy of Jesus. Well, to be fair, he uses part of it, but let's move on.

Hosea 11:

11 When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called my son.

Now, Matthew specifically cuts off the first part of the sentence and just focuses on Out of Egypt I called my son. Alright, so Christians look at that and go, "Yes! Jesus! Out of Egypt!" I look at it and go "What about the first part there? And everything that follows specifically this son practicing idolatry?"


2 The more I called them,
the more they went from me;
they kept sacrificing to the Baals,
and offering incense to idols.



But Christians will say that this doesn't apply to the son mentioned above somehow. I can't even comprehend how you don't, but you don't. So, we're left with a situation where it makes total sense to you and it seems like cheery-picking to me.

That's what I mean...there are a lot of little things such as this that just makes it silly...so silly that it is proof that the scriptures were tweeked...lol

 

[LoAmmi]

That's what I mean...there are a lot of little things such as this that just makes it silly...so silly that it is proof that the scriptures were tweeked...lol

I don't think they were tweeked. Who did it and what was their motive? Christians and Jews have texts that are nearly identical to each other, so it would have had to be a collaboration between the two to tweek them, which makes no sense. We're talking about interpretive and theological differences that separate us.

 

[fizzygiraffe]

You stated that those in charged wanted Jesus dead because he challenged their authority because when messiah came they would be useless. I pointed out that the Tanakh doesn't say that.

I just re-read your post for the third time and don't see where I was mistaken. If you worded it in a way you didn't wish, please reword it so I can respond accordingly.

Do you accept Jesus?


In the case of the messiah arriving as promised those in charge of taking his role as intermediaries, as governors overseeing the right living of the faithful and keeping them in line, would cease to be necessary. Their role would change entirely. They'd not be as important.

 

[LoAmmi]

Do you accept Jesus?


In the case of the messiah arriving as promised those in charge of taking his role as intermediaries, as governors overseeing the right living of the faithful and keeping them in line, would cease to be necessary. Their role would change entirely. They'd not be as important.

No, I'm Jewish. Jesus failed to meet the requirements laid out by the Prophets of the Lord to identify the Messiah and until he, or someone else, does that, I will not believe them to be such.

How would their role change entirely if they, the judges, would be restored in the Messianic time?
Isaiah 1: 26

And I will restore your judges as at first and your counsellors as in the beginning; afterwards you shall be called City of Righteousness, Faithful City.

 

[dfw69]

Please don't take my tone as confrontational. I tend to be somewhat blunt in language. My point merely was that in discussions, I don't like it when anybody is dismissed by terms like "blinded" or whatever. It is basically calling them stupid in my eyes. When I've been engaged in debates in the past, people have called me blind when it was clear they wouldn't win.

I apologies sorry that some Christians

I don't think they were tweeked.

which leads to blindness...lol..just playing.....

Who did it and what was their motive?

I don't know so I can't say...but it's obvious tweeks have occurred bro

Motive is obvious too...to hinders Jews from recieving the truth of the new covenant which would is dangerous to the Judaism way of life ...

Christians and Jews have texts that are nearly identical to each other, so it would have had to be a collaboration between the two to tweek them, which makes no sense. We're talking about interpretive and theological differences that separate us.

Apparently nearly is not enough...

We should be one on all points...