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why do jews reject jesus?

do jews reject jesus?

  • yes jews do reject jesus.

  • jews don't reject jesus.

  • don't know that jews reject jesus.


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LoAmmi

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That link does not mention anything about the last two posts and questions i asked you.

I have already admitted to you that some prophesies are wrong from the research i did on questions you answered me, which i took time to look up for you.

My final conclusion is what the bible says which is beware of false prophesies ( or people making claim that certain scriptures means a prophesy, which after very careful studying i can see that false prophesies exist in both Judaism and Christianity.

are any of these prophesies important to how one should act as Good ambassador is more important i think, how about you ?

Not from the bible it self, as i feel many of these scripts which people make claim are prophesies in my opinion are wrong and not prophesies , God forgive me if i am not.

The thread is on why Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah. If you wish to discuss proper behavior and the like, that's fine. I don't think one has to agree with messianic prophecies to be a good person. But when we're talking about the Messiah, I'm going to fall on the prophecies because that's what makes or breaks Jewish opinion of Jesus's claim to being Messiah.
 
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0ptimus

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The thread is on why Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah. If you wish to discuss proper behavior and the like, that's fine. I don't think one has to agree with messianic prophecies to be a good person. But when we're talking about the Messiah, I'm going to fall on the prophecies because that's what makes or breaks Jewish opinion of Jesus's claim to being Messiah.
ha thats funny you have been discussing my behavior since i met you ? im still waiting answer from them two posts.

you where the one who showed me them Judaism prophesies and you wont answer the questions i ask you about them, how is anyone supposed to learn about your faith. I think you will find that is why Jesus called the Jews hippocrits
 
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LoAmmi

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ha thats funny you have been discussing my behavior since i met you ? im still waiting answer from them two posts.

you where the one who showed me them Judaism prophesies and you wont answer the questions i ask you about them, how is anyone supposed to learn about your faith. I think you will find that is why Jesus called the Jews hippocrits

What two questions have I missed? I thought I had answered them.
 
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0ptimus

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What two questions have I missed? I thought I had answered them.
ok whatever no problem my mistake yeah you did answer them but the answers you gave where not related to the questions i asked you.

All you did was post some daft link that had no resemlance, but nevermind, thanks for showing your very good qualities on how to be a wind up merchant shalom :liturgy:
 
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0ptimus

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you need to stop getting your turban in a twist, when you can answer me post 357 and 358 your self and not some link from someone else that does not answer them , I will be happy to commence proceedings with you. shalom:liturgy: i think its only fair as i have answered all your questions :preach:
 
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smaneck

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you need to stop getting your turban in a twist, when you can answer me post 357 and 358 your self and not some link from someone else, i will be happy to commence proceedings with you. shalom:liturgy: i think its only fair as i have answered all your questions :preach:

You are getting on people's nerves, Optimus. People answer your question yet you refuse to even look at what your shown or consider what it means. There is nothing we can do about that.
 
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LoAmmi

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Im still waiting for a response from you about this.

He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
you still have yet to show scripture to back this Judaism prophesy up that the messiah will be a great military leader that will win battles for Israel,

Zechariah 12 states:
A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel.

The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: 2 “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. 5 Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, ‘The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.’

Just prior to the Messianic age, which is what this is discussing, Israel will be attacked but will overcome that. The Messiah, who will be the leader of Israel, will win the battle. So, he's thought to be a great military leader though this. There are other parts that suggest similar things.

this is another Judaism prophesy
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah 33:15&version=KJV;GNTJeremiah 33:15

King James Version (KJV)

15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.


Judaism see this passage as
He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15).



May i ask how you see this prophesy please ?

Makes sense to me. The courts were established because Moses couldn't do it all by himself, so it makes sense that the Messiah would do the same thing since he is also a man.
 
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0ptimus

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You are getting on people's nerves, Optimus. People answer your question yet you refuse to even look at what your shown or consider what it means. There is nothing we can do about that.
Looks like you dont like my answer from the other thread if you ask me, because now your jumping on here and attacking me. when you say people nerves are you speaking for everyone ? as if you are i think you will find that's manipulation, people have there own mind and if you don't like there answers, theres no need to be insulting is there
 
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0ptimus

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Zechariah 12 states:
A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel.

The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: 2 “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. 5 Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, ‘The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.’

Just prior to the Messianic age, which is what this is discussing, Israel will be attacked but will overcome that. The Messiah, who will be the leader of Israel, will win the battle. So, he's thought to be a great military leader though this. There are other parts that suggest similar things.



Makes sense to me. The courts were established because Moses couldn't do it all by himself, so it makes sense that the Messiah would do the same thing since he is also a man.
thanks but this seems like an end time prophesy to me
 
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LoAmmi

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thanks but this seems like an end time prophesy to me

We don't have the same concept, but the Messiah comes at that point in time, not before. The Messiah is basically at the end and his arrival transforms the world because right now universal peace is a concept that would never happen.
 
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0ptimus

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When he allows his followers to pick the grain on shabbat and then argues that it's ok because David had to eat the bread for the priests when he was starving. I don't think the disciples were starving, so the entire premise that it is ok to break shabbat if you are saving a life. That is a violation of Torah.

Now what Christians have argued to me is that since they believe he is G-d, he can do what he wants. I disagree.
God can save lives every day and God can do what he like and God if he wants to can help someone on the sabbath, you would have to be higher than God to tell him not to,
 
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smaneck

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God can save lives every day and God can do what he like and God if he wants to can help someone on the sabbath, you would have to be higher than God to tell him not to,

Sounds like the disciples helped themselves.
 
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ContraMundum

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LoAmmi/Optimus-

It's all a matter of interpretation. Rabbinic Jews rarely allow the plain reading when it threatens their belief system (eg any RJ reading of Isa 53 will empty the text of its plainest rendering) and will try to say "you don't understand Hebrew" or some other useless point and follow the interpretations of their past leaders instead and Christians tend to overstate their case when texts are not clearly Messianic.

So, make up your own mind, work hard at it and follow your conscience. Don't expect the other guy to change because you have a different opinion.
 
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0ptimus

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LoAmmi/Optimus-

It's all a matter of interpretation. Rabbinic Jews rarely allow the plain reading when it threatens their belief system (eg any RJ reading of Isa 53 will empty the text of its plainest rendering) and will try to say "you don't understand Hebrew" or some other useless point and follow the interpretations of their past leaders instead and Christians tend to overstate their case when texts are not clearly Messianic.

So, make up your own mind, work hard at it and follow your conscience. Don't expect the other guy to change because you have a different opinion.
Correct it is a matter oh how one reads the bible, and i am happy for any religion that prays to God, Yeshua God of Abraham and Isac.

I don't think Loammi is trying to convert me, and i hope he does not think i am trying to convert him, (two meanings to this one in the new testament and one the old testament, in the new t (nor jew nor gentile God has made no distinction, and in the old t, Genesis 1:26–27 26 Then God said, o“Let us make man8 in our image, pafter our likeness. And qlet them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”



The first thing to understand in this discussion is that there is only one race—the human race. Caucasians, Africans, Asians, Indians, Arabs, and Jews are not different races. Rather, they are different ethnicities of the human race. All human beings have the same physical characteristics (with minor variations, of course). More importantly, all human beings are created in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27). God loved the world so much that He sent Jesus to lay down His life for us (John 3:16). The “world” obviously includes all ethnic groups.

God does not show partiality or favoritism (Deuteronomy 10:17; Acts 10:34; Romans 2:11; Ephesians 6:9), and neither should we. James 2:4 describes those who discriminate as “judges with evil thoughts.” Instead, we are to love our neighbors as ourselves (James 2:8). In the Old Testament, God divided humanity into two “racial” groups: Jews and Gentiles. God’s intent was for the Jews to be a kingdom of priests, ministering to the Gentile nations. Instead, for the most part, the Jews became proud of their status and despised the Gentiles. Jesus Christ put an end to this, destroying the dividing wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:14). All forms of racism, prejudice, and discrimination are affronts to the work of Christ on the cross.

Jesus commands us to love one another as He loves us (John 13:34). If God is impartial and loves us with impartiality, then we need to love others with that same high standard. Jesus teaches in Matthew 25 that whatever we do to the least of His brothers, we do to Him. If we treat a person with contempt, we are mistreating a person created in God’s image; we are hurting somebody whom God loves and for whom Jesus died.

Racism, in varying forms and to various degrees, has been a plague on humanity for thousands of years. Brothers and sisters of all ethnicities, this should not be. Victims of racism, prejudice, and discrimination need to forgive. Ephesians 4:32 declares, “Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.” Racists may not deserve your forgiveness, but we deserved God’s forgiveness far less. Those who practice racism, prejudice, and discrimination need to repent. “Present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God” (Romans 6:13). May Galatians 3:28 be completely realized, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus and if it helps God to”
 
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0ptimus

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Ok how about this prophesy can anyone explain this
Daniel 9:24 (G.n.t
24 “Seven times seventy years is the length of time God has set for freeing your people and your holy city from sin and evil. Sin will be forgiven and eternal justice established, so that the vision and the prophecy will come true, and the holy Temple[a] will be rededicated.




Seven times seventy years = 490 years how long was the bible silent, ie there was no word from the bible from the old to the new testament for many year, is this a prophesy about Jesus coming.
 
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0ptimus

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Ok how about this prophesy can anyone explain this
Daniel 9:24

24 “Seven times seventy years is the length of time God has set for freeing your people and your holy city from sin and evil. Sin will be forgiven and eternal justice established, so that the vision and the prophecy will come true, and the holy Temple[a] will be rededicated.




Seven times seventy years = 490 years how long was the bible silent, ie there was no word from the bible from the old to the new testament for many year, is this a prophesy about Jesus coming.
 
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smaneck

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Ok how about this prophesy can anyone explain this
Daniel 9:24

24 “Seven times seventy years is the length of time God has set for freeing your people and your holy city from sin and evil. Sin will be forgiven and eternal justice established, so that the vision and the prophecy will come true, and the holy Temple[a] will be rededicated.

Actually, Abdu'l-Baha seems to agree with you on that one, although you would have to take his reasoning a bit further:

"in the Book of Daniel, from the rebuilding of Jerusalem to the martyrdom of Christ, seventy weeks are appointed; for by the martyrdom of Christ the sacrifice is accomplished and the altar destroyed. 4 This is a prophecy of the manifestation of Christ. These seventy weeks begin with the restoration and the rebuilding of Jerusalem, concerning which four edicts were issued by three kings.
The first was issued by Cyrus in the year 536 B.C.; this is recorded in the first chapter of the Book of Ezra. The second edict, with reference to the rebuilding of Jerusalem, is that of Darius of Persia in the year 519 B.C.; this is recorded in the sixth chapter of Ezra. The third is that of Artaxerxes in the seventh year of his reign—that is, in 457 B.C.; this is recorded in the seventh chapter of Ezra. The fourth is that of Artaxerxes in the year 444 B.C.; this is recorded in the second chapter of Nehemiah.
But Daniel refers especially to the third edict which was issued in the year 457 B.C. Seventy weeks make four hundred and ninety days. Each day, according to the text of the Holy Book, is a year. For in the Bible it is said: “The day of the Lord is one year.” 5 Therefore, four hundred and ninety days are four hundred and ninety years. The third edict of Artaxerxes was issued four hundred and fifty-seven years before the birth of Christ, and Christ when He was martyred and ascended was thirty-three years of age. When you add thirty-three to four hundred 41 and fifty-seven, the result is four hundred and ninety, which is the time announced by Daniel for the manifestation of Christ.
But in the twenty-fifth verse of the ninth chapter of the Book of Daniel this is expressed in another manner, as seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and apparently this differs from the first saying. Many have remained perplexed at these differences, trying to reconcile these two statements. How can seventy weeks be right in one place, and sixty-two weeks and seven weeks in another? These two sayings do not accord.
But Daniel mentions two dates. One of these dates begins with the command of Artaxerxes to Ezra to rebuild Jerusalem: this is the seventy weeks which came to an end with the ascension of Christ, when by His martyrdom the sacrifice and oblation ceased.
The second period, which is found in the twenty-sixth verse, means that after the termination of the rebuilding of Jerusalem until the ascension of Christ, there will be sixty-two weeks: the seven weeks are the duration of the rebuilding of Jerusalem, which took forty-nine years. When you add these seven weeks to the sixty-two weeks, it makes sixty-nine weeks, and in the last week (69–70) the ascension of Christ took place. These seventy weeks are thus completed, and there is no contradiction.
Now that the manifestation of Christ has been proved by the prophecies of Daniel, let us prove the manifestations of Bahá’u’lláh and of the Báb. Up to the present we have only mentioned rational proofs; now we shall speak of traditional proofs.
In the eighth chapter of the Book of Daniel, verse thirteen, it is said: “Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary 42 and the host to be trodden under foot?” Then he answered (v. 14): “Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed”; (v. 17) “But he said unto me … at the time of the end shall be the vision.” That is to say, how long will this misfortune, this ruin, this abasement and degradation last? meaning, when will be the dawn of the Manifestation? Then he answered, “Two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.” Briefly, the purport of this passage is that he appoints two thousand three hundred years, for in the text of the Bible each day is a year. Then from the date of the issuing of the edict of Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem until the day of the birth of Christ there are 456 years, and from the birth of Christ until the day of the manifestation of the Báb there are 1844 years. When you add 456 years to this number it makes 2300 years. That is to say, the fulfillment of the vision of Daniel took place in the year A.D. 1844, and this is the year of the Báb’s manifestation according to the actual text of the Book of Daniel. Consider how clearly he determines the year of manifestation; there could be no clearer prophecy for a manifestation than this.
In Matthew, chapter 24, verse 3, Christ clearly says that what Daniel meant by this prophecy was the date of the manifestation, and this is the verse: “As He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?” One of the explanations He gave them in reply was this (v. 15): “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand).” In this answer He referred them to the eighth chapter of the Book of Daniel, saying that everyone who reads it will understand that it is this time that is spoken of. Consider how clearly the manifestation of the Báb is spoken 43 of in the Old Testament and in the Gospel.
To conclude, let us now explain the date of the manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh from the Bible. The date of Bahá’u’lláh is calculated according to lunar years from the mission and the Hejira of Muḥammad; for in the religion of Muḥammad the lunar year is in use, as also it is the lunar year which is employed concerning all commands of worship.
In Daniel, chapter 12, verse 6, it is said: “And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by Him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and that when He shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.” 6
As I have already explained the signification of one day, it is not necessary to explain it further; but we will say briefly that each day of the Father counts as a year, and in each year there are twelve months. Thus three years and a half make forty-two months, and forty-two months are twelve hundred and sixty days. The Báb, the precursor of Bahá’u’lláh, appeared in the year 1260 from the Hejira of Muḥammad, by the reckoning of Islám.
Afterward, in verse 11, it is said: “And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolation be set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.” 7
The beginning of this lunar reckoning is from the day of the proclamation of the prophethood of Muḥammad in the 44 country of Ḥijáz; and that was three years after His mission, because in the beginning the prophethood of Muḥammad was kept secret, and no one knew it save Khadíjah and Ibn Nawfal. 8 After three years it was announced. And Bahá’u’lláh, in the year 1290 from the proclamation of the mission of Muḥammad, caused His manifestation to be known."

So by the same reasoning that you use these verses to apply to Jesus, you can also prove the Prophethood of Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Loammi, are you enjoying this?
I know, a lot of it has to do with the Maccabean Revolt. But hey, I don't have any problem with prophecies being fulfilled more than once. ;)
 
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ViaCrucis

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I've wondered if it's not perhaps more sensible that in Daniel, the messiah in question is perhaps a reference concerning Cyrus; rather than the messiah.

I don't particularly think Daniel is talking about far off future events; but describing apocalyptically the events of the Maccabean period. An opinion that has generally not well received over on the Eschatology subforum.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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smaneck

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I've wondered if it's not perhaps more sensible that in Daniel, the messiah in question is perhaps a reference concerning Cyrus; rather than the messiah.

To my knowledge Daniel never uses the word "Messiah." Instead he speaks of a Son of Man who is clearly a supernatural figure. I don't think that would apply to Cyrus.

I don't particularly think Daniel is talking about far off future events; but describing apocalyptically the events of the Maccabean period. An opinion that has generally not well received over on the Eschatology subforum.

-CryptoLutheran

That it most definitely is. It is what I meant about prophecies being fulfilled more than once. In the context in which Daniel is revealed it is talking about events of the Maccabean period.
 
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