why do jews reject jesus?

[ViaCrucis]

To my knowledge Daniel never uses the word "Messiah." Instead he speaks of a Son of Man who is clearly a supernatural figure. I don't think that would apply to Cyrus.

Twice in ch. 9 Daniel uses messiah (מָשִׁיח&#1463, verses 25 and 26. Which is what I had in mind.

For example,

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." (verse 25)

Christian interpretation has, generally I think, been to understand "Messiah the Prince" to be the Messiah, which as Christians means Jesus. I'm just thinking that it may make more sense to understand that this messiah here is Cyrus. Not the Messiah, but a messiah. (c.f. Isaiah 45:1)

-CryptoLutheran

That it most definitely is. It is what I meant about prophecies being fulfilled more than once. In the context in which Daniel is revealed it is talking about events of the Maccabean period.

 

[smaneck]

Ah, I see what you mean. Rashi seems to agree with you that the messiah in this context is Cyrus the Great.

Prophecy of Seventy Weeks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Twice in ch. 9 Daniel uses messiah (מָשִׁיח&#1463, verses 25 and 26. Which is what I had in mind.

For example,

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." (verse 25)

Christian interpretation has, generally I think, been to understand "Messiah the Prince" to be the Messiah, which as Christians means Jesus. I'm just thinking that it may make more sense to understand that this messiah here is Cyrus. Not the Messiah, but a messiah. (c.f. Isaiah 45:1)

-CryptoLutheran

 

[naveed]

so why do jews reject jesus?

 

[LoAmmi]

As stated over a year ago, it isn't so much as rejecting Jesus as looking to the Prophets for the keys to recognizing the Messiah and finding nobody who fits that bill. It would be just as correct to say I currently reject you as Messiah.

 

[Hawkins]

so why do jews reject jesus?

It is because the Pharisees failed to listen to what God would like to say. The Pharisees back then controls (or has deep influence) about what considered to be theologically correct. While a lot of Jews back then long for a Messiah being a military leader driving out the Romans. They thus portray with hearsay a Messiah to suit their desire but that's not what God would send. That's why it's been 1400 years that they don't have a Messiah they desire and they don't have a prophet either since Malachi. All they have is a 2000 year Exile for the reason how they deviated from and failed to listen to God.

 

[LoAmmi]

It is because the Pharisees failed to listen to what God would like to say. The Pharisees back then controls (or has deep influence) about what considered to be theologically correct. While a lot of Jews back then long for a Messiah being a military leader driving out the Romans. They thus portray with hearsay a Messiah to suit their desire but that's not what God would send. That's why it's been 1400 years that they don't have a Messiah they desire and they don't have a prophet either since Malachi. All they have is a 2000 year Exile for the reason how they deviated from and failed to listen to God.

Hosea told us we would spend a long time scattered without sacrifice or prophet, so it isn't unexpected that these things would happen. We also don't have a bunch of prophecies about things happening "soon" and taking 2000 years. So if you're going to throw it at us that we've waited a long time, well, the clock is ticking for you too.

As far as the military leader "hearsay", I don't call reading the Prophets and taking what they say to expect to be "hearsay".

 

[Hawkins]

Hosea told us we would spend a long time scattered without sacrifice or prophet, so it isn't unexpected that these things would happen. We also don't have a bunch of prophecies about things happening "soon" and taking 2000 years. So if you're going to throw it at us that we've waited a long time, well, the clock is ticking for you too.

As far as the military leader "hearsay", I don't call reading the Prophets and taking what they say to expect to be "hearsay".

Hosea most likely is talking about the Exile in Babylon instead of a 2000 years of Exile. And in each and every Exile God will send prophets around as a sign that God is still waiting for their returning back to God.

A military leader is never prophesied in the Bible but as a fact it is desired by the Jews at Jesus time. Modern Jewish concept on the other hand was re-developed (possibly from scratch) after 70 AD with most elite Pharisees killed in Jerusalem siege. That's why today's Judaism doesn't follow the Pharisaic concept at Jesus time in terms of immortal soul/sheol etc.

Our clock is ticking of course however we expect that Jesus' second return marks the judgment day. It won't come too soon and we will not make a second mistake the Jews made by making a judgment basing on our desire and hearsay.

 

[LoAmmi]

A military leader is never prophesied in the Bible but as a fact it is desired by the Jews at Jesus time.

Sorry, that is simply incorrect. There are prophecies such as Zechariah 12 that show a Jerusalem besieged with war when the nations attack it and the Lord will deliver the people and the house of David will be restored. It ties into things like Ezekiel 38. The idea that Israel is attacked on all sides before it is restored is in plenty of the Prophets.

 

[Hawkins]

Sorry, that is simply incorrect. There are prophecies such as Zechariah 12 that show a Jerusalem besieged with war when the nations attack it and the Lord will deliver the people and the house of David will be restored. It ties into things like Ezekiel 38. The idea that Israel is attacked on all sides before it is restored is in plenty of the Prophets.

So do you mean to say that Israel is prophesied to be restored by a military leader? Israel is considered restored now in Israel which putting an end to the 2000 years of exile but without a military leader type Messiah. Or do you mean that Israel will be put to yet another exile for a military Messiah to restore?

Or much simpler, those prophecies are never about a military Messiah. And those "restore" prophecies are more about the Babylon exile where God sent prophets to be along with His people even during the years of exile.

 

[LoAmmi]

So do you mean to say that Israel is prophesied to be restored by a military leader? Israel is considered restored now in Israel which putting an end to the 2000 years of exile but without a military leader type Messiah. Or do you mean that Israel will be put to yet another exile for a military Messiah to restore?

Israel is a modern, secular nation-state. It is not a Torah based nation as described in the Tanach.

Or much simpler, those prophecies are never about a military Messiah. And those "restore" prophecies are more about the Babylon exile where God sent prophets to be along with His people even during the years of exile.

We're going to disagree on this point.

 

[Hawkins]

Israel is a modern, secular nation-state. It is not a Torah based nation as described in the Tanach.

So a military leader will restore a Torah-based Jewish nation? Restore from what then?

We're going to disagree on this point.

Of course, because you are running out of points at all.

 

[LoAmmi]

So a military leader will restore a Torah-based Jewish nation? Restore from what then?

The Tanach is clear that Israel is restored when all Jews live in Israel, when the Torah flows out from Jerusalem, when all Jews keep the Torah, when there is a king sitting on the Throne of David, and all that. We aren't there right now. We're not even close.

Not to mention entire sections discussing world peace, universal knowledge of HaShem, and all that which the prophets tie closely to the king of Israel, the messiah.

Of course, because you are running out of points at all.

I'm not running out of points. I posted relevant scripture. We disagree on it, as is going to happen as we are of two different faiths. If you want to get into a big battle of "Uh huh" "Nuh uh!" then you'll have to find yourself another Jew.

 

[smaneck]

Our clock is ticking of course however we expect that Jesus' second return marks the judgment day. It won't come too soon and we will not make a second mistake the Jews made by making a judgment basing on our desire and hearsay.

i beg to differ with you on that. one.

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/o/BNE/bne-177.html

 

[LoAmmi]

i beg to differ with you on that. one.

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/o/BNE/bne-177.html

I do love that their decision isn't based upon desire and hearsay but ours certainly must be. Do you think he means to suggest that Jews do not genuinely believe Judaism?

 

[He is Risen 72]

The Jews are just fulfilling prophecy as written in Scripture. Scripture says they will turn away from the true God and deny Him.

 

[smaneck]

The Jews are just fulfilling prophecy as written in Scripture. Scripture says they will turn away from the true God and deny Him.

Well, since you've already made up your mind as to why jews believe what they do there is no sense in asking them, is there?

Frankly, i get rather tired of your anti-semitism.

 

[danny ski]

The Jews are just fulfilling prophecy as written in Scripture. Scripture says they will turn away from the true God and deny Him.

You have to rephrase that. Jews rejected your godman is a more accurate statement.

 

[gordonhooker]

I don't believe Jews reject Jesus they just don't believe the prophecies about the Messiah have come to pass.

 

[LoAmmi]

I don't believe Jews reject Jesus they just don't believe the prophecies about the Messiah have come to pass.

Exactly.

 

[He is Risen 72]

Well, since you've already made up your mind as to why jews believe what they do there is no sense in asking them, is there?

Frankly, i get rather tired of your anti-semitism.

There is nothing Anti-Semitic about God’s Holy Scriptures.