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why do jews reject jesus?

do jews reject jesus?

  • yes jews do reject jesus.

  • jews don't reject jesus.

  • don't know that jews reject jesus.


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0ptimus

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The text from Hosea is a statement about the past. Prophesies are about the future. Hence, it is not a prophecy. Is this really that difficult?
yes if you try to understand somone for the first time inside the space of 1 minute. but i actual saw Hosea 11:1 was talking about jacob and then after spotting something to night on the internet and in my book (the illustrated bible. I brought someone elses belief that it was a prophesy about it being about Jesus and also i had to consider other beliefs that Hosea 11:1 was about Israel the people.


Now in the old testament there is scripture that is hard to understand so on that sense yes it can be difficult, so is that difficult for you to understand ?

Stories like in Ezekiel cooking in cow dung and other stories like talking donkeys can be hard to understand. chow chow :wave:
 
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0ptimus

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Judaism, in general, has no concept of Hell. There are some differing opinions, but Hell would be an extreme minority view.

Israel is HaShem's firstborn son. Exodus 4:22 states it as much with what Moses is to say to Pharaoh.
what are your views about Satan,
Do you believe he fell from heaven ?.
 
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LoAmmi

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what are your views about Satan,
Do you believe he fell from heaven ?.

No. There are no rebellious angels. In the Tanach, HaSatan is mentioned less than a dozen times in the entire text and in none of it is he in any sort of direct rebellion against HaShem. He is an angel that acts in the exact way he is commanded.
 
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LoAmmi

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wow i have often wondered how can angels be evil. so the times he is mentioned in the tanach you say 12 times all time he is just being instructed ? by God

Yes. In Job he actually just walks right into the Heavenly court and HaShem asks him what he's been up to.
 
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0ptimus

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A Book of Remembrance

16 Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another,
And the Lord listened and heard them;
So a book of remembrance was written before Him
For those who fear the Lord
And who meditate on His name.

17 “They shall be Mine,” says the Lord of hosts,
“On the day that I make them My jewels.[a]
And I will spare them
As a man spares his own son who serves him.

what is your view on this last 2 sentences hear i will spare them in the sense what happens to them if there not spared
 
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0ptimus

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well i have read that there punished but how long for i don't know, im sort of on the fence with This one.

This talk about hell in the new testement i think is to harsh (and one of the reason i struggle to understand the entire context, passages like if you call your brother a fool you willl be sent to hell mathew 5:22 and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. (This i believe is Jesuses words) but Moses murdered and he was made high priest. that makes no sense to me


I found an interesting article that needs time to be studied but have a look

Does this Old Testament verse point to hell? Isaiah 66:24 is quoted by Jesus in Mark 9:44, and this is what is?

The English word ‘hell’ comes from a 4th century Anglo-Saxon word meaning ‘to conceal’ or ‘to cover’. In the Authorised Version, first published in 1611, the Hebrew word Sheol is translated ‘hell’ 31 times, ‘grave’ 31 times and ‘the pit’ 3 times in the Old Testament. The New International Version, first published in 1979, has ‘grave’ 55 times, ‘death’ 6 times plus 3 other phrases.

In many instances the Old Testament gives no indication that Sheol has anything to do with reward or punishment. Everyone goes there, from the best of men to the worst. However, there are some places in which Sheol is seen as a place of punishment for the wicked (Job 21:13; 24:19; Psalm 9:17; Proverbs 5:5; Ecclesiastes 12:14; Deuteronomy 32:22). Interestingly, the Old Testament teaches that for God’s people there was to be deliverance from Sheol (Psalm 49:15; 73:23). Old Testament believers were able to break through the natural fear of death and rejoice in the assurance that they would ‘dwell in the house of the Lord for ever’ (Psalm 23:6).

The first translation of the Old Testament into Greek, the Septuagint, dates from around 250 B.C. In 61 cases out of 65 the Old Testament word Sheol is translated by the Greek word Hades, regardless of the context in which it was originally used. However, the word Hades occurs only 10 times in the New Testament, and only in Matthew, Luke, Acts and Revelation. The Authorised Version always translates it as ‘hell’, the New International Version retains Hades in 5 places and renders it as ‘grave’ twice, ‘depths’ twice and ‘hell’ once.

What did the New Testament writers mean when they used the word Hades? During the 400 years that elapsed between the end of the Old Testament and the beginning of the New there were some very significant developments. In particular, the Jews came to believe that Sheol was divided into two sections, one in which the wicked were punished for their sins and the other, often called ‘paradise’ or ‘Abraham’s bosom’ in which the righteous experienced great joy. This is the background to the story Jesus told about a poor but good man who died and went to ‘Abraham’s side’ and a rich but wicked man who also died and went to Hades. What was the point of Jesus’ story (in Luke 16:19-31)? Jesus was familiar with current teaching about Sheol, and with the way in which religious teachers of that time used parables to get their message across, so it was natural for him to weave Sheol into a parable in order to make two major points:
The eternal destinies of the righteous and the unrighteous are vastly different
Their destinies are settled while they are here on earth.

In Matthew 11:23-24 when Jesus said the people of Capernaum would not be ‘lifted up to the skies’ (a biblical phrase for heaven) but ‘go down to Hades’, it is obvious that Hades is in direct contrast to heaven; in other words that it means hell, a place of punishment for the ungodly. The only other time when Jesus used the word was when he told Peter that he would build his church and ‘the gates of Hades will not overcome it’ (Matthew 16:18). The meaning is clear: Hades is the headquarters of evil, none of whose attacks would ever be able to destroy the Christian church. That promise has already held good for 2,000 years! In Revelation 1:18, Jesus tells John ‘Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.’ What this tells us is that Jesus Christ, who conquered death, has absolute authority over both death and the entire unseen world beyond it. The fact that he holds the keys of death means that he and he alone determines when people die – it is Christ who unlocks the gate of death to let man in.

But he also unlocks the gate of Hades to let men out. ‘The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire’ (Revelation 20:13-14). This shows us that Hades is not eternal. It is an intermediate state, and the souls of all who enter it at death will be forced to leave it in preparation for the Day of Judgement. Just as death and Hades were joined together in their power over men, so they are both discarded when they can serve no further purpose in God’s plan. ‘If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire’ (Revelation 20:15). Being thrown into this death beyond death, the ‘lake of fire’, is virtually the last thing the Bible has to say about the fate of the ungodly. John calls it ‘the fiery lake of burning sulphur’ (Revelation 21:8) – his language leaves a terrible impression of finality.

Gehenna was a literal place – the valley of Ben Hinnom. Josiah turned it from a place of idol worship into a public rubbish dump in which all the offal and filth of Jerusalem was poured. Later, the bodies of animals and even the corpses of criminals were flung there and left to rot or to be consumed by the fire that was kept constantly burning to dispose of the stinking mass of garbage.

Gehenna appears 12 times in the New Testament and 11 times out of the 12 that it occurs, it is Jesus who uses it. Nor does he mince his words. He speaks about a person’s whole body being ‘thrown into hell’ (Matthew 5:29), of those who will be ‘thrown into the fire of hell’ (Matthew 18:9), and of hypocrites being ‘condemned to hell’ (Matthew 23:33). When sending out his 12 apostles on their first mission he warned them of the persecution they would face and added, ‘Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell’ (Matthew 10:28). Whatever ‘hell’ means, Jesus taught that going there is a worse fate than being murdered. Elsewhere he spoke of it as being a place ‘where the fire never goes out’ (Mark 9:43) and where ‘their worm does not die’ (Mark 9:48).

Sheol is sometimes used to refer to death or the grave, mainly to the place to which all the dead go and occasionally to the place of punishment for the wicked. Hades refers to a temporary place of punishment for the wicked. Gehenna is by far the clearest and most vivid of the three ‘hell’ words and includes (as none of the others does) the punishment of both body and soul after the final Day of Judgement. Jesus, when quoting Isaiah, was talking about Gehenna, so the answer to your question is yes.
 
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0ptimus

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There's actually another problem with Matthew on Isaiah 7. Matthew delibertely changes the words to fix a problem.

Isaiah: (using a Christian translation)
4 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.


Matthew
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

Do you see it?

In Isaiah SHE will call him Immanuel. Matthew changes it to "they" because Mary didn't call Jesus Immanuel and Matthew had to fix it. Of course, nobody in the text calls him Immanuel but I'm sure you'll argue that Christians do now. But Matthew changes the text because he realizes it's a problem.
yes i see the difference he will be called imanuel to they will call him Immanuel, but you can not use this as a reason to say it is wrong, because me and you debated for a whole day on whether Israel is refereed as being a he or a she, no definite answer on that really and as you know Hebrew text does form pictures in the mind and can have more than one meaning, so that one not conclusive.
 
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0ptimus

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No. There are no rebellious angels. In the Tanach, HaSatan is mentioned less than a dozen times in the entire text and in none of it is he in any sort of direct rebellion against HaShem. He is an angel that acts in the exact way he is commanded.
ok so who was the talking snake in the garden of Eden, who tempted eve to eat from the tree of good and evil.

And why was god so disturbed that they had covered them self's up after eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil
 
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LoAmmi

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yes i see the difference he will be called imanuel to they will call him Immanuel, but you can not use this as a reason to say it is wrong, because me and you debated for a whole day on whether Israel is refereed as being a he or a she, no definite answer on that really and as you know Hebrew text does form pictures in the mind and can have more than one meaning, so that one not conclusive.

The debate of he vs she took place only in your own mind. I am saying that collective Israel cab be referred to by a singular pronoun and not always a plural one. You adding she to the discuss strengthened my position.

I have no idea what this pictures in the mind stuff you keep saying means.

ok lets discuss this one To be resurrected from the grave psalms 16:10 and fulfilled in Mathew 28:1-10


Psalm 16:10


10 because you protect me from the power of death.
I have served you faithfully,
and you will not abandon me to the world of the dead.
There is nothing in that Psalm that indicates it is a prophecy about the Messiah. What in the text shows you b that it is?
ok so who was the talking snake in the garden of Eden, who tempted eve to eat from the tree of good and evil.

And why was god so disturbed that they had covered them self's up after eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil

I don't take the story literally. I believe that the snake represents our evil impulse, but that concept is beyond the scope of this discussion.
 
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Dialogues

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... I don't take the story literally. I believe that the snake represents our evil impulse, but that concept is beyond the scope of this discussion.

That is interesting, as I am aware that Jews don't have a concept of satan or the devil.

The serpent mentioned in the Biblical story is referred to as satan in passages about Adam and his wife the Qur'an. I believe both satan and the serpent are symbolic of a satanic person who influences the inner satan within us, which you refer to as 'our evil impulse'.

A satanic person is someone who follows the promptings of his inner 'evil impulse'. However, Islamic belief is that there is also an actual satan or devil who uses incites people by use of their inner weaknesses.

It is just like a noble person such as Joseph is referred to as an angel, but this is a metaphor for that person being obedient to God and opposed to evil like the actual angels are. Joseph overcame any 'evil impulse' and resisted the seductive temptations of Potiphar's wife, nor did he succumb to any desire to take revenge for his brother's evil against him, at a time when he had power and authority over them, and could have punished them for it.

Peace.
 
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0ptimus

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The debate of he vs she took place only in your own mind. I am saying that collective Israel cab be referred to by a singular pronoun and not always a plural one. You adding she to the discuss strengthened my position.

I have no idea what this pictures in the mind stuff you keep saying means.


There is nothing in that Psalm that indicates it is a prophecy about the Messiah. What in the text shows you b that it is?


I don't take the story literally. I believe that the snake represents our evil impulse, but that concept is beyond the scope of this discussion.
ok clarification why i bring it up, Perhaps a little bit it does help the course which separates many beliefs, and as you know many warped beliefs are based upon a lack of understanding.

I have to thankyou as your beliefs have opened my eyes to much confusion.

Now it is it some Jewish beliefs that Jesus is speaking about eternal punishment in hell?. As christian see it that way too.

I do not see it that way. I see it as, (when in Isiah 66 it says the worm will not die), meaning the soul that sins, and Jesus says in mark 9 the worm will not Die (meaning the soul that sins)

Now this is the way i see it, nothing unclean can enter heaven, so the soul must be cleansed in order to get there , (Jesus speaks of no man is without sin, God speaks of every man will die in there sin.

Jesus speaks of man can be forgiven in his lifetime in the body) And God speaks of it is his will for all to be saved. (but many do not repent because of many reasons like turning away from God or being made to stumble) so on that basis I believe some souls have to be cleansed longer than others. Gods will, God speaks of he wants all to be saved and Jesus speaks of all can be forgiven. why would God want to eternally punish someone if that was the case, or why would god go to the great trouble he has to save people if he wanted to eternally punish them, and why would God speak about stumbling, (he recognizes one can fall short and no man is without sin.)
Jesus i believe came for the sinners The Jews where complete i believe but the gentiles had a hard time grasping things who where not being allowed in by the Jews. They where being stoned to death and abandoned and turned away BY hippocrits who had sinned too.

So a saviour came for the gentiles (but i still feel the gentiles are long from complete) and he came for the Jews to who are complete but not fully until they except the gentile, so he came to teach them the errors of there ways. (The messianic jews excepts the gentile) not all Jews do.

now Jesus speaks of those who stumble he speaks a helper to help you to keep the commandments, because i believe he does not want anyone to be punished in hell for to long, meaning they will still make it to heaven but they get punished longer. as revelation clearly states they where gave up from hell (the lake of fire for judgement (so not eternal).
 
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LoAmmi

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ok clarification why i bring it up, Perhaps a little bit it does help the course which separates many beliefs, and as you know many warped beliefs are based upon a lack of understanding.

I have to thankyou as your beliefs have opened my eyes to much confusion.

Now it is it some Jewish beliefs that Jesus is speaking about eternal punishment in hell?. As christian see it that way too.

I do not see it that way. I see it as, (when in Isiah 66 it says the worm will not die), meaning the soul that sins, and Jesus says in mark 9 the worm will not Die (meaning the soul that sins)

Now this is the way i see it, nothing unclean can enter heaven, so the soul must be cleansed in order to get there , (Jesus speaks of no man is without sin, God speaks of every man will die in there sin.

Jesus speaks of man can be forgiven in his lifetime in the body) And God speaks of it is his will for all to be saved. (but many do not repent because of many reasons like turning away from God or being made to stumble) so on that basis I believe some souls have to be cleansed longer than others. Gods will, God speaks of he wants all to be saved and Jesus speaks of all can be forgiven. why would God want to eternally punish someone if that was the case, or why would god go to the great trouble he has to save people if he wanted to eternally punish them, and why would God speak about stumbling, (he recognizes one can fall short and no man is without sin.)
Jesus i believe came for the sinners The Jews where complete i believe but the gentiles had a hard time grasping things who where not being allowed in by the Jews. They where being stoned to death and abandoned and turned away BY hippocrits who had sinned too.

So a saviour came for the gentiles (but i still feel the gentiles are long from complete) and he came for the Jews to who are complete but not fully until they except the gentile, so he came to teach them the errors of there ways. (The messianic jews excepts the gentile) not all Jews do.

now Jesus speaks of those who stumble he speaks a helper to help you to keep the commandments, because i believe he does not want anyone to be punished in hell for to long, meaning they will still make it to heaven but they get punished longer. as revelation clearly states they where gave up from hell (the lake of fire for judgement (so not eternal).


We believe that the Gentiles will come to us to be taught in the Messianic age. Look at Zechariah 8:23
This is what the LORD Almighty says: "In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.'"
 
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0ptimus

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Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah

Here's a pretty good page that includes what we're to look for and our expectations.
ok i post some from your link

The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David Jeremiah 23:5King James Version (KJV)
5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth,

(did Jesus not do this and what do you see as judgment and justice on the earth , political in which way ? like a politician or something ? lol


He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). (did Jesus not do this ?)

He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel.

(where is the scripture for this please do you believe in this one loammi ?
 
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