Why do demons disobey God?

[BobRyan]

Which is why I posted this --

Sorta - given that Lucifer was the most advanced, of the Angelic host he was probably more "at risk" of experiencing pride and most likely to entertain jealousy of the Son of God... so not entirely illogical. Yet it could still be argued that sin has no logical explanation in that free will system in that it involved risk - risking all - and for what??

That is what we find here -
Yesterday at 5:08 PM #4

And here
Yesterday at 4:59 PM #3

And in Isaiah 14...

And in Ezek 28

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The English translation you are using there is not what the Hebrew says.
There are alternate translations that agree with the theme of Scripture, in that Adam was in Eden, the Holy Mount of God and walked in the midst of the "angels of fire" and was covered by the anointed cherubim but the cherubim drove him out of Eden and guarded the gate...
Eden is in the third heaven, where Paradise is, as Paul also confirms.
Adam got cast out, and is fallen. Psalm 82 in the Hebrew warns the sons of God in the congregation of God above, that they must do the justice he set them over earth to do, else they will die like Adam, the one prince.
Adam was a son of God, beautiful, and was created to bring forth the living stones for building the Temple of God not made with hands for "planting the heavens", as the Word says, but now the Firstborn human being Son of God named "Israel" will "build up Zion" and His adopted sons will "Plant the heavens".
The passage is speaking of the controversy God has with the Adam spirit, and the Adam person in particular is the King of Tyre.
The Adam spirit ceases, but the person being spoken to is an Adam, and the Adam who does not repent and be born again will be cast into the Lake of Fire, soul in Body, but the Adam spirit ceases.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Bob, the passage in Ezekiel says that the prince of Tyre is an Adam. Sorry the English is confusing you, but you always need to go to the original before you accept myths about what the Word is saying, and check it out.

Eze 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art "Adam and not God," though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
...
Eze 28:9 ..."but you are Adam, and no El, in the hand of him that slays you"...


NIV: “Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: “ ‘In the pride of your heart you say, “I am a god; I sit on the throne of a god in the heart of the seas.” But you are a mere mortal and not a god, though you think you are as wise as a god.


NET: I placed you there with an anointed guardian cherub; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked about amidst fiery stones.

Satan is never called a cherub, not ever, never was he, and he is not a holy angel, and never was....You have believed a lie that is not even founded in the Word of God anywhere.
Adam was taken/laqach/raptured but not transformed, from earth to Mount Eden above, and placed in Paradise which is in the third heaven, as Paul also confirms, and set there to labor in the Garden of God and to guard/shamar it -now that is what the Hebrew word in Genesis says. Adam was set as a guard to Paradise, but when he "died" as a son of God/a prince with God, he was driven out ["divorced" is the word meaning in Hebrew], by the cherubim who then were set to guard/shamar the gate to Paradise.
Go look at the Hebrew and its meanings in the Strong's @ blueletterbible.org, and learn about the "death/muwth and fall/naphal of Adam, the one prince"

Also, Satan is still the evil principality who rules over earth by God's giving him that right to do in Genesis 3; but the Messiah gives Believers the right to cast down the powers set over humans, from the heavens over earth where the principalities rule from, until Jesus comes back to set up His kingdom of God on earth and "resets the pillars of earth", as PSalm 75:2,3 say in the Hebrew original and he does this after the rapture, as the Hebrew says.
We go up, then the evil principalities are cast down....but for now, if someone is bound by evil, Jesus said that if two of you agree touching anything it shall be done....and when Jesus sent the 70 out, they cast out demons, and the principalities binding the sick and demonized persons they prayed for "fell".

Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

[xoSawah]

This is something I've wondered myself. When everything has already been prophesied of what is to come, why would they still choose to disobey and follow Satan? Also I wonder if there are physical demons on earth... i've seen too many paranormal movies and I seriously hope theres not, lol

 

[yeshuasavedme]

This is something I've wondered myself. When everything has already been prophesied of what is to come, why would they still choose to disobey and follow Satan? Also I wonder if there are physical demons on earth... i've seen too many paranormal movies and I seriously hope theres not, lol

It is all in Enoch, as the foundational doctrine for where demons come from, and why they roam earth and seek bodies to demonize and to torture and torment and seduce and deceive, and why they Knew the Messiah and knew their appointed time for being cast into the Pit and be tormented by the satants forever had not yet come, when demons in the men called "Legion" plead with the Messiah to be allowed to go into the swine -who all immediately committed suicide.

http://summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm#99:2
Enoch 16: 8"And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. 9Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. 10As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling. 11And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless hunger and thirst, and cause offences. 12And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them."

16 From the days of the slaughter and destruction and death of the giants, from the souls of whose flesh the spirits, having gone forth, shall destroy without incurring judgement— thus shall they destroy until the day of the consummation, the great judgement in which the age shall be consummated, over the Watchers and the godless, yea, shall be wholly consummated.

2"And now as to the watchers who have sent thee to intercede for them, who had been aforetime in heaven, say to them: 3'You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth.'

4Say to them therefore: 'You have no peace.'"

 

[BobRyan]

This is something I've wondered myself. When everything has already been prophesied of what is to come, why would they still choose to disobey and follow Satan? Also I wonder if there are physical demons on earth... i've seen too many paranormal movies and I seriously hope theres not, lol

1. yes they are physically on earth.
2. They are in rebellion against God as wicked men are and they disregard the statements of God much the same as fallen men do.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Sorta - given that Lucifer was the most advanced, of the Angelic host he was probably more "at risk" of experiencing pride and most likely to entertain jealousy of the Son of God... so not entirely illogical. Yet it could still be argued that sin has no logical explanation in that free will system in that it involved risk - risking all - and for what??

That is what we find here -
Yesterday at 5:08 PM #4

And here
Yesterday at 4:59 PM #3

And in Isaiah 14...

And in Ezek 28

Bob, the passage in Ezekiel says that the prince of Tyre is an Adam.

The text in Ezek 28 makes it clear that this is about the "Covering cherub" who was created by God -- perfect.

just as the Messiah appears under a different local symbol in Isaiah 9.

NET: I placed you there with an anointed guardian cherub; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked about amidst fiery stones.

That is the origin for Lucifer - he was the primary covering cherub - Gabriel has replaced him in heaven.

 

[Pneuman777]

Something I struggle to understand is why some angels rebelled against God. From our limited understanding, angels know God's power better than we do, and they know that he is more powerful than they are. If God is truly all powerful, and vengeful, why would any angel voluntarily defy him? If God's destruction of Satan is a foregone conclusion, who would follow him?

Is it just that some would rather be annihilated than exist under Gods command?

Boy, that's a tough one. It is the one question that I can't seem to get an answer to. Why would Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels who had known Yahweh God in all his beauty and magesty rebel against Him? Was Lucifer ever given a chance to repent? What of the fallen angels? Now they are demons.

 

[xoSawah]

Are demons physical or spiritual beings though? Sorry I'm just new to all of this and have many questions and am just curious. Do they possess actual bodies? Are we able to actually see them? If someone could give me the 'Christians for Beginners' answer that would be much appreciated.

 

[football5680]

If a country cannot possibly win a war, why do they still fight? Not every decision we or the angels make is based on pure logic and reason. Our pride, impulses and emotions play a part in our decision making process and these can affect what we ultimately choose to do. The angels had a much better understanding of God but it does not prevent them from making a bad decision. The angels who rebelled can no longer be saved because of the fact that they had a much better understanding unlike humans.

Some of the angels may have been envious of the power that God has so they chose to rebel. They cannot directly hurt God so they take their vengeance on his creations. They know that they will be defeated but they will try to cause as much damage as they can before the end time.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Are demons physical or spiritual beings though? Sorry I'm just new to all of this and have many questions and am just curious. Do they possess actual bodies? Are we able to actually see them? If someone could give me the 'Christians for Beginners' answer that would be much appreciated.

Start with the book of Enoch. The answers you seek are in the book of Enoch. They are dis-embodied evil/unclean spirits, offspring of the fallen watcher angels and daughters of Adam.

After you read the book of Enoch, then when you read the Bible you will see that it totally corroborates the foundational doctrines that Enoch has laid down.

 

[Winepress777]

Something I struggle to understand is why some angels rebelled against God. From our limited understanding, angels know God's power better than we do, and they know that he is more powerful than they are. If God is truly all powerful, and vengeful, why would any angel voluntarily defy him? If God's destruction of Satan is a foregone conclusion, who would follow him?

Is it just that some would rather be annihilated than exist under Gods command?

It is men who fall. It is men who disobey and are annihilated for it. Men who are the "messengers" (angels) of the Word of God, who then "fall".
The idea that it is supernatural creatures who fell, somehow tempted, that is popular, but blatantly false teaching. It is the only reason you would ask the question, because it is a ludicrous doctrine, presenting only bizarre obstacles of confusion in God's perfect Kingdom.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Boy, that's a tough one. It is the one question that I can't seem to get an answer to. Why would Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels who had known Yahweh God in all his beauty and magesty rebel against Him? Was Lucifer ever given a chance to repent? What of the fallen angels? Now they are demons.

"Lucifer" is not a proper noun and there is no fallen angel named "Lucifer". That is not Bible doctrine, but a myth made up without foundation in the Scriptures.
You can do your research on that.
Satan's are created evil angels in heaven, with one chief Prince. Please read my prior posts on this subject and then go check it out in the word of God, which includes the book of Enoch, which book is Canon in the Ethiopian orthodox church. – And always has been, Since they received the Gospel in the first century. They long had the book of Enoch and they believed it to be sacred Scripture, and never put it aside, but kept it in their collection of books deemed sacred.

 

[chilehed]

...If God is truly all powerful, and vengeful, why would any angel voluntarily defy him?...

It's the ame reason that we do it.

 

[BobRyan]

Start with the book of Enoch. The answers you seek are in the book of Enoch. They are dis-embodied evil/unclean spirits, offspring of the fallen watcher angels and daughters of Adam.
.

Sounds like a story from a book with edits/additions as late at the first century A.D. while it falsely claims that all of it is written by Enoch the 7th from Adam thousands of years before Noah. So then untrusted.

It is not part of the biblical canon as used by Jews, apart from Beta Israel. Most Christian denominations and traditions may accept the Books of Enoch as having some historical or theological interest or significance, but they generally regard the Books of Enoch as non-canonical or non-inspired.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

Enoch the actual person, prophet, 7th from Adam, of course could be trusted but there is so much fiction... late fiction added to the book of Enoch it is not trusted.

 

[BobRyan]

Sounds like a story from a book with edits/additions as late at the first century A.D. while it falsely claims that all of it is written by Enoch the 7th from Adam thousands of years before Noah. So then untrusted.



Enoch the actual person, prophet, 7th from Adam, of course could be trusted but there is so much fiction... late fiction added to the book of Enoch it is not trusted.

But if one is looking outside the actual Bible for answers well then...

===============================================================
http://www.preparingforeternity.com/sr/sr01.htm

STORY of Redemption

LUCIFER in heaven, before his rebellion, was a high and exalted angel, next in honor to God's dear Son. His countenance, like those of the other angels, was mild and expressive of happiness. His forehead was high and broad, showing a powerful intellect. His form was perfect; his bearing noble and majestic. A special light beamed in his countenance and shone around him brighter and more beautiful than around the other angels; yet Christ, God's dear Son, had the pre-eminence over all the angelic host. He was one with the Father before the angels were created. Lucifer was envious of Christ, and gradually assumed command which devolved on Christ alone.

The great Creator assembled the heavenly host, that He might in the presence of all the angels confer special honor upon His Son. The Son was seated on the throne with the Father, and the heavenly throng of holy angels was gathered around them. The Father then made known that it was ordained by Himself that Christ, His Son, should be equal with Himself; so that wherever was the presence of His Son, it was as His own presence. The word of the Son was to be obeyed as readily as the word of the Father. His Son He had invested with authority to command the heavenly host. Especially was His Son to work in union with Himself in the anticipated creation of the

Page 14

earth and every living thing that should exist upon the earth. His Son would carry out His will and His purposes but would do nothing of Himself alone. The Father's will would be fulfilled in Him.

Lucifer was envious and jealous of Jesus Christ. Yet when all the angels bowed to Jesus to acknowledge His supremacy and high authority and rightful rule, he bowed with them; but his heart was filled with envy and hatred. Christ had been taken into the special counsel of God in regard to His plans, while Lucifer was unacquainted with them. He did not understand, neither was he permitted to know, the purposes of God. But Christ was acknowledged sovereign of heaven, His power and authority to be the same as that of God Himself. Lucifer thought that he was himself a favorite in heaven among the angels. He had been highly exalted, but this did not call forth from him gratitude and praise to his Creator. He aspired to the height of God Himself. He gloried in his loftiness. He knew that he was honored by the angels. He had a special mission to execute. He had been near the great Creator, and the ceaseless beams of glorious light enshrouding the eternal God had shone especially upon him. He thought how angels had obeyed his command with pleasurable alacrity. Were not his garments light and beautiful? Why should Christ thus be honored before himself?

He left the immediate presence of the Father, dissatisfied and filled with envy against Jesus Christ. Concealing his real purposes, he assembled the angelic host. He introduced his subject, which was himself. As one aggrieved, he related the preference God had given Jesus to the neglect of himself. He told them that henceforth all the sweet liberty the angels had enjoyed was at an end. For had not a ruler been appointed

Page 15

over them, to whom they from henceforth must yield servile honor? He stated to them that he had called them together to assure them that he no longer would submit to this invasion of his rights and theirs; that never would he again bow down to Christ; that he would take the honor upon himself which should have been conferred upon him, and would be the commander of all who would submit to follow him and obey his voice.

There was contention among the angels. Lucifer and his sympathizers were striving to reform the government of God. They were discontented and unhappy because they could not look into His unsearchable wisdom and ascertain His purposes in exalting His Son, and endowing Him with such unlimited power and command. They rebelled against the authority of the Son.

... click the link to read more of the origin of evil in the universe

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Something I struggle to understand is why some angels rebelled against God. From our limited understanding, angels know God's power better than we do, and they know that he is more powerful than they are. If God is truly all powerful, and vengeful, why would any angel voluntarily defy him? If God's destruction of Satan is a foregone conclusion, who would follow him?

Is it just that some would rather be annihilated than exist under Gods command?

The a better question is why doesn't God offer them a chance at redemption as well? What is so different about them than us? The bible doesn't go over angels and demons that much so just about anything is pure speculation or verses taken out of context, IMHO.

 

[BobRyan]

The a better question is why doesn't God offer them a chance at redemption as well? What is so different about them than us? The bible doesn't go over angels and demons that much so just about anything is pure speculation or verses taken out of context, IMHO.

In Matt 12 and 1 John 5 the Bible talks about humans for whom there is no more offer of salvation. In Luke 12 one is accountable for the light that they have. In James 2 - the demons are said to have a lot of understanding of what is fact and what is not -- though they lie they know what truth is --

John 8 says "you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" - they know the truth - and they rejected it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Sounds like a story from a book with edits/additions as late at the first century A.D. while it falsely claims that all of it is written by Enoch the 7th from Adam thousands of years before Noah. So then untrusted.



Enoch the actual person, prophet, 7th from Adam, of course could be trusted but there is so much fiction... late fiction added to the book of Enoch it is not trusted.

your opinion does not stand the test of Truth.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

In Matt 12 and 1 John 5 the Bible talks about humans for whom there is no more offer of salvation. In Luke 12 one is accountable for the light that they have. In James 2 - the demons are said to have a lot of understanding of what is fact and what is not -- though they lie they know what truth is --

John 8 says "you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" - they know the truth - and they rejected it.

in Christ,

Bob

God can seem quite 'invisible" to the regular joe who isn't a believer. I think the Op asks a interesting question. God isn't "invisible" to angels or demons. He is as much a reality to them as the sun is to us. Obviously an angel's power isn't that much greater than ours if their supposed increased wisdom and intelligence still grants them the ability to make stupid decisions.