Why do demons disobey God?

[yeshuasavedme]

But if one is looking outside the actual Bible for answers well then...

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http://www.preparingforeternity.com/sr/sr01.htm

STORY of Redemption

LUCIFER in heaven, before his rebellion, was a high and exalted angel, next in honor to God's dear Son. His countenance, like those of the other angels, was mild and expressive of happiness. His forehead was high and broad, showing a powerful intellect. His form was perfect; his bearing noble and majestic. A special light beamed in his countenance and shone around him brighter and more beautiful than around the other angels; yet Christ, God's dear Son, had the pre-eminence over all the angelic host. He was one with the Father before the angels were created. Lucifer was envious of Christ, and gradually assumed command which devolved on Christ alone.

The great Creator assembled the heavenly host, that He might in the presence of all the angels confer special honor upon His Son. The Son was seated on the throne with the Father, and the heavenly throng of holy angels was gathered around them. The Father then made known that it was ordained by Himself that Christ, His Son, should be equal with Himself; so that wherever was the presence of His Son, it was as His own presence. The word of the Son was to be obeyed as readily as the word of the Father. His Son He had invested with authority to command the heavenly host. Especially was His Son to work in union with Himself in the anticipated creation of the

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earth and every living thing that should exist upon the earth. His Son would carry out His will and His purposes but would do nothing of Himself alone. The Father's will would be fulfilled in Him.

Lucifer was envious and jealous of Jesus Christ. Yet when all the angels bowed to Jesus to acknowledge His supremacy and high authority and rightful rule, he bowed with them; but his heart was filled with envy and hatred. Christ had been taken into the special counsel of God in regard to His plans, while Lucifer was unacquainted with them. He did not understand, neither was he permitted to know, the purposes of God. But Christ was acknowledged sovereign of heaven, His power and authority to be the same as that of God Himself. Lucifer thought that he was himself a favorite in heaven among the angels. He had been highly exalted, but this did not call forth from him gratitude and praise to his Creator. He aspired to the height of God Himself. He gloried in his loftiness. He knew that he was honored by the angels. He had a special mission to execute. He had been near the great Creator, and the ceaseless beams of glorious light enshrouding the eternal God had shone especially upon him. He thought how angels had obeyed his command with pleasurable alacrity. Were not his garments light and beautiful? Why should Christ thus be honored before himself?

He left the immediate presence of the Father, dissatisfied and filled with envy against Jesus Christ. Concealing his real purposes, he assembled the angelic host. He introduced his subject, which was himself. As one aggrieved, he related the preference God had given Jesus to the neglect of himself. He told them that henceforth all the sweet liberty the angels had enjoyed was at an end. For had not a ruler been appointed

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over them, to whom they from henceforth must yield servile honor? He stated to them that he had called them together to assure them that he no longer would submit to this invasion of his rights and theirs; that never would he again bow down to Christ; that he would take the honor upon himself which should have been conferred upon him, and would be the commander of all who would submit to follow him and obey his voice.

There was contention among the angels. Lucifer and his sympathizers were striving to reform the government of God. They were discontented and unhappy because they could not look into His unsearchable wisdom and ascertain His purposes in exalting His Son, and endowing Him with such unlimited power and command. They rebelled against the authority of the Son.

... click the link to read more of the origin of evil in the universe

That is a fairy tale with no foundation in the Word of Truth.
Someone wrote it for ignorant, uninformed persons who are without the ability to believe the record of Truth which God has given us, by and through His prophets and Seers of old, and through His "Last Word" to the race of Adam, "the Son of Man from heaven", come incarnate.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The Book of Enoch online, searchable: http://summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm#99:2

Intelligent, learned and studied discourse on the Book of Enoch:
http://summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm#99:2

Enoch 16: 8"And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. 9Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. 10As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling. 11And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless hunger and thirst, and cause offences. 12And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them."

16 From the days of the slaughter and destruction and death of the giants, from the souls of whose flesh the spirits, having gone forth, shall destroy without incurring judgement— thus shall they destroy until the day of the consummation, the great judgement in which the age shall be consummated, over the Watchers and the godless, yea, shall be wholly consummated.

2"And now as to the watchers who have sent thee to intercede for them, who had been aforetime in heaven, say to them: 3'You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth.'

4Say to them therefore: 'You have no peace.'"

So when the demons in the two demoniacs of the Gaderenes cried out to the Holy Anointed One whom Enoch wrote of when he wrote their doom, they asked if HE was come to torment them before the "appointed" time, which time Enoch wrote about, and they all know -just as they know the Holy Anointed Christ, whose coming gave men the power to cast them out with a "Word".
Demons are called sons of the aliens in the OT, in the Hebrew, and in PSalm 18, they will come out of their strongholds, with fear and trembling, when they see the "Anointed One", Mssiah, Christ, and we who have been given the power of the Anointing of our Christ have the authority to cast them out.
Psalm 18:44, 45, about Christ come in flesh as the "Firstborn Son of God"named "Israel" :
"as soon as they hear the report of Me, the sons of the aliens shall submit themselves to Me... and the sons of the aliens shall come out of their fortresses/ strongholds with fear and trembling to shake from fear, tremble, quake".

foreign, alien, foreignness, that which is foreign

foreignness, foreign gods

 

[BobRyan]

That is a fairy tale with no foundation in the Word of Truth.
Someone wrote it for ignorant, uninformed persons who are without the ability to believe the record of Truth which God has given us, by and through His prophets and Seers of old, and through His "Last Word" to the race of Adam, "the Son of Man from heaven", come incarnate.

As it turns out - that quote I gave is given to us by one of God's prophets.

But I find it interesting that you side with the fable that angels/demons marry humans even though Christ in Matt 22 - states clearly Angels form no family groups. And it is known that the book of Enoch does not have manuscripts from before the time of Moses.

But still you are free to select whatever story you like.

Given that - what about this? Do you also reject this account given to us by one of God's prophets?

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http://www.whiteestate.org/books/pp/pp1.html

PATRIARCHs and Prophets

The history of the great conflict between good and evil, from the time it first began in heaven to the final overthrow of rebellion and the total eradication of sin, is also a demonstration of God's unchanging love.

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The Sovereign of the universe was not alone in His work of beneficence. He had an associate--a co-worker who could appreciate His purposes, and could share His joy in giving happiness to created beings. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God." John 1:1, 2. Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father--one in nature, in character, in purpose--the only being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. "His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6. His "goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." Micah 5:2. And the Son of God declares concerning Himself: "The Lord possessed Me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old. I was set up from everlasting. . . . When He appointed the foundations of the earth: then I was by Him, as one brought up with Him: and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him." Proverbs 8:22-30.

The Father wrought by His Son in the creation of all heavenly beings. "By Him were all things created, . . . whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him." Colossians 1:16. Angels are God's ministers, radiant with the light ever flowing from His presence and speeding on rapid wing to execute His will. But the Son, the anointed of God, the "express image of His person," "the brightness of His glory," "upholding all things by the word of His power," holds supremacy over them all. Hebrews 1:3. "A glorious high throne from the beginning," was the place of His sanctuary (Jeremiah 17:12); "a scepter of righteousness," the scepter of His kingdom. Hebrews 1:8. "Honor and majesty are before Him: strength and beauty are in His sanctuary." Psalm 96:6. Mercy and truth go before His face. Psalm 89:14.

The law of love being the foundation of the government of God, the happiness of all intelligent beings depends upon their perfect accord with its great principles of righteousness. God desires from all His creatures the service of love--service that springs from an appreciation of His character. He takes no pleasure in a forced obedience; and to all He grants freedom of will, that they may render Him voluntary service.

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So long as all created beings acknowledged the allegiance of love, there was perfect harmony throughout the universe of God. It was the joy of the heavenly host to fulfill the purpose of their Creator. They delighted in reflecting His glory and showing forth His praise. And while love to God was supreme, love for one another was confiding and unselfish. There was no note of discord to mar the celestial harmonies. But a change came over this happy state. There was one who perverted the freedom that God had granted to His creatures. Sin originated with him who, next to Christ, had been most honored of God and was highest in power and glory among the inhabitants of heaven. Lucifer, "son of the morning," was first of the covering cherubs, holy and undefiled. He stood in the presence of the great Creator, and the ceaseless beams of glory enshrouding the eternal God rested upon him. "Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering. . . . Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." Ezekiel 28:12-15.

Little by little Lucifer came to indulge the desire for self-exaltation. The Scripture says, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness." Ezekiel 28:17. "Thou hast said in thine heart, . . . I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. . . . I will be like the Most High." Isaiah 14:13, 14. Though all his glory was from God, this mighty angel came to regard it as pertaining to himself. Not content with his position, though honored above the heavenly host, he ventured to covet homage due alone to the Creator. Instead of seeking to make God supreme in the affections and allegiance of all created beings, it was his endeavor to secure their service and loyalty to himself. And coveting the glory with which the infinite Father had invested His Son, this prince of angels aspired to power that was the prerogative of Christ alone.

Now the perfect harmony of heaven was broken. Lucifer's disposition to serve himself instead of his Creator aroused a feeling of apprehension when observed by those who considered that the

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glory of God should be supreme. In heavenly council the angels pleaded with Lucifer. The Son of God presented before him the greatness, the goodness, and the justice of the Creator, and the sacred, unchanging nature of His law. God Himself had established the order of heaven; and in departing from it, Lucifer would dishonor his Maker and bring ruin upon himself. But the warning, given in infinite love and mercy, only aroused a spirit of resistance. Lucifer allowed his jealousy of Christ to prevail, and became the more determined.
To dispute the supremacy of the Son of God, thus impeaching the wisdom and love of the Creator, had become the purpose of this prince of angels. To this object he was about to bend the energies of that master mind, which, next to Christ's, was first among the hosts of God. But He who would have the will of all His creatures free, left none unguarded to the bewildering sophistry by which rebellion would seek to justify itself. Before the great contest should open, all were to have a clear presentation of His will, whose wisdom and goodness were the spring of all their joy.

The King of the universe summoned the heavenly hosts before Him, that in their presence He might set forth the true position of His Son and show the relation He sustained to all created beings. The Son of God shared the Father's throne, and the glory of the eternal, self-existent One encircled both. About the throne gathered the holy angels, a vast, unnumbered throng--"ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands" (Revelation 5:11.), the most exalted angels, as ministers and subjects, rejoicing in the light that fell upon them from the presence of the Deity. Before the assembled inhabitants of heaven the King declared that none but Christ, the Only Begotten of God, could fully enter into His purposes, and to Him it was committed to execute the mighty counsels of His will. The Son of God had wrought the Father's will in the creation of all the hosts of heaven; and to Him, as well as to God, their homage and allegiance were due. Christ was still to exercise divine power, in the creation of the earth and its inhabitants. But in all this He would not seek power or exaltation for Himself contrary to God's plan, but would exalt the Father's glory and execute His purposes of beneficence and love.

The angels joyfully acknowledged the supremacy of Christ, and prostrating themselves before Him, poured out their love and adoration. Lucifer bowed with them, but in his heart there was

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a strange, fierce conflict. Truth, justice, and loyalty were struggling against envy and jealousy. The influence of the holy angels seemed for a time to carry him with them. As songs of praise ascended in melodious strains, swelled by thousands of glad voices, the spirit of evil seemed vanquished; unutterable love thrilled his entire being; his soul went out, in harmony with the sinless worshippers, in love to the Father and the Son. But again he was filled with pride in his own glory. His desire for supremacy returned, and envy of Christ was once more indulged. The high honors conferred upon Lucifer were not appreciated as God's special gift, and therefore, called forth no gratitude to his Creator. He glorified in his brightness and exaltation and aspired to be equal with God. He was beloved and reverenced by the heavenly host, angels delighted to execute his commands, and he was clothed with wisdom and glory above them all. Yet the Son of God was exalted above him, as one in power and authority with the Father. He shared the Father's counsels, while Lucifer did not thus enter into the purposes of God. "Why," questioned this mighty angel, "should Christ have the supremacy? Why is He honored above Lucifer?"

click the link at that top to read this more detailed account of the origin of evil...

 

[BobRyan]

That same prophet of God says this --

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/gc/gc02.htm


CHAPTER 1
The Fall of Satan
The Lord has shown me that Satan was once an honored angel in heaven, next to Jesus Christ. His countenance was mild, expressive of happiness like the other angels. His forehead was high and broad, and showed great intelligence. His form was perfect. He had noble, majestic bearing. And I saw that when God said to his Son, Let us make man in our image, Satan was jealous of Jesus. He wished to be consulted concerning the formation of man. He was filled with envy, jealousy and hatred. He wished to be the highest in heaven, next to God, and receive the highest honors. Until this time all heaven was in order, harmony and perfect subjection to the government of God.

It was the highest sin to rebel against the order and will of God. All heaven seemed in commotion. The angels were marshaled in companies with a commanding angel at their head. All the angels were astir. Satan was insinuating against the government of God, ambitious to exalt himself, and unwilling to submit to the authority of Jesus. Some of the angels sympathized with Satan in his rebellion, and others strongly contended for the honor and wisdom of God in giving authority to his Son. And there was contention with the angels. Satan and his affected ones, who were striving to reform the government of God, wished to look into his unsearchable wisdom to ascertain his purpose in exalting Jesus, and endowing him with such unlimited power and command. They rebelled against the authority of the Son of God, and all the angels were summoned to appear before the Father, to have their cases decided. And it was decided that Satan should be expelled from heaven, and that the angels, all who joined with Satan in the rebellion, should be turned out with him. Then there was war in heaven. Angels were engaged in the battle; Satan wished to conquer the Son of God, and those who were submissive to his will. But the good and true angels prevailed, and Satan, with his followers, was driven from heaven.

After Satan was shut out of heaven, with those who fell with him, he realized that he had lost all the purity and glory of heaven forever. Then he repented and wished to be reinstated again in heaven. He was willing to take his proper place, or any place that might be assigned him. But no, heaven must not be placed in jeopardy. All heaven might be marred should he be taken back; for sin originated with him, and the seeds of rebellion were within him. Satan had obtained followers, those who sympathized with him in his rebellion. He and his followers repented, wept and implored to be taken back into the favor of God. But no, their sin, their hate, their envy and jealousy, had been so great that God could not blot it out. It must remain to receive its final punishment.

When Satan became fully conscious that there was no possibility of his being brought again into favor with God, then his malice and hatred began to be manifest. He consulted with his angels, and a plan was laid to still work against God's government. When Adam and Eve were placed in the beautiful garden, Satan was laying plans to destroy them. A consultation was held with his evil angels. In no way could this happy couple be deprived of their happiness if they obeyed God. Satan could not exercise his power upon them unless they should first disobey God, and forfeit his favor. They must devise some plan to lead them to disobedience that they might incur God's frown and be brought under the more direct influence of Satan and his angels. It was decided that Satan should assume another form, and manifest an interest for man. He must insinuate against God's truthfulness, create doubt whether God did mean as he said, next, excite their curiosity, and lead them to pry into the unsearchable plans of God, which Satan had been guilty of, and reason as to the cause of his restrictions in regard to the tree of knowledge.

 

[BobRyan]

Another example of insight about the origin of evil - and the reality of Satan -- from the same prophet

I was shown Satan as he once was, a happy, exalted angel. Then I was shown him as he now is. He still bears a kingly form. His features are still noble, for he is an angel fallen. But the expression of his countenance is full of anxiety, care, unhappiness, malice, hate, mischief, deceit, and every evil. That brow which was once so noble, I particularly noticed. His forehead commenced from his eyes to recede. I saw that he had so long bent himself to evil that every good quality was debased, and every evil trait was developed. His eyes were cunning, sly, and showed great penetration. His frame was large, but the flesh hung loosely about his hands and face. As I beheld him, his chin was resting upon his left hand. He appeared to be in deep thought. A smile was upon his countenance, which made me tremble, it was so full of evil and satanic slyness. This smile is the one he wears just before he makes sure of his victim, and as he fastens the victim in his snare, this smile grows horrible. {EW 152.3}

http://text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Book&bookCode=EW&lang=en&pagenumber=152

 

[yeshuasavedme]

As it turns out - that quote I gave is given to us by one of God's prophets.

..

Ellen White was not a prophet of God. What she said "God showed her" is a lie contradicting the prophets of God from Enoch to the words of the LORD Jesus Christ in the book of Revelation, which He gave to John; and Revelation closes the Words from God, and Revelation only expounds on what Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, first was shown and gave to his descendants, of whom every human being soul on earth is descended from.
I do see why you must not believe the Book of Enoch, for from the beginning to the end of it, it totally refutes the deceptions of Ellen White.
The doctrine of the Word of God is not that Satan was a holy angel, ever. There is no such thing in the Word of God and God's Word does show that the satans have one chief, and his name is not lucifer, and he is over a whole host of them, and they are evil spirits in heaven, and they are there today, and they are totally set over the fallen creation to do God's will in the curse, in the age before the cleansing of the earth for earth's millennial Sabbath, when all the hosts of Satan will be locked up and the demons/tares/offspring of the fallen elohym, will be cast into the Lake of Fire -and suffer torments forever at the 'hands' -under the power of- the satans.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Jesus was teaching from the Book of Enoch, which Book has the doctrine of Truth which God the Word gave to Enoch to write and teach about the angels in heaven who sinned and took the oath to not return to their "first habitation", but to remain in the bodies they took on to minister in, on earth, and to marry daughters of Adam and get offspring.

When Jesus stated that in the resurrection they shall be like the angels in heaven, who do not marry nor give in marriage, Jesus was teaching from the Prophet Enoch's writings..
Enoch declares that the redeemed will be united with the Father and the Son, one with them, which Jesus also prayed for His disciples; and Enoch declared that the angels in heaven do not marry nor give in marriage, but those who left their habitation in heaven to marry daughters of Adam could never enter heaven again, for their sin of unlawful, forbidden fornication.
Those who use Jesus' quotes need to know where Jesus is coming from, in teaching the doctrine of Truth.

 

[BobRyan]

Ellen White was not a prophet of God. What she said "God showed her" is a lie contradicting the prophets of God from Enoch...

1. She was a genuine prophet of God - and Enoch was as well - but the book of Enoch was not written by Enoch...
2. The Book of Enoch has additions made to it even after the birth of Christ and there is no book of Enoch manuscript from before or at the time of Moses... yet he is in real life - the 7th from Adam.
3. Fake books such as the book of Enoch get some legitimacy by including some texts via tradition which may in fact be attributed to the real Enoch.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus was teaching from the Book of Enoch,
which Book has the doctrine of Truth which God the Word gave to Enoch to write and teach about the angels in heaven who sinned and took the oath to not return to their "first habitation", but to remain in the bodies they took on to minister in, on earth, and to marry daughters of Adam and get offspring.

Jesus flatly denies that the mythology of that book is remotely true when in Matt 22 Jesus said that Angels are not created/designed with the ability to form family groups - no marriage, no family among the Angels.

When Jesus stated that in the resurrection they shall be like the angels in heaven, who do not marry nor give in marriage,

Indeed in Matt 22 Jesus' proof of the resurrection that solves the problem of family relationships in heaven that was put to Him "whose wife shall she be in the resurrection for all 7 brothers had her as their wife while living on earth" Jesus states that their puzzle was fluff - for no family relations will apply in that age to humans - just as in real life even today - Angels do not form such relationships.

Enoch declared that the angels in heaven do not marry nor give in marriage, but those who left their habitation in heaven to marry daughters of Adam could never enter heaven again, .

Which is nonsense. The angels do not have that as a function any more than trees marry humans. They are not created with that function according to Christ.

in Christ,
Bob

 

[Colter]

Something I struggle to understand is why some angels rebelled against God. From our limited understanding, angels know God's power better than we do, and they know that he is more powerful than they are. If God is truly all powerful, and vengeful, why would any angel voluntarily defy him? If God's destruction of Satan is a foregone conclusion, who would follow him?

Is it just that some would rather be annihilated than exist under Gods command?

The Universal Father delegates creative powers and authorities in his Sons, who in turn entrust their subordinate beings with administrative powers and authorities all the way down to the various orders of angels and other celestial classes of unseen beings.

For celestial beings the Universal Father is a matter of faith as well. They know their creator Son as he represents the unseen Father.

Lucifer, a very high administrator fell in love with his own brilliance, lost faith in the unseen Father and launched a rebellion against the Son's rule. He attempted a coup.

So, the reason for any beings to join Lucifer in his rebellion would be that they believed in his declaration, his conclusions, they trusted him, they could not conceive that such a high being or brilliance could be wrong. In their deluded minds and hearts they came to view the Son, aka Jesus, as the enemy who was perpetuating a fraud by maintaining unjust rule in the name of a fictitious unseen paradise Father.

Demons were just little trouble making punk rebels who could do no more then enter unstable minds and cause them to flail about.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Jesus flatly denies that the mythology of that book is remotely true when in Matt 22 Jesus said that Angels are not created/designed with the ability to form family groups - no marriage, no family among the Angels.

You really need to get the facts straight before you make claims that are proven to be in error by simple research, which is easily available to anyone with access to world history, esp the history of the ancient Patriarchs and their writings, which have existed and have been received as Truth by the ancient Israelites and by many other ancient rulers of the nations -before they changed the image of the One True God they knew about to that like the created things He made; as Paul so truthfully states in Romans, which Paul knew because Paul was a student of the writings that have come down from before the flood, to his own day -and beyond, to ours.

Jesus was telling what Enoch wrote about the angels in heaven. The Book of The Watchers opens the Book of Enoch, and that book is quoted by Jude, womb brother of the LORD Jesus Christ, and that book was sacred writing to the sons of Zadok [the Essenes] who kept it as part of their "Manuscript collections =Bible", in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Three centuries before the Christ was come incarnate, they were making copies of that book in the community of the Essenes, to study, and they left many of them in the Qumram caves.
Here is what God told Enoch to write to the fallen Watchers:
http://summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm#99:2
9And when I awaked, I came unto them, and they were all sitting gathered together, weeping in Abelsjail, which is between Lebanon and Seneser, with their faces covered. 10And I recounted before them all the visions which I had seen in sleep, and I began to speak the words of righteousness, and to reprimand the heavenly Watchers.


Enoch Recounts His Dream-Vision

14 The book of the words of righteousness, and of the reprimand of the eternal Watchers in accordance with the command of the Holy Great One in that vision. 2I saw in my sleep what I will now say with a tongue of flesh and with the breath of my mouth: which the Great One has given to men to converse therewith and understand with the heart. 3As He has created and given to man the power of understanding the word of wisdom, so hath He created me also and given me the power of reprimanding the Watchers, the children of heaven. 4I wrote out your petition, and in my vision it appeared thus, that your petition will not be granted unto you throughout all the days of eternity, and that judgement has been finally passed upon you: yea your petition will not be granted unto you. 5And from henceforth you shall not ascend into heaven unto all eternity, and in bonds of the earth the decree has gone forth to bind you for all the days of the world. 6And that previously you shall have seen the destruction of your beloved sons and ye shall have no pleasure in them, but they shall fall before you by the sword. 7And your petition on their behalf shall not be granted, nor yet on your own: even though you weep and pray and speak all the words contained in the writing which I have written.

Come Up Here!

8And the vision was shown to me thus: Behold, in the vision clouds invited me and a mist summoned me, and the course of the stars and the lightnings sped and hastened me, and the winds in the vision caused me to fly and lifted me upward, and bore me into heaven. 9And I went in till I drew nigh to a wall which is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues of fire: and it began to affright me. 10And I went into the tongues of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built of crystals: and the walls of the house were like a tesselated floor made of crystals, and its groundwork was of crystal. 11Its ceiling was like the path of the stars and the lightnings, and between them were fiery cherubim, and their heaven was clear as water. 12A flaming fire surrounded the walls, and its portals blazed with fire. 13And I entered into that house, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice: there were no delights of life therein: fear covered me, and trembling got hold upon me. 14And as I quaked and trembled, I fell upon my face.
The Vision of the Great Glory

15And I beheld a vision, And lo! there was a second house, greater than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. 16And in every respect it so excelled in splendour and magnificence and extent that I cannot describe to you its splendour and its extent. 17And its floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path of the stars, and its ceiling also was flaming fire. 18And I looked and saw therein a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of cherubim. 19And from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look thereon. 20And the Great Glory sat thereon, and His raiment shone more brightly than the sun and was whiter than any snow. 21None of the angels could enter and could behold His face by reason of the magnificence and glory, and no flesh could behold Him. 22The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him, yet He needed no counsellor. 23And the most holy ones who were nigh to Him did not leave by night nor depart from Him.

24And until then I had been prostrate on my face, trembling: and the Lord called me with His own mouth, and said to me: "Come hither, Enoch, and hear my word."

25And one of the holy ones came to me and waked me, and He made me rise up and approach the door: and I bowed my face downwards.


Enoch Hears the Voice of God

15 And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: "Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. 2And go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent thee to intercede for them: 'You should intercede for men, and not men for you: 3Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants as your sons? 4And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten children with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die and perish. 5Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. 6But you were formerly spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. 7And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling.

The Creation of Unclean Spirits

8"And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. 9Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. 10As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling. 11And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless hunger and thirst, and cause offences. 12And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them."

16 From the days of the slaughter and destruction and death of the giants, from the souls of whose flesh the spirits, having gone forth, shall destroy without incurring judgement— thus shall they destroy until the day of the consummation, the great judgement in which the age shall be consummated, over the Watchers and the godless, yea, shall be wholly consummated.

2"And now as to the watchers who have sent thee to intercede for them, who had been aforetime in heaven, say to them: 3'You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth.'

4Say to them therefore: 'You have no peace.'" {

Enoch wrote it from the mouth of God the Great Glory on the throne in heaven, who told it to Enoch to write to the Fallen Watchers their doom, when Enoch was sent to intercede for them.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

You really need to get the facts straight before you make claims that are proven to be in error by simple research, which is easily available to anyone with access to world history, esp the history of the ancient Patriarchs and their writings, which have existed and have been received as Truth by the ancient Israelites and by many other ancient rulers of the nations -before they changed the image of the One True God they knew about to that like the created things He made; as Paul so truthfully states in Romans, which Paul knew because Paul was a student of the writings that have come down from before the flood, to his own day -and beyond, to ours.

Jesus was telling what Enoch wrote about the angels in heaven. The Book of The Watchers opens the Book of Enoch, and that book is quoted by Jude, womb brother of the LORD Jesus Christ, and that book was sacred writing to the sons of Zadok [the Essenes] who kept it as part of their "Manuscript collections =Bible", in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Three centuries before the Christ was come incarnate, they were making copies of that book in the community of the Essenes, to study, and they left many of them in the Qumram caves.
Here is what God told Enoch to write to the fallen Watchers:
http://summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm#99:2
9And when I awaked, I came unto them, and they were all sitting gathered together, weeping in Abelsjail, which is between Lebanon and Seneser, with their faces covered. 10And I recounted before them all the visions which I had seen in sleep, and I began to speak the words of righteousness, and to reprimand the heavenly Watchers.


Enoch Recounts His Dream-Vision

14 The book of the words of righteousness, and of the reprimand of the eternal Watchers in accordance with the command of the Holy Great One in that vision. 2I saw in my sleep what I will now say with a tongue of flesh and with the breath of my mouth: which the Great One has given to men to converse therewith and understand with the heart. 3As He has created and given to man the power of understanding the word of wisdom, so hath He created me also and given me the power of reprimanding the Watchers, the children of heaven. 4I wrote out your petition, and in my vision it appeared thus, that your petition will not be granted unto you throughout all the days of eternity, and that judgement has been finally passed upon you: yea your petition will not be granted unto you. 5And from henceforth you shall not ascend into heaven unto all eternity, and in bonds of the earth the decree has gone forth to bind you for all the days of the world. 6And that previously you shall have seen the destruction of your beloved sons and ye shall have no pleasure in them, but they shall fall before you by the sword. 7And your petition on their behalf shall not be granted, nor yet on your own: even though you weep and pray and speak all the words contained in the writing which I have written.

Come Up Here!

8And the vision was shown to me thus: Behold, in the vision clouds invited me and a mist summoned me, and the course of the stars and the lightnings sped and hastened me, and the winds in the vision caused me to fly and lifted me upward, and bore me into heaven. 9And I went in till I drew nigh to a wall which is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues of fire: and it began to affright me. 10And I went into the tongues of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built of crystals: and the walls of the house were like a tesselated floor made of crystals, and its groundwork was of crystal. 11Its ceiling was like the path of the stars and the lightnings, and between them were fiery cherubim, and their heaven was clear as water. 12A flaming fire surrounded the walls, and its portals blazed with fire. 13And I entered into that house, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice: there were no delights of life therein: fear covered me, and trembling got hold upon me. 14And as I quaked and trembled, I fell upon my face.
The Vision of the Great Glory

15And I beheld a vision, And lo! there was a second house, greater than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. 16And in every respect it so excelled in splendour and magnificence and extent that I cannot describe to you its splendour and its extent. 17And its floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path of the stars, and its ceiling also was flaming fire. 18And I looked and saw therein a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of cherubim. 19And from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look thereon. 20And the Great Glory sat thereon, and His raiment shone more brightly than the sun and was whiter than any snow. 21None of the angels could enter and could behold His face by reason of the magnificence and glory, and no flesh could behold Him. 22The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him, yet He needed no counsellor. 23And the most holy ones who were nigh to Him did not leave by night nor depart from Him.

24And until then I had been prostrate on my face, trembling: and the Lord called me with His own mouth, and said to me: "Come hither, Enoch, and hear my word."

25And one of the holy ones came to me and waked me, and He made me rise up and approach the door: and I bowed my face downwards.


Enoch Hears the Voice of God

15 And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: "Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. 2And go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent thee to intercede for them: 'You should intercede for men, and not men for you: 3Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants as your sons? 4And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten children with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die and perish. 5Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. 6But you were formerly spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. 7And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling.

The Creation of Unclean Spirits

8"And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. 9Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. 10As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling. 11And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless hunger and thirst, and cause offences. 12And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them."

16 From the days of the slaughter and destruction and death of the giants, from the souls of whose flesh the spirits, having gone forth, shall destroy without incurring judgement— thus shall they destroy until the day of the consummation, the great judgement in which the age shall be consummated, over the Watchers and the godless, yea, shall be wholly consummated.

2"And now as to the watchers who have sent thee to intercede for them, who had been aforetime in heaven, say to them: 3'You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth.'

4Say to them therefore: 'You have no peace.'" {

Enoch wrote it from the mouth of God the Great Glory on the throne in heaven, who told it to Enoch to write to the Fallen Watchers their doom, when Enoch was sent to intercede for them.

Jude, womb brother of the LORD Jesus Christ also tells us what Enoch wrote, that the angels chained in Sheol committed fornication with "strange flesh", and kept not their "first habitation" -bodies in heaven; and that is where demons come from who are disembodied offspring of the fallen watchers and daughters of Adam, and they do not enter heaven; and as Enoch wrote: they are the disembodied evil spirits roaming on earth, doing evil for the satans, until they are taken by the angels at Jesus' return to reign when He sends His angels to cleanse the earth of all evil and to gather the Tares [bastard wheat], and cast them into the Lake of Fire; where they will be tormented by the Satans whom they are subject to, forever.

Their doom is sealed, and they know it, for Enoch delivered it to their fathers, and they know their end is coming at the appointed time, when the LORD returns to reign and to cleanse the earth of all evil, for the Sabbath Cleansing of the earth's millennial Sabbath.. and they know the Messiah, the Holy One of God, who is their judge.

Mat 8:28, 29 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed/demonized with demons, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Jude, womb brother of the LORD Jesus Christ also tells us what Enoch wrote, that the angels chained in Sheol committed fornication with "strange flesh", and kept not their "first habitation" -bodies in heaven; and that is where demons come from who are disembodied offspring of the fallen watchers and daughters of Adam, and they do not enter heaven; and as Enoch wrote: they are the disembodied evil spirits roaming on earth, doing evil for the satans, until they are taken by the angels at Jesus' return to reign when He sends His angels to cleanse the earth of all evil and to gather the Tares [bastard wheat], and cast them into the Lake of Fire; where they will be tormented by the Satans whom they are subject to, forever.

Their doom is sealed, and they know it, for Enoch delivered it to their fathers, and they know their end is coming at the appointed time, when the LORD returns to reign and to cleanse the earth of all evil, for the Sabbath Cleansing of the earth's millennial Sabbath.. and they know the Messiah, the Holy One of God, who is their judge.

Mat 8:28, 29 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed/demonized with demons, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Enoch wrote that the angels are "pillars of fire" and when they wish, they can appear as "men" -they look human, and they eat and drink and can fall and commit fornication with "strange flesh".
In Genesis 18, three appeared to Abraham looking like human beings. Abraham fed them and gave them drink.
They went to Lot in Sodom, and also ate with Lot [according to the history book called the Book of Jasher], and the men of Sodom wanted to rape them, so the angels in human form struck them blind so that they could see, but not find the door of Lot's house -all the night long!

We are told to be careful to entertain -show hospitality- to strangers, for many have entertained angels thereby -and unawares.
Jude tells us the angels who committed fornication with "strange flesh" are chained in Sheol as a warning to other angels who would be tempted, like the nuking of Sodom & Co was an everlasting warning to human beings to not commit perverted sex: but angels fell after the flood, and more men have committed fornication with "strange flesh" since the nuking of Sodom & Co. Nevertheless: the warnings are there, and no one will be able to claim they were not warned by the examples God gave of the judgment to come upon all who do such wickedness.

 

[BobRyan]

Enoch wrote that the angels are "pillars of fire" and when they wish, they can appear as "men" -they look human, and they eat and drink and can fall and commit fornication with "strange flesh".

While Enoch would be a great source - the book of Enoch is of very very recent origin as compared to "Enoch the 7th from Adam". Thus even the Jews do not include that pseudepigraphal book in their Canon. I

It does not even make the cut for the apocrypha by Jerome's standard.

There is no "Angels commit fornication" or "Angels marry people" in all of scripture.

Jude tells us the angels who committed fornication with "strange flesh" are chained in Sheol

Not in the actual Bible.

In Jude 1 the subject is contemporaries with Jude - apostates, corrupt individuals that had inserted themselves into the church. James compares them to the unfaithful Israel who died in the desert, to the angels which fell in heaven from the pristine estate, to the men of Sodom and Gomorrha who gave themselves over to fornication and strange flesh -- and the cities around them did the same thing as did Sodom and Gomorrha.

Jude 1

3. ...it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

There is no "Angels commit fornication" or "Angels marry people" in all of scripture.

Enoch is Scripture in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and in many ancient writings of those before Christ and after Christ: Your assertions are false, and proven so over and over again, by the history and the Word of God.
the Jews of Ethiopia of the first century who believed and received the Gospel had Enoch in their possession, and they never ever cast it away....and so in the late 1700's a man from England traveled to Abyssinia and brought two copies back from there, to England, and it has been translated to English since the early 1800's -but the English is archaic, and the Dead Sea Scroll discovery revealed that the Book of The Watchers, the first in the Book of Enoch, which was quoted by Jude, the Womb brother of the LORD Jesus, was in their "Bible" which means "a collection of books".
Jude read Enoch and Jude says angels committed fornication and are chained as a warning [to other angels not to do that] -but others did do that after the flood, and more nephillim were born, which Genesis tells us about and history tells us about, worldwide....and the rest of Moses' books and Joshua and Kings tell us about, as also David wrote about, and also the so called "Apocrypha" -other books of the Bible- which has many references to them, tell us about...
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/jude-says-certain-angels-committed-fornication.7513917/

 

[BobRyan]

Enoch is Scripture in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and in many ancient writings of those before Christ and after Christ: Your assertions are false, and proven so over and over again, by the history and the Word of God.
the Jews of Ethiopia of the first century who believed and received the Gospel had Enoch in their possession, and they never ever cast it away....and so in the late 1700's a man from England traveled to Abyssinia and brought two copies back from there, to England, and it has been translated to English since the early 1800's -but the English is archaic, and the Dead Sea Scroll discovery revealed that the Book of The Watchers, the first in the Book of Enoch, which was quoted by Jude, the Womb brother of the LORD Jesus, was in their "Bible" which means "a collection of books".

Interesting ideas.

But the fact is that even Josephus stated that all the Jewish canon was finalized and kept in the Temple - for over 400 years - Enoch has never been included - not even by the Jews. The fact that they knew of such a pseudepigriphal book is not disputed.

Jude read Enoch and Jude says angels committed fornication

Well he does not say that in the letter of Jude.

and are chained as a warning [to other angels not to do that] -but others did do that after the flood, and more nephillim were born, which Genesis tells us about and history tells us about, worldwide

1. No scripture is given as a warning to angels.
2. No Bible text says that Angels married humans either before the flood or after.
3. There are Nephilim before and after the flood - because Noah was Nephilim.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[brinny]

I would caution to take the apocryphal book of Enoch with more than one grain of salt. That salt being the Word of God as revealed in Holy Scripture. There are members posting here with an unhealthy and unscriptural view of the authority and reliability of this book. They should also be treated with caution.

http://www.wels.net/what-we-believe/questions-answers/witnessing/book-enoch

I agree.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Enoch has never been included - not even by the Jews....[/unquote]

You err on that. The "Jews" of pre-Christ and post Christ's ascension, who were "sons of Zadok" =the Essenes, who left their "Bible" ="collection of books" which they deemed sacred, in the Qumram caves, most certainly considered the writings of Enoch sacred, for they had many copies of it, for study, and they also had the Book of the Giants which they attributed to Enoch.
The DSS manuscripts also prove that Abraham had and used and taught from the Book of Enoch, for in the DSS scroll deemed "The Genesis Apocryphon" there is a copy of a section of Abraham's own record of his reading from the book of Enoch to the wise men of Pharaoh, who returned Sarah to him from the Pharaoh, and who asked him to teach them "wisdom, values, and truth", so he wrote; "I read to them from the book of Enoch"....

 

[yeshuasavedme]

...
2. No Bible text says that Angels married humans either before the flood or after.
...

The Hebrew word transliterated "laqach" means: "to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away", and the "sons of God/ben Elohym "laqach" bath Adam/daughters of Adam....."
Moses wrote that, which Moses knew because it is taught about in the Book of Enoch; and also, Moses knew the giants were in Canaan, among other places in his own day, which were the "after that/flood" when other sons of God "took bath Adam and went in to them" [had sexual union with them], "and giants were born".
"The remnant of the giants" that existed in Canaan which Moses wrote of were of the spirits of the fallen ones, for the "remnant of" is the "residue of", and speaks of the evil spirits they were of, because they were not of the "remnant of/residue of" the one Adam spirit, of which He made all the Adam creation by making the male and female "one, having a residue of the [Adam] spirit, because he sought godly seed" =human being sons of God [Malachi 2:15].

 

[Winepress777]

The Universal Father delegates creative powers and authorities in his Sons, who in turn entrust their subordinate beings with administrative powers and authorities all the way down to the various orders of angels and other celestial classes of unseen beings.

For celestial beings the Universal Father is a matter of faith as well. They know their creator Son as he represents the unseen Father.

Lucifer, a very high administrator fell in love with his own brilliance, lost faith in the unseen Father and launched a rebellion against the Son's rule. He attempted a coup.

So, the reason for any beings to join Lucifer in his rebellion would be that they believed in his declaration, his conclusions, they trusted him, they could not conceive that such a high being or brilliance could be wrong. In their deluded minds and hearts they came to view the Son, aka Jesus, as the enemy who was perpetuating a fraud by maintaining unjust rule in the name of a fictitious unseen paradise Father.

Demons were just little trouble making punk rebels who could do no more then enter unstable minds and cause them to flail about.

hahahaaa great story. Kind of a Star Wars thingy you got going there. But pure fiction...