Why do creationists insist that the theory of evolution is inherently atheistic?

[TLK Valentine]

Why? To what end? Why waste your time arguing over something you supposedly don't believe exists?

Because you exist. And the nonsense you'd wish to impose on the rest of us also exists. And the harm caused by attempting to shackle the unwilling to such nonsense most definitely exists.

I find it hard to believe the atheists on this Christian board don't believe in God when they come here everyday and debate His non-existence.

Belief in gods (specific sects of beliefs) have effects on the society that we all -- believers and non-believers alike -- feel. Some non-believers think that the best way to protect society from the more harmful effects is to stop it at the source.

Sometimes I think you are trying to convince yourselves more than anyone else and seeking confirmation from your fellow atheists because you are doubting your atheism.

You keep thinking that -- it has a sad "we must be special because people don't like us" quality to it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Please don't embarass those of us who are Christ-followers who believe the scriptures and don't compromise them to conform them to the man's limited, imperfect, incomplete, ever changing knowledge of God's creation.

This part of this forum is science oriented. That means you cannot retreat to the comfort of scriptures. If your beliefs are based upon reality you should be able to give some real world evidence for your claims.

 

[ThouShaltNotPoe]

Genesis 1
Chapter 1
The Creation of the World
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.
And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.
And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.
And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

Massive copy-and-pastes are the usual young earth creationist response when they have no EVIDENCE and CAN'T ANSWER a question.

So, just as I had said, he has confirmed that:

1) Genesis 1 DOES tell us WHO: God.

2) Genesis 1 sort of tells us WHERE in a general sense: the universe

3) It does NOT tell us WHAT INTERMEDIATE PROCESSES God used.

4) It does NOT tell us WHEN the events took place.

5) It does NOT tell us HOW the events took place or the physics, chemistry, or biology involved.

Indeed, Genesis 1 was NEVER INTENDED to give us scientific explanations. And that is why he FAILED to provide A Comprehensive Scientific Theory of Special Creation I've requested many times. Yet, they wish to see it taught in science classes.

 

[mathetes123]

Because you exist. And the nonsense you'd wish to impose on the rest of us also exists. And the harm caused by attempting to shackle the unwilling to such nonsense most definitely exists.



Belief in gods (specific sects of beliefs) have effects on the society that we all -- believers and non-believers alike -- feel. Some non-believers think that the best way to protect society from the more harmful effects is to stop it at the source.



You keep thinking that -- it has a sad "we must be special because people don't like us" quality to it.

So it is altruistic motives you have, to protect the world from the blight of religion? How noble of you. I am not buying it. Why do atheists somehow think that atheism is a neutral position? Atheism has been the cause of more genocides than all the religions combined. Consider the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, among others.

What damage has Christianity done to American society. Before you answer, consider this nation's founding and heritage.

 

[ThouShaltNotPoe]

Of course, it is NOT a problem that Genesis doesn't tell us the what, when, how, or even the why of the origins mentioned. God provided abundant evidence and answers to our questions by means of his creation.

But some nevertheless refuse the answers God has clearly given within the Universe because those answers conflict with their man-made TRADITIONS.

No surprise there. The Book of Proverbs tells us why.

 

[mathetes123]

Of course, it is NOT a problem that Genesis doesn't tell us the what, when, how, or even the why of the origins mentioned. God provided abundant evidence and answers to our questions by means of his creation.

But some nevertheless refuse the answers God has clearly given within the Universe because those answers conflict with their man-made TRADITIONS.

No surprise there. The Book of Proverbs tells us why.

Scripture is not a man made tradition.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So it is altruistic motives you have, to protect the world from the blight of religion? How noble of you. I am not buying it. Why do atheists somehow think that atheism is a neutral position? Atheism has been the cause of more genocides than all the religions combined. Consider the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, among others.

What damage has Christianity done to American society. Before you answer, consider this nation's founding and heritage.

And you are willing to ignore all of the death and damage done to people by Christians over the history of the Earth?

What genocides has atheism ever been responsible for? Don't confuse the man with the act. I don't want to Godwinize this topic but Hitler never rejected Christianity, yet I am not going to claim the deaths he caused were caused by Christianity.

In the same way you cannot find anyone who killed people because their atheism told them to do so.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Scripture is not a man made tradition.

Yes, it is. It was written by man. Christians try to claim it was the inspired "word of God", they come up short on proof of that statement.

 

[ThouShaltNotPoe]

Scripture is not a man made tradition.

Correct!

You are catching on.

 

[mathetes123]

And you are willing to ignore all of the death and damage done to people by Christians over the history of the Earth?

What genocides has atheism ever been responsible for? Don't confuse the man with the act. I don't want to Godwinize this topic but Hitler never rejected Christianity, yet I am not going to claim the deaths he caused were caused by Christianity.

In the same way you cannot find anyone who killed people because their atheism told them to do so.

Genocide is a natural result of a philosphy that has not absolute, objective moral boundaries.

Yes, there were people killed in the name of Christianity, but they were not following the teachings of Jesus.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Genocide is a natural result of a philosphy that has not absolute, objective moral boundaries.

Yes, there were people killed in the name of Christianity, but they were not following the teachings of Jesus.

And the same claim applies to atheism.

Why do you think that atheists cannot have objective moral boundaries. If anything they are more moral than Christians. They separate right from wrong based upon logic. Christians separate right from wrong based upon what someone told them was right and wrong. The Bible even advocates for slavery. Atheism does not do that.

 

[TLK Valentine]

So it is altruistic motives you have, to protect the world from the blight of religion?

Not at all. But by all means continue to misrepresent my position and stuff words in my mouth -- it makes your true colors come through so much clearer.

How noble of you.

Well, we all do our parts to make the world a better place, don't we?

I am not buying it.

Didn't expect you to -- inconvenient truths are the hardest to swallow.

Why do atheists somehow think that atheism is a neutral position?

I don't -- and I don't see where you'd come from that conclusion from anything I said.

Religion has spawned both the greatest and the worst that humanity has to offer. I personally think it's the responsibility of any moral person to keep the good, and take out the trash.

Young-Earth Creationism, along with the rest of the anti-evolutionary nonsense, has shown itself time and time again to be part of the "trash" pile.

Atheism has been the cause of more genocides than all the religions combined. Consider the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, among others.

You're talking correlation, not causation. Atheism was a large part of those nations, among others, but to say that those genocides were caused by atheism is a leap of logic you're clearly not ready to take.

What damage has Christianity done to American society. Before you answer, consider this nation's founding and heritage.

This nation was founded for profit. Its heritage is likewise. Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you.

I see where you're going with your question, and its clear that one piece of damage that Christianity has done has been to skew your knowledge of history. You might want to read a book on the subject.

But taken all in all, Christianity has caused more good than harm in American society, and, as a whole, is a boon (as many religions are).

However, we're not talking about Christianity, we're talking about Creationism -- which has never done an ounce of good, and firmly belongs in the trash can.

And here we can see one of the many damages of Creationsim -- it has caused you to conflate it with Christianity in general, which confuses its adherents and distracts them from matters of faith. Worse, it raises itself to the same level as Christianity, and threatens to overshadow a believer's faith in where it belongs -- the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Of course, most believers in creationism don't see the problem, which only serves to compound the damage -- which, in the name of dogma and superstition, they choose to inflict on the rest of us.

 

[AV1611VET]

God provided abundant evidence and answers to our questions by means of his creation.

Sweet!

How then, did we get our moon?

 

[KWCrazy]

What genocides has atheism ever been responsible for? Don't confuse the man with the act.

Do you reserve that priviledge for yourself exclusively?

I don't want to Godwinize this topic but Hitler never rejected Christianity,

Nor did he follow its teachings.

In the same way you cannot find anyone who killed people because their atheism told them to do so.

Actually, Hitler thought the Jews were an inferior, less evolved race. He also thought that the further east you went, the less human the people were. Hitler considered the Japanese no better than promates, but they served his purpose. So evolution, not atheism, is more the driving force for Hitler.

 

[ChristianT]

Scripture is not a man made tradition.

Au contrare: if it weren't for the Traditions of the early Christian Church, the Bible wouldn't exist as we know it. It most certainly is born of the tradition of the apostles, and in their tradition is it to be interpreted.

 

[ChristianT]

Do you reserve that priviledge for yourself exclusively?

Nor did he follow its teachings.

Actually, Hitler thought the Jews were an inferior, less evolved race. He also thought that the further east you went, the less human the people were. Hitler considered the Japanese no better than promates, but they served his purpose. So evolution, not atheism, is more the driving force for Hitler.

No, Social Darwinism, a sociological error and misunderstanding, is what fueled the Fuhrer.

 

[KWCrazy]

Why do you think that atheists cannot have objective moral boundaries.

Because the knowledge of right and wrong is a human concept, dating back to the Garden of Eden. Animals have no such knowledge.

If anything they are more moral than Christians.

Deliberate falsehood.

They separate right from wrong based upon logic.

Logically, there is no right and wrong; only what is benificial and detrimental.

Christians separate right from wrong based upon what someone told them was right and wrong.

No, we've had that knowlege since Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit.

The Bible even advocates for slavery.

Deliberate falsehood. The Bible acknowledges slavery as something men to to others, but Christ never had any slaves.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Sweet!

How then, did we get our moon?

By deifying ignorance into "God" and striving to keep that ignorance as wide as possible.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Do you reserve that priviledge for yourself exclusively?

Nor did he follow its teachings.

Actually, Hitler thought the Jews were an inferior, less evolved race. He also thought that the further east you went, the less human the people were. Hitler considered the Japanese no better than promates, but they served his purpose. So evolution, not atheism, is more the driving force for Hitler.

Talk about missing the point.

You can claim he did not follow the teachings of Christianity all that you want. He never denied his Christianity. According to the rules of this forum he was a Christian. It does not matter how wrong he was. And since Hitler did not seem to believe the theory of evolution you cannot claim that he thought races were "less evolved". The point is that he was as much of a Christian as Stalin was an atheist. In fact maybe even more so.

If you are going to make the error of attaching the deaths that occurred during Stalin's reign to atheism then you must attach Hitler's deaths to Christianity, no matter how much you think that he was not a Christian. I could use the same sort of "logic" to claim that Stalin was not an atheist.

As I said, you are making the mistake of attributing the actions of a man to a religion.

 

[ThouShaltNotPoe]

No, Social Darwinism, a sociological error and misunderstanding, is what fueled the Fuhrer.

Yes. And the Nazis BANNED (and burned) all of Darwins books and any other book promoting the theory of evolution. Indeed, Darwin's theory directly contradicting their dogma, especially their considering Aryans a superior race and TOTALLY UNRELATED to Jews, for example.

KW probably follows the popular myth that the word "evolution" in MEIN KAMPF refers to Darwin's theory when it is simply a German word that is much like the English word--- the general meaning of evolution as "development" which had existed in the language long before Darwin.