Why Do Christians Want Creationism Taught In Public Schools?

[placebo2]

I appreciate everyone's input on this thread. However, I would like to redirect the discussion away from a debate on evolution versus creationism. Instead I would like everyone to consider the bigger battle that is raging. A battle where creationism in the schools; "Under God" in the Pledge; "In God We Trust" on our currency; and the numerous other religious symbols' intrusion into the state are but the means to an end. My gut feeling is that these issues are being used to fuel a hysteria to further the GOP agenda.

We live in a country where the wealth is being concentrated in a smaller number of the super-rich. The gap between rich and poor in this country is growing. What better way to take the focus away from the unfairness of "greed run wild" and turning it into a defense of the exagerated religious foundations of our country. For example, it is much easier for the GOP to sell their policies of lower taxes and protecting the wealthy if they can create a distraction. And that's what I think is going on. The soap boxes of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, and Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly are being used to whip the country into a hysteria. They create a common enemy- the "godless" attackers of America's religious symbols- to unite Christians in pushing their main agenda. You've got to trust politicians that are for God!

 

[Arikay]

I agree. Although I'm tenative when things start wandering too far into conspiracy theory territory, however it is pretty obvious some of these issues are being used to try and polarize people. Polarization is an effective way to get people to follow you and a common tactic used by many over the years. It is unfortunatly very easy to polarize the masses.
The gay marriage ban ammendment was a rather obvious attempt.

The rift between christian fundementalists and followers and everyone else does seem to be growing, and I would put it past any politician to try and use that to their advantage.

 

[Jetgirl]

I A battle where creationism in the schools; "Under God" in the Pledge; "In God We Trust" on our currency; and the numerous other religious symbols' intrusion into the state are but the means to an end. My gut feeling is that these issues are being used to fuel a hysteria to further the GOP agenda.

Oh I know a few GOP members who wouldn't care to farther the religious end of that agenda.

We live in a country where the wealth is being concentrated in a smaller number of the super-rich. The gap between rich and poor in this country is growing. What better way to take the focus away from the unfairness of "greed run wild" and turning it into a defense of the exagerated religious foundations of our country. For example, it is much easier for the GOP to sell their policies of lower taxes and protecting the wealthy if they can create a distraction. And that's what I think is going on. The soap boxes of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, and Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly are being used to whip the country into a hysteria. They create a common enemy- the "godless" attackers of America's religious symbols- to unite Christians in pushing their main agenda. You've got to trust politicians that are for God!

Given that I'm an atheist that listens to Bill O'Reilly occasionally, he really doesn't seem that far out there, and I can agree with him on a number or points per program.

I see this more as a two pronged occurance:

1. One very small slice of a demographic, say a part of a conservative movement, decide they are sick of an opposing demographics actions and do stuff that steps on toes.

2. A very small slice of the opposing demographic steps on their toes back.

And so on and so forth, untill we have people screaming on one side that the evil athiests are trying to outlaw Christmas (which only a very very few actually are) and the ACLU crowd screaming that conservative Christians are trying to turn the US into a theocracy (which only a very very few are).

Rhetorical backlash. It's annoying.

 

[Subordinationist]

I appreciate everyone's input on this thread. However, I would like to redirect the discussion away from a debate on evolution versus creationism. Instead I would like everyone to consider the bigger battle that is raging. A battle where creationism in the schools; "Under God" in the Pledge; "In God We Trust" on our currency; and the numerous other religious symbols' intrusion into the state are but the means to an end. My gut feeling is that these issues are being used to fuel a hysteria to further the GOP agenda.

We live in a country where the wealth is being concentrated in a smaller number of the super-rich. The gap between rich and poor in this country is growing. What better way to take the focus away from the unfairness of "greed run wild" and turning it into a defense of the exagerated religious foundations of our country. For example, it is much easier for the GOP to sell their policies of lower taxes and protecting the wealthy if they can create a distraction. And that's what I think is going on. The soap boxes of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, and Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly are being used to whip the country into a hysteria. They create a common enemy- the "godless" attackers of America's religious symbols- to unite Christians in pushing their main agenda. You've got to trust politicians that are for God!

The GOP, conservative talk show hosts, and famous Christians such as Pat Robertson and Jerry Fawell, are ment to throw the country into a hysteria. But, their goals are statist in nature; a statist hijacking of Christianity. Their goals are to force and coerice morality through laws and legislations and court rulings. This is not the Christian way. Jesus, the Apostles, and the Early Christians never forced morality or the Gospel, but through persuasion and example. The acts of American Christians, specifically those who are obsessed about America's now dead "Foundation of Christianity" and that this is a "Christian Nation" (if there was such a thing), are to be shown that the answer to changing lives and saving souls is not the government. The enemy is goddlessness (not the "goddless attackers"), but to be faught with the Armor of God: the Belt of Truth, the Breastplate of Righteousness, the Sandals of Peace, the Shield of Faith, the Helmet of Salvation, and the Sword of the Spirit (taken from Ephesians 6:10-18).

For example, it is much easier for the GOP to sell their policies of lower taxes and protecting the wealthy if they can create a distraction.

Although I detest both the Republican and Democratic parties, this is interesting. The top 1 percent of tax-payers (the wealthiest) pay 34% of all taxes, the top 5 percent pay 53%, the top 25 percent of income earners pay 83% of all taxes, and the top 50 percent pay 96% of all taxes. The bottom 50 percent of wage earners shoulder only 4% of the total tax burden. So next time you hear the politicians say "they're giving tax cuts to the rich!!!", think twice. The politicians just use this slogan as a ploy for you to vote for equally rich non-Republicans. The Elite pay for the government, own the government, and control the government.


.

 

[SquareC]

its always been done that way....this nation was founded on christian principles

The words "Under God" were added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 1950's in the McCarthy era. Not exactly "always"....

Evolution is science? Okay, I see there is no need to further this one.

It has been subject to rigorous testing using the Scientific Method, unlike Creationism, and has not failed to date.

I appreciate everyone's input on this thread. However, I would like to redirect the discussion away from a debate on evolution versus creationism. Instead I would like everyone to consider the bigger battle that is raging. A battle where creationism in the schools; "Under God" in the Pledge; "In God We Trust" on our currency; and the numerous other religious symbols' intrusion into the state are but the means to an end. My gut feeling is that these issues are being used to fuel a hysteria to further the GOP agenda.

We live in a country where the wealth is being concentrated in a smaller number of the super-rich. The gap between rich and poor in this country is growing. What better way to take the focus away from the unfairness of "greed run wild" and turning it into a defense of the exagerated religious foundations of our country. For example, it is much easier for the GOP to sell their policies of lower taxes and protecting the wealthy if they can create a distraction. And that's what I think is going on. The soap boxes of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, and Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly are being used to whip the country into a hysteria. They create a common enemy- the "godless" attackers of America's religious symbols- to unite Christians in pushing their main agenda. You've got to trust politicians that are for God!

Finally someone else says some of what I've been thinking of the situation! I was starting to think I was the only one! I think there is more to it that this, but I've seen too many signs of this to completely disagree.

I don't think that all Christians think Creationism should be taught in school. I know a large number of Christians believe in evolution. Some believe in one variety or another of Intelligent Design, which while it is not science and should not be taught in schools anymore than Creationism should, is at least a good way to reconcile religious beliefs and the reality of evolution.

If Creationism should be taught in a school, it belongs in a class on comparative religions or philosophy, not science. It cannot pass the scientific method, which evolution can and has done.

If you want your children taught Creationism, teach them. That is your right as a parent. If you want them taught Creationism to the exclusion of Evolution, enroll them in a private Christian school that teaches this way. That is also your right as a parent. Just don't expect to be able to dictate what is science and what isn't unless you are actually a scientist. And if you go the route of Creationist teachings to the exclusion of Evolutionary teachings, don't expect your child to go on to become a scientist. They won't have the education for it.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

Why do Christians want creationism taught in public schools?

Why do evolutionist want evolution taught in school?

 

[Randall McNally]

Why do evolutionist want evolution taught in school?

Because it's science. Something you may have understood had you read this entire thread before posting.

 

[placebo2]

... Why do evolutionist want evolution taught in school?

Briefly I would respond that the pursuit of knowledge through the use of all the sciences is how society progresses. If society restricted its source of knowledge to its holy books we'd still be wandering through the desert on foot, most of us would be dying before the age of 30, and we'd hover in fear every time there was an eclipse. (The whole world would be Afghanistan.) It's not the "wisdom" in the Bible that gives us our advances in medicine, our increased agricultural production, an enlightened government and legal system, the cars we drive, the houses we live in, and all of the other advancements that make our lives more livable. It's the pursuit of knowlege unhindered by fear and superstition.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

Because it's science. Something you may have understood had you read this entire thread before posting.

That is irrelivent to me, science is mearly the expilnation of the world we live in chemical, and theoretical basis, as far as I am concerned it is a huge ugly cell of theorys that not a single person has the infanate knowlage to truly conlude whether or not every aspect of the subject at hand has been accounted for, in their conclusion. It is in a whole uncomplete, and will be until we are aware of evey circumstance element, and involvment of every thing simotaniosly. On that note whats so wrong with teaching a child both creatonism, and evolution?

 

[jesusfreak3786]

Briefly I would respond that the pursuit of knowledge through the use of all the sciences is how society progresses. If society restricted its source of knowledge to its holy books we'd still be wandering through the desert on foot, most of us would be dying before the age of 30, and we'd hover in fear every time there was an eclipse. (The whole world would be Afghanistan.) It's not the "wisdom" in the Bible that gives us our advances in medicine, our increased agricultural production, an enlightened government and legal system, the cars we drive, the houses we live in, and all of the other advancements that make our lives more livable. It's the pursuit of knowlege unhindered by fear and superstition.

Look at the post above to see my opinion on this.

 

[placebo2]

... Although I detest both the Republican and Democratic parties, this is interesting. The top 1 percent of tax-payers (the wealthiest) pay 34% of all taxes, the top 5 percent pay 53%, the top 25 percent of income earners pay 83% of all taxes, and the top 50 percent pay 96% of all taxes. The bottom 50 percent of wage earners shoulder only 4% of the total tax burden. So next time you hear the politicians say "they're giving tax cuts to the rich!!!", think twice. The politicians just use this slogan as a ploy for you to vote for equally rich non-Republicans. The Elite pay for the government, own the government, and control the government.

Your stats aren't quite as impressive when you take into consideration that the top 1% of Americans own 47% of the country's wealth; that the top 10% percent of Americans own 83% of the country's wealth; and that the bottom 90% own but 17% of the country's wealth. These percentages have been increasing in the wealthiest American's favor for the past 20 years. When does it end? When is enough enough?

http://www.universityofthepoor.org/schools/stats/statspages/wealth.html

 

[placebo2]

That is irrelivent to me, science is mearly the expilnation of the world we live in chemical, and theoretical basis, ...

Do you think that penicillin is just a theory? Or that light bulb that lets you see at night? Or that television that entertains and informs you? Or that tractor, and pesticide, and insecticide that lets one man produce enough to feed one hundred men?

... On that note whats so wrong with teaching a child both creatonism, and evolution?

Do you want creationism taught alongside evolution in science class? Or do you want it taught in a comparative religion class?

Do you feel that the government and the schools exist to further your religious beliefs? Or, do you think that the government and the schools should exist to benefit all citizens? What prevents you from exposing your own children to your religious views? Can't you accomplish this without the government's assistance?

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

That is irrelivent to me...

If the notion of valid science being taught in science class is irrelevant to you, your opinion carries little weight in this matter.

On that note whats so wrong with teaching a child both creatonism, and evolution?

Creationism has been disproved and is thus not valid science and would amount to teaching a lie, and teaching creationism in public school would violate the first amendment of the U.S. constitution.

Creationism, however, is mentioned in science classes from my experience such as in an earth science class where creationist beliefs about the age of the earth and a global flood are mentioned as the thoughts of early geologists that disproved their own position.

 

[Arikay]

Jesusfreak: You do realize that the computer you are using was created using science, modern medicine was created using science (ever been to the doctor?) etc. Evolution has been used to develop product designs, and it has been used to help advance medicine. You may think it's irrelavant to you but you have most likely taken advantage of the benefits of science and evolution without even knowing it.

A large portion of this thread is about why creationism shouldn't be taught in school. It shouldn't be taught because its a false theory. The same reason spontaneous generation, or flat earth shouldn't be taught in school.

 

[Subordinationist]

Your stats aren't quite as impressive when you take into consideration that the top 1% of Americans own 47% of the country's wealth; that the top 10% percent of Americans own 83% of the country's wealth; and that the bottom 90% own but 17% of the country's wealth. These percentages have been increasing in the wealthiest American's favor for the past 20 years. When does it end? When is enough enough?

http://www.universityofthepoor.org/schools/stats/statspages/wealth.html

So your point is that the Elite both pay the great majority of taxes and own the great majority of wealth? Well duh. My point is that the Elite pay for the government (through taxes and lobbying), own the government (because they own the country's wealth), and control the government (logical conclusion). The poor both pay little or no taxes, and control little or none of the government. The state is, always has, and always will be, controled by the rich and the elite. All non-Republican slogans of "they're giving tax breaks to the wealthy!!!!" are ploys to get votes from the poor to the equally as rich and elitist non-Republicans.


.

 

[placebo2]

... The state is, always has, and always will be, controled by the rich and the elite. ...

I fear that you are correct. But, that doesn't mean that some of the abuses cannot be addressed.

 

[morningstar2651]

If I take a theology class, I expect to be taught the religious version (creationism).

If I take a biology class, I expect to be taught the scientific version (theory of evolution).

 

[Antoninus Verus]

I think the whole "Under God" deal is over-blown. I would like to be given the option to say it or even to stand up for the pledge. If I dont have to stand, then I dont. I dont give a damn whats on my money, as long as it pays for stuff.

The "In God We Trust" was put on there when everyboddy was Christian so no one cared. But its been on there for so long that people dont want to change it, theyre stuck in tradition

 

[Clarity]

The fact is that Evolution is still a theory with no hard concrete evidence to prove it and yet people are being brainwashed to believe that evolution is an accepted scietific truth which it clearly isn't. Darwins original book on the origin of the species does not conatin a single piece of evidence to back it up that is still accepted as evidence today in fact what darwin taught and what evolutionists think today are completely different.

If you ask someone who believes in evolution is it scientifically true they would usually say yes but if you ask them what is the scientific evidence then they are never able to provide any, most people blindly believe in evolution despite and do not know of any actual proof. There are still many scientists who do not believe in evolution and to explain away all the gaps scientists rely on random chance mutations which aren't terribly scientific.

Darwin himself had no formal education in geology or paleontology, when he wrote his theory which was based on exactly these things

"A proportion of favourable mutations of one in a thousand does not sound much but is generous, and a total of a million mutational steps sounds alot but is probably an understatement however let us take these figures as being reasonable estimates. With this proposition, but without any selection we would have to breed a million strains to get one containing two favourable mutations; up to a thousand to the millionth power to get one containing a million (1 with three million noughts after it)"
Julian Huxley evolution in action pg41

Evolution has been used to develop product designs, and it has been used to help advance medicine. You may think it's irrelavant to you but you have most likely taken advantage of the benefits of science and evolution without even knowing it.

what nonsense give me an example?
I think you are confusing science and evolution christians have nothing against most proper provable science just the theory of evolution.

 

[hernyaccent]

Hi there!



In America, Christianity has become "oppressed" by every other religion, denomination, and civil organization that could possibly muster enough news coverage to create a big squeak. Everyone gets rights now EXCEPT the Christian...

It's reverse discrimination.


Why mandate that Darwinism must be taught and creationism must be shelved?

Why hand out condoms and refuse to teach abstinance as an alternative?

Why remove Christian prayer from the schools yet allow muslims to pray?

Why should we remove all religious symbolisms at Christmas and replace them with Santa and the reindeer, after all, it's CHRIST-mas.


Christianity and Christian teachings deserve the same amount of time as everyone and everything else gets.


It's been shelved for a long time, and look what's happened to our society.


~serapha~

"Why mandate that Darwinism must be taught and creationism must be shelved?"
Even as a non-Christian I agree that it all should be taught in school. Not one or the other. I don't feel like that should be the only two options taught either.


"Why hand out condoms and refuse to teach abstinence as an alternative?"
Not all parents agree with abstinence and I think that would cause a conflict of interest. That is something perhaps you should address to your child personally. I went to a Christian school where abstinence was taught and condemns were not handed out. In my four years there was 4 pregnancy's and about 8 abortions ( in a Christian school with 38 students) .

"Why remove Christian prayer from the schools yet allow Muslims to pray? "
Christians wanted EVERYONE even non Christians to pray "their" pray while Muslims don't.

"Why should we remove all religious symbolisms at Christmas and replace them with Santa and the reindeer, after all, it's CHRIST-mas. "
Many recognize it as XMAS and have disassociated Christ with the holiday.

"It's been shelved for a long time, and look what's happened to our society. "
Where is it shelved?