Why do Christians have trouble with accepting Evolution?

[Hoghead1]

Again, Extraneous, you appear guilty of the same thing. You are going on what the fundamentalist Christian churches have to say about the Bible.

 

[Hoghead1]

And again, Extraneous, you appear to be contradicting yourself. You are going strictly on the dogmas of the fundamentalist Christian churches. It is irrational for you to assume that you are getting your information directly from Scripture or that your church has any better teachings than the church fathers. Probably, every one of your beliefs comes from the church fathers, Catholic as well as Protestant.

 

[Hoghead1]

And once again, Extradneous, you seem guilty of the same thing. You exalt the teachings of certain churches and church fathers as above folly, absolutely inerrant, and not to be questioned in any way. Hence, you feel you have the right to send out inappropriate, derogatory posts to condemn all other fellow Christians who do not think the way you do.

 

[SteveB28]

As I stated in a previous post, the position of this theory is ever changing...how convenient to drop aspects of the original theory which can easily be debunked... instead, just stick with examples of speciation, which is nothing special, and infer something greater by it... a very slick smoke and mirrors show.

How is this possible? By indoctrinating the young so they unquestioningly accept it.... in great numbers they hope to find legitimacy.... but in the end despair. Kinda reminds me of the third Reich...

... what was it Goebbels said...“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

The theory has NEVER included an explanation of how life arose. Someone has misinformed you, or you are concocting that.

 

[KWCrazy]

Probably the basic reason many Christians have trouble accepting evolution is that they assume God is immutable, does not change, and so neither does anything in the universe, most especially the species.

It's far simpler than that. God's word states that all that was made was created in six days, man being on day six. For evolution to be real, most of the foundational principles of the Bible including the introduction of death for man's sin have to be ignored or declared untrue. We have the Holy Spirit which reveals to us that God's word is true. You teach that the science of man supersedes the word of God. That's why we reject your false teaching.

 

[SteveB28]

As I stated in a previous post, the position of this theory is ever changing...how convenient to drop aspects of the original theory which can easily be debunked... instead, just stick with examples of speciation, which is nothing special, and infer something greater by it... a very slick smoke and mirrors show.

How is this possible? By indoctrinating the young so they unquestioningly accept it.... in great numbers they hope to find legitimacy.... but in the end despair. Kinda reminds me of the third Reich...

... what was it Goebbels said...“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

Please find an alternative explanation for the location of endogenous retroviral insertions across the primate species.

 

[Hoghead1]

No, Extraneous, your knowledge of the history of the Bible isn't quite up to speed. For one thing, which Bible are you talking about? The one with or without the Apocrypha. Early Protestant Bibles contained the Apocrypha, then dropped it. That's a major change right there. The Johannie Comma was added in by later Trinitarians. That, too, is a major change. The Ending of Mark was added much later. Luther believed that James was a "straw epistle" and had it placed in an appendix, separate from the rest of the Bible. Big change right there. Later on, it was changed back to where it was before. Another big change. Between the Dead Sea Scrolls and our Bible, the Book of Samuel got shorter and Goliath got taller.

 

[Extraneous]

The fact is, there has never been a time where Christians everywhere, except perhaps in the very beginning, believed in exactly the same way.

That's only because their eye is not single. The reason there is disagreement is because love for the world blinds us. What intent is there to interpret? Paul says to follow his example. He gave up all things for Christ. HE said our citizenship is in heaven. There are no political, scientific or religious divisions in the kingdom. There is one king, one kingdom, and one mind which is that of Christ alone, and that's all. Its about light verses darkness.



Matthew 6:22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

Revelation 4:6 Before the throne there was[e] a sea of glass, like crystal. And in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, were four living creatures full of eyes in front and in back.

2 Peter 2:14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.

Revelation 19:12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[a] a name written that no one knew except Himself.

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

 

[Extraneous]

Actually, Extraneous, I gave Paul's letters a great deal of study. I first thought of doing by doctorate in biblical studies, then switched to theology. I am an academic and I want to approach Scripture as a scholar. So I accept only what modern biblical studies has to say. That is my way of maintaining quality control in my belief system. In biblical studies, we have safeguards built in to ensure we don't project our a priori assumptions and beliefs back into the Bible. With laity, such as yourself, no such safeguards are in place. So it is all to easy for laity to read in their preconceived-of ideology and then think Scripture is backing them, when it point of fact it might not be. Every kook, fanatic, and terrorist in the book claimed he is being let by the Holy Spirit and has the Bible on his side. You are not providing an objective exegesis of Scripture. You are presenting Scripture as interpreted and understood by right-wing Christian fundamentalism, which is an essentially anti-intellectual approach. If that works for you, fine. But it does not even begin to work for your fellow Christians who have a strong intellectual bent. You also have a tendency to exploit this form as a platform upon which you can ridicule, condemn, denounce, can cast aspersion on the character of fellow Christian who disagree with you. Not only is that rude, but it is against the rules of teh forum. Your emails are full of hate , insults, and irrational thinking, way too close to the kind of neurotic self-talk I hear from clients. All I find in your posts is irrational intolerance and a conspicuous absence of compassionate Christian charity.

I dont use Email, so i have no idea what you're talking about. and you're less than edifying yourself, and honest. With you its about division, im only trying to promote unity by promoting one thing which is Christ alone. You are promoting evolution, and such things cause division. You think that we can argue and disagree al day, as long as we say it with a smile on our face, but that's not what paul teaches. However, you think that's just "mail", so i guess it means nothing to you.

 

[KWCrazy]

No, KW, you are definitely not presenting Scripture and just that alone.

One of us posts Scripture to support his arguments, the other claims that the Scriptures are full of errors. You claim to be a theologian and a Biblical scholar, and yet in all your research you cant seem to find anything Scriptural to support your claims. Therefore, your claims are false.

You yourself are interpreting Scripture according to certain human-made ideas and traditions.

Your statement is false. I was taught the earth was old... until I learned that nothing in the Scriptures support that.

I am an academician, I work out of the Christian intellectual tradition.

Paul addressed this in Romans 1.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

One should approach Scripture more open-minded. One should view Scripture through the lens provided by a healthy skepticism for tradition.

By tradition you mean skepticism for the Bible itself.

Maybe Scripture is an inerrant scientific witness, maybe not. Let's check this out. Given that modern science seriously challenges the biblical cosmology, it would appear that Scripture is not an inerrant scientific witness.

I see. So where the science of man disagrees with the Bible you proclaim the Bible to be false. Jesus never exercised a group of demons into a herd of pigs, the plagues of Egypt never happened, Jesus never walked on water, Balaam's donkey never spoke, the Exodus never happened, the Passover never happened, 5,000 were never fed with a few loaves and fishes, Lazarus was never raised from the dead, the resurrection never happened, Adam never existed, the flood never happened and the creation was nothing more than someone trying to take credit for something that occurred naturally.

I asked you once if there were any miracles in the Bible you believed. I never got an answer, so I guess that is the answer.

Also, you, your emails are insulting and disrespectful. For example, in this one, you tell me I'm not a theologian. Well, that's kinda of funny, you see, because I have a doctorate in theology, plus publications.

And yet, while telling everyone what a great Biblical scholar you are, you can't support anything you say with actual passages of Scripture. It's like saying you're an authority on Herman Melville but you can't quote a word of Moby Dick. It makes absolutely no sense. A Biblical Scholar should know the Bible. A theologian should know the teaching of the Lord by heart. You've been asked repeatedly to validate your claims, and yet you haven't posted anything remotely close to a Scriptural reference. Whether you have a doctorate in Biblical studies or whether you've never opened a Bible in your life, how could we tell from your posts?

 

[Extraneous]

One of us posts Scripture to support his arguments, the other claims that the Scriptures are full of errors. You claim to be a theologian and a Biblical scholar, and yet in all your research you cant seem to find anything Scriptural to support your claims. Therefore, your claims are false.

Your statement is false. I was taught the earth was old... until I learned that nothing in the Scriptures support that.

Paul addressed this in Romans 1.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

By tradition you mean skepticism for the Bible itself.

I see. So where the science of man disagrees with the Bible you proclaim the Bible to be false. Jesus never exercised a group of demons into a herd of pigs, the plagues of Egypt never happened, Jesus never walked on water, Balaam's donkey never spoke, the Exodus never happened, the Passover never happened, 5,000 were never fed with a few loaves and fishes, Lazarus was never raised from the dead, the resurrection never happened, Adam never existed, the flood never happened and the creation was nothing more than someone trying to take credit for something that occurred naturally.

I asked you once if there were any miracles in the Bible you believed. I never got an answer, so I guess that is the answer.

And yet, while telling everyone what a great Biblical scholar you are, you can't support anything you say with actual passages of Scripture. It's like saying you're an authority on Herman Melville but you can't quote a word of Moby Dick. It makes absolutely no sense. A Biblical Scholar should know the Bible. A theologian should know the teaching of the Lord by heart. You've been asked repeatedly to validate your claims, and yet you haven't posted anything remotely close to a Scriptural reference. Whether you have a doctorate in Biblical studies or whether you've never opened a Bible in your life, how could we tell from your posts?

Truth doesn't matter in the lukewarm world of relativism, the only thing that matters is how nice you talk. You can tell lies, cause division, provoke others, as long as you do it nicely. Its "snot" about truth.

 

[Extraneous]

rel·a·tiv·ism
ˈrelədəˌvizəm/
noun

1. the doctrine that knowledge, truth, and morality exist in relation to culture, society, or historical context, and are not absolute.

 

[Extraneous]

I need to break my dependence on this website. It bothers my conscience coming here. Maybe this will be my last post.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

No that's wrong. You don't see the folly in all this, probably because you dont understand what Paul commands us to do. You seem to understand ToE more than you do the commands of Christ that the apostles taught us. The command of Christ is simple. We make it complicated because we allow our love for the world to blind us to the truth. Anything worldly, such as ToE, that divides us, is not worth having. To love each other, to SERVE each other, thats what matters. We cant do that while we put divisions in front of each other. This is why Paul urges us so often, to put away carnal worldly things, and to instead to be united in the the knowledge of Christ ALONE. Politics, ToE, denominations...its all carnality.

Your post completely misses what I was talking about. It is a perfect example of how one can read words and not comprehend them. I was making a point, that one can believe in God and accept evolution, and therefore accepting evolution is not equal to being an atheist. I was NOT making a point about what is the right religion to practice or how to follow the commands of Christ or how we should or should not serve one another; that was not even my subject.

But that is what you blame me for talking about.

Its as if there is a button on you that gets pushed and out comes automatic defense of stance talk, with the same talking points, no matter what the conversation was about.

Have you considered coaching presidential candidates as to how to respond to questions from reporters? They seem to enjoy saying what they want without regard to the topic under suggestion and you would fit right in with them. Alas, on internet forums, we have a chance to reply and point out what you are doing.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Revealed to whom? By whom? We do not have common descent, we have a common Creator. His word tells us that the universe was created in six days with man being on the sixth. That is what the Bible reveals. Anything else is heresy.

True, the Jews do not believe that Christ was the Messiah.
However, one cannot reject the teachings of Christ and say they are devout followers. Christ affirmed for us that the Scriptures are the word of God.

We have a creation by means of evolution. His word tells us a day is as a thousand years. There is no need to reject the truth scientists have found in order to receive the one who is the TRUTH.

 

[AmericanChristian91]

Nice of you to be so dismissive of my life and what I've witnessed....

Im not being dismissive to your life. I am very where that the ToE for some Christians can feel threatening towards one faith that it should be dismissed as something evil. I was in those shoes once (and still exist in the "world" where evolution is frowned upon by fellow christians)

But I also know the ToE and it saying biologically we are related to Apes does not contradict being created by God in the mind of many Christians. That being true influences me from saying evolution itself is not the problem.

It is how one views it which can create problems.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

You shall not have any divisions, whether political, scientific, religious or otherwise.

You shall be holy (separate from the world)

YOu shall love each other as yourselves, and love each other as Christ loved you (share what you have, and be of one mind, be untied and equal in all things, LAY DOWN YOUR LIVES FOR EACH OTHER)

Rather, Paul argued we should accept one another in spite of our divisions.

Rom 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

Rom 14:10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.

Rom 14:13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this -- not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.

Rom 14:4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

(New American Standard translation)

 

[KWCrazy]

We have a creation by means of evolution.

According to whom? God said otherwise.

His word tells us a day is as a thousand years.

And a thousand years is like a day. This is a common distortion with evolution proponents. God Himself wrote the Ten Commandments on stone tablets, including Exodus 20:11. "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

What scientists have found is not truth, but a lie. It's a lie being repeated by the ungodly and the deceived alike. It's designed to cast doubts about the truthfulness of the Scriptures. It is a direct contrast to what is described in the Scriptures and it is 100% incompatible with the creation by the Lord.

 

[Hoghead1]

The issue here isn't about Scripture, KW; it's about how one interprets Scripture. That is the point you are missing. You are viewing Scripture as a fundamentalist. OK, fine. Nothing wrong with that. Fundamentalism is a respected dimension of Christianity. Only thing is, you don't appear to have much appreciation for the fact that Christianity represents a rich plurality of approaches. The re three basic approaches to authority, in Christendom. There is church-type Christianity, where the church is the ultimate authority. There is sect-type Christianity, where the Bible is ultimate authority. There is mystical-type Christianity, where personal, transcendental experiences are the ultimate authority. You would fall into the sect type. Which approach is the one right ant true one? The right approach is the one that works for you. If you feel being a fundamentalist helps bring you close to God, then that's the ticket for you. But then you should appreciate that each approach has both strengths and weaknesses. No one approach can work for everyone. So you should respect the fact that fellow Christians may go in very different directions from you. One God, many paths. Different strokes for different folks. But you don't seem to evidence any appreciation of that fact. Instead, you continually send out hate emails to berate, ridicule, and rundown Christians who don't think the way you do. In fact, you seem to pretty much claim that your church is the one and only true church. That's why I and others here have trouble with your posts.

 

[KWCrazy]

The issue here isn't about Scripture, KW; it's about how one interprets Scripture. /QUOTE]
You mean rejects?
Evolution is contrary to the Scriptures. You know it. Your inability to provide concurring Scripture proves it. It doesn't matter what any of us want to believe, what matters is what the Lord tells us through His word. It's pretty obvious that you reject that word. Were that not the case you would validate your case with a solid representation from the Scriptures. Regardless of where you place your faith, it's clearly not on the word of God. Perhaps you have your own interpretation of God that lives apart from the Bible. If that works for you, then fine. I and others see it as a rejection of the Scriptures and a teaching of heresy because those words are yours, not God's.

My point has been made. Your position is indefensible through Biblical teaching. Have a good evening.