Why do Christians hate Wicca(Witchcraft)?

[Havoc]

...nor does it remove it's veracity because you question it ...

Unproven is the default position. The Bible will remain unproven until you can verify it. At this point it has little or no veracity, in the matter of it's claim to be the Word of God. I didn't have to remove it.

 

[Outspoken]

Unproven is the default position. The Bible will remain unproven until you can verify it. At this point it has little or no veracity, in the matter of it's claim to be the Word of God. I didn't have to remove it.

Just as wiccan is right havoc As for the OP, I don't, I hate the sin of wiccan just as much as any other sin.

 

[Havoc]

Well since I'm not making any claims of truth I can't support, I don't have to worry about the fact that no religion has any proof of it's veracity, including yours.

 

[Outspoken]

Well since I'm not making any claims of truth I can't support, I don't have to worry about the fact that no religion has any proof of it's veracity, including yours.

okay, well then I'm not making any claims of truth I can't support either by being a christian

 

[Havoc]

That's good. Many Christians try to make the claim that their religion is absolute truth and all other religions are wrong. That is a rather extraordinary claim considering their complete inability to support that claim.

I'm glad you are different.

 

[Aaron11]

That's good. Many Christians try to make the claim that their religion is absolute truth and all other religions are wrong. That is a rather extraordinary claim considering their complete inability to support that claim.

I'm glad you are different.

Well, if a Christian believes that their beliefs are true, it requires them to believe that other beliefs that contradict theirs are not true.

Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. That's what I believe. If someone believes that there is another way to heaven, then I must think they are wrong.

 

[Maria Mante]

Now, games are a different matter al together, though they can have just as dire consequences. Our thought life is not so separate a thing as we are usually told it is. Jesus himself made some interesting statements about our 'thought life'. This too can open oneself up to the demonic realm. I actually had this happen, and it was very hard to remove that influence once it was there. The main problem was figuring out it WAS a problem in the first place.

What do you mean by thought life exactly? Are you saying that you can't have an imagination without Satan somehow coming into that?

 

[Maria Mante]

Well, if a Christian believes that their beliefs are true, it requires them to believe that other beliefs that contradict theirs are not true.

Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. That's what I believe. If someone believes that there is another way to heaven, then I must think they are wrong.

Not quite. Just because someone does not believe in Jesus Christ does not mean that they aren't going to Heaven. Their God and Goddess could really be Jesus Christ and not Satan. Just because they don't call them Christ does not mean it is evil.

 

[Havoc]

Well, if a Christian believes that their beliefs are true, it requires them to believe that other beliefs that contradict theirs are not true.

Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. That's what I believe. If someone believes that there is another way to heaven, then I must think they are wrong.

There is a vast, vast difference between thinking that what you believe is true, and claiming to have absolute truth.

Holding a belief is perfectly fine. Talking about your beliefs is perfectly fine. The moment, however, that you make the public claim that you are absolutely right and people who believe differently are absolutely wrong you place yourself in the precarious position of needing to provide substantiation for that claim. If you cannot substantiate such an extraordinary claim then the people you've accused of being absolutely wrong are justified in dismissing you and your claim as being spurious and ridiculous.

Now you can certainly believe what you wish. I could believe your house and possessions actually belong to me if I wished. If I make a public claim to that effect, however, I'd best be prepared to substantiate it.

 

[Aaron11]

Not quite. Just because someone does not believe in Jesus Christ does not mean that they aren't going to Heaven. Their God and Goddess could really be Jesus Christ and not Satan. Just because they don't call them Christ does not mean it is evil.

You tried to show my statement wrong by saying that you could be saved by a god or goddess if it really was Jesus, but they just didn't know it. I don't know where you get this idea. However, I will grant you this just for the sake of argument. Even if people could go through a god or goddess that really was Jesus to get to heaven, they still would be going through Jesus. So how does that contradict what I said?

Their God and Goddess could really be Jesus Christ and not Satan.

In response to the wording of this part of the post, not everything is either Satan or Christ. There are things, like pencils, that are neither.

Now, I would like an example of another god or goddess that is Jesus Christ besides Jesus Christ. Can you give me one?

Just because they don't call them Christ does not mean it is evil.

Not everything that isn't called Christ is evil, I agree. Again, pencils are not called Christ and are not evil because of it.

As much as I have missed your points, I haven't. I understand that you basically mean that there are other religions that teach similar principles to Christianity. You think that they are good. You try to believe that they are Christ in disguise. These same religions pronounce Christ to be less than the Son of God. How can both be true?

 

[Lizquests]

I am in the process of reading "The Origin of the Bible" by FF Bruce, JI Packer, Philip Comfort, and Carl FH henry. What I have read so far is giving some good evidence of the origin of the Bible and its authenticity. I would give some of the information on this, but it would probably be a really long post. If you are TRULY wanting to know about the authenticity, I would recommend reading this book.

 

[Smilin]

I know in some cases they do call upon the elements. What do the elements do? Nothing. Only God can decide what to do or not. Water can't make something happen, except maybe make your plants grow. LOL

This is really sad.

You could use a good dose of Native American Spirituality. Only by
experiencing would you know the answers to that question.

 

[Smilin]

Well right there, stating "and by Goddess", there is no Goddess. Just God himself. He should be all that we need in our life, instead of calling upon something dark and evil. Satan wants us to think that we are doing good by doing this, but really all it is doing is ruining our relationship with God.

These are my beliefs based on what I have read.

and some of us weren't created in you're God's image...
I walk the Red Road....my beliefs are based upon what
i have SEEN and EXPERIENCED...

oh..I like to read, but I don't believe everything I read.
Spirituality is experienced...not read.

 

[Smilin]

okay, well then I'm not making any claims of truth I can't support either by being a christian

Can we bookmark this and save it for later?

 

[Smilin]

Actually Lizquests its calling upon the elements in some cases. However, maybe they just think the spells are being answered by the configuration of elements; maybe its something darker. anyway, this is in no way condoning or condemning the pagan religion. it is a mere "what if" question. just speaking from past experiences.
God bless

Pagan religion..... as in singular?

Define the 'Pagan Religion' please...

 

[Havoc]

I am in the process of reading "The Origin of the Bible" by FF Bruce, JI Packer, Philip Comfort, and Carl FH henry. What I have read so far is giving some good evidence of the origin of the Bible and its authenticity. I would give some of the information on this, but it would probably be a really long post. If you are TRULY wanting to know about the authenticity, I would recommend reading this book.

There is a great difference between authenticity and veracity. Authenticity refers to the current version being an authentic translation of the original. Veracity refers to the contents being true. Comfort's book does a good job of showing the former, although many of his premises are debateable, but it does nothing to show the latter.

 

[Maria Mante]

Aaron11: Let me try to make myself more understandable. What I mean't was that there is only one God, but he has many different names. We all serve Him, but in different ways.

Does that make sense?

 

[Aaron11]

God may have some different names, but doesn't have different histories or natures. The god of Islam is not the God of heaven. I don't know what other gods you might be talking about, but if you can think of an example, I'd like to hear it.

 

[PistGurl]

I'm a witch, and I'd love to know what the heck it is that Christians dislike about us.

This is a question aimed at the Christians who DO hate Wiccan and witches....and is not a blow at Christianity itself
If magic is a sin, why do you love Jesus? Is there a difference between a miracle and a sin? Jesus walked on water, he turned water into wine etc, this is far more powerful than any wiccan would aim to be, a wiccan 'magic' is just using what we have to make the world we live in better...how is that a sin? Aren't you supposed to accept all other religions, at least that's what Jesus told you to do, or are you using your selective hearing now? If you say that you don't accept wicca AS a religion then that is unfair...when you see something you don't agree with, you can't just pretend it's not there, Wicca is very similar to Buddism, and many other eastern religions, will you say they are not real and that they sin? When Buddist monks meditate, that is the kind of magic we use, not flashes of lightning that strike farmers dead etc! In your religion all people are children of God and we have been given free will, as long as we follow the commandments of God...Wiccans are doing nothing against those commandment, and so you are dishonoring and turning your back on your brothers and sisters, simply for using what God has given them, and using their talents (which if we didnt use it, we would also be sinning!) how do we win in this battle?

 

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

Please allow me to recycle an old post & then add something new.

The Bible, in its original language (i.e. Hebrew) does refer to witches, necromancers, mediums, familiar spirits, etc. But, today's pagans hardly engage in the foul & loathsome rites (burning children to Molech, temple prostitution, etc.) of the ancient Canaanites, Moabites, etc. Also, in the Jewish view, the Torah's many pronouncements against witches, necromancers, etc. do not apply to non-Jews.

One of our Sages said that we must be very, very careful in rooting out sin and in touting virtue. We should root out sin in ourselves before looking to root it out in others & tout others' virtues before we tout our own.

While I don't know much about Wicca, I've met more than a few Wiccans on various interfaith boards & without any doubt, I have found them, as a group, to be the most tolerant, patient and unarrogant people I've met on these sites. No Wiccan has ever witnessed at me. No Wiccan has ever told me that I'm necessarily going to hell because I'm Jewish, i.e. not Wiccan. No Wiccan has ever patronized me or treated me as anything less than an equal. And some people dare to call them evil merely because their beliefs are different? As my people say, that's real chutzpah!

So much for the recycled old, now for the new. I check my hometown newspaper, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette every day (thank God for the internet!) & came across the following in today's edition:

Pagan inmate accuses jail officials of
violating rights

Tuesday, December 30, 2003

By Paula Reed Ward, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

JOHNSTOWN -- A jail inmate has filed a federal lawsuit against Bedford County's sheriff and deputy warden, claiming they are violating his right to religious freedom.

Charles Risenburg, who's been in jail since April, practices Wicca, a form of paganism.

Bedford County Sheriff Gordon Diehl says the Pennsylvania Department of Corrections doesn't recognize Wicca, and he doesn't either. That means he does not have to meet Risenburg's requests for special meals or to have certain items -- such as oils, wands, magic books or Tarot cards -- in his
cell.

Initially, when Risenburg first arrived there, he was permitted to have some of those items, Diehl said.

"This guy has a history with us over the last nine or 10 months," he said. "It was just never enough. He just kept demanding more and more."

Finally, when a new deputy warden took over, the Wiccan items, including the books, were taken from Risenburg, who is serving a 23 1/2-month sentence for a probation violation.

"He said if it has spells in it, I'm not allowed to have it," Risenburg wrote in his claim filed in U.S. District Court in Johnstown earlier this month. "This is a major part of my religion."

But Diehl said some of the books included images that depicted torture scenes.

"These rituals can be used to intimidate other inmates," he said. "You have to do away with as many interruptions to the routine as possible."

Another of Risenburg's claims is that the kitchen staff will not prepare vegetarian meals for him.

"When you've got 150 inmates, to fix a special meal, it takes a lot of extra effort," said Diehl, who's just beginning his second term as sheriff. "It's not just because of personal choice. We're not the Hilton. We're not short-order cooks."

The jail offers special meals based on health needs or religious reasons, but, Diehl said, Wicca is not recognized by the state Department of Corrections.

According to Sue McNaughton, corrections press secretary, the epartment's prisons do not accommodate Wicca or any groups practicing it.

Individuals can practice it privately, though, in their own cells. They may have books and literature about Wicca, provided the materials pass a committee review, McNaughton said.

Any other items associated with the religion, such as Tarot cards or oils or wands, are prohibited.

But the Bedford County jail is not under state control and is responsible for setting its own guidelines.

Kelly Muzyczka, the former president of the Three Rivers Pagan Initiative, said she understands the jail's need for security, but she questions that as being the true motive behind Diehl's actions. Instead, she wonders if it's based on intolerance.

No one is sure how many Wiccans there are, though Muzyczka said she has heard numbers ranging from 3 percent to 20 percent of the population. She does know there are several hundred people on pagan e-mail lists in the Pittsburgh area.

Wicca is the most commonly known of the pagan religions and traces its roots back to traditional European folk magic.

Wiccans don't believe in the devil, and they don't practice animal sacrifice, despite popular mainstream stereotypes, Muzyczka said.

Many of them keep their beliefs private for fear of repercussions.

"There are still people who would lose their jobs and their families if they found out," said Muzyczka, who labels herself a nondenominational pagan.

But, just as a good Christian doesn't have to have a Bible to practice religion, neither does a Wiccan need the tools Risenburg's requested, she said.

"A Wiccan doesn't have to have those books or oils or Tarot cards to be a good Wiccan," Muzyczka said. "They're not required by the faith."

But, she added, she'd want the same repercussions for a Christian who was proselytizing and preaching to other inmates inappropriately.

"I'd want to know the situation was that kind of equivalent before they took his books away," she said.

She would like jail officials to prove they removed Risenburg's religious items strictly because of security reasons.

Justifying his actions, Diehl said he's been told Risenburg threatened to cast spells on other inmates and their families in the past.

"We'll do everything we can to be fair to him, but we're not going to take any extra steps," the sheriff said. "If they do have a true belief, we'll do anything we can to accommodate."

Paula Reed Ward can be reached at pward@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1455.

Link: http://www.postgazette.com/localnews/20031230wiccan1230p5.asp

Whaddya think?

Be well!

ssv