Why do Christians disagree?

[Athée]

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Your folks are awesome and thanks for all the input. I will try my best to keep up and respond to everyone but I am doing this on my phone and am falling behind. Also work and parenting . ..

Thanks for your patience

 

[singpraise]

Do you think that a non believer like me could do some bible study and hermeneutics and gain a better understanding of the Bible without becoming a beliver ?


Do you believe that when you are hearing God speaking in your heart that what he is teaching you is true only for you or are His truths objective and true for everyone if they would only listen?

I would say at times BOTH of these things. Scriptures have deep meanings, sometimes even more than one meaning in the same verse. Sometimes God speaks to me through His Word when I just need an answer. He has never failed me. I don't care if other people don't agree with me. I believe what I believe and have my own personal reasons for believing as I do. I don't try to ever force my own beliefs on anyone else. That is a huge turnoff about a lot of Christians, according to my atheist friends. There is just no need for it. If you are secure in your own faith you can share you faith with others, if asked, but no need to shove it down anyone's throat.

For what it's worth, I think it's lovely that you want to learn more about God because of your wife's beliefs. That's awesome and says a lot about your marriage. My husband and I share differing beliefs and that's ok. We also share mutual love and respect for each other and understand where each other is coming from. Live and let live is a good motto.

 

[DawnStar]

Are to saying that even though many Christians claim that they are getting their interpretations of scripture from listening to the Holy Spirit , that they are deceiving themselves and are just parroting uncritically beliefs they have gotten elsewhere or error's of their own devising?

In a nutshell yes. That is what I am saying.

How would we tell the difference between someone who is doing what was described above and someone who is actually getting their perspective from the Holy Spirit? What method would we use to make this distinction?

That is an excellent question and my personal opinion is that people follow the group or person they personally feel is being "led by the spirit". Again this is why there are so many divisions within Christianity.

 

[crossnote]

Hi all,

I am an atheist, married to a wonderful Christian woman. In hopes of coming to belive what she believes I have started attending a bible study group with some cool guys from our church.

One question that keeps coming up in our discussions is this notion of the indwelling of the spirit as it pertains to interpreting the Bible.
I have often heard that when a believer reads the bible the truth of it will be revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. If that is the case why do so many Christians disagree about interpreting scripture?
The most common response in our group was that people supress/make errors even though the holy Spirit is teaching them the truth . If this were the case wouldn't we expect broad agreement on any particular issue as the supression and error would be idiosyncratic to any particular believer but the consensus would remain (same principle as poll the audience in Who Wants to be a Millionaire , all the people who know the right answer pick the same one, everyone who doesn't spreads their votes out over the possible choices leaving the truth clearly indicated.
In our group this ended with the guys just saying they don't really have a good answer for this problem, which while intellectually honest is not super helpful
Looking forward to your thoughts on this.

Note: This is not supposed to be a debate thread so as you respond I will try to simply ask questions to clarify rather than offer rebuttals. As such if you can think of a counter argument to your own position please include it and also include why you don't find that counter argument compelling

Thanks for your time and intellectual effort.

Peace

Summed up here...

For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. (1Co 13:12)

I believe a major reason is that even though we are born again, the flesh, the world and satan still have an influence...we are still with an unredeemed body.

 

[Athée]

Definitely. That is why there are so many different eschatological views.

So if we have different Christians asking the holy Spirit for truth and feeling like that truth has been given to them, but still disagreeing with each other how could we figure out who has the actual truth ?

 

[Athée]

For the most part, yes. But I don't think it's an issue restricted to Christianity. Have you ever asked for opinions about Robert E. Lee - the Confederate general? Or did you listen to the opinions of sportswriters regarding who would win the 2016 World Series? The opinions are just as varied on those topics.

This is really interesting. You first line seems to suggest that you think generally speaking Christians, being humans, are wrong about the things they say they know. Fell free to nuance that, I feel like I just set up a straw man of your position and don't want to tilt at windmills here

On the other items it seems to me that we are asking about either opinion or abut facts that we don't have access to. Certainly opinions are subjective accessed we would expect diversity. On uncertain historical items there is less disagreement as the facts we do have constrain the possibilities but again we would expect some diversity in the literature. Where I see the OP as being different is that Christians seem to be saying that the Holy Spirit will tell them the actial truth of the matter if they seek him.

 

[Athée]

Christians do NOT disagree. Christians believe and follow the teaching of Christ which hasn't changed since the first century. The reason it appears that Christians disagree is because many people identify as Christian despite not believing what Christ taught.

So you are saying that all TRUE Christians agree on all interpretations of scripture ?
I presume you would put yourself in the category of TRUE Christian and so I wonder...Do you think that if you gave me access to 10 people you identify as real Christians and I took each of them apart and interviewd them on a bunch of theological questions big and small, that they would all give me the exact same answers?

 

[DawnStar]

So if we have different Christians asking the holy Spirit for truth and feeling like that truth has been given to them, but still disagreeing with each other how could we figure out who has the actual truth ?

Even as a Christian I have asked myself the same question many times. Many Christians would accuse me of not being led by the spirit because of that admission. I just do not bother to worry about it and do not feel the least bit concerned what other Christians may feel about me or how I choose to believe.

 

[Athée]

That's a valid question. Thought we are his children, we are still fallen, and still fallible. He has given us his Word and his Spirit, yet we will still not understand. That is just one of the sad effects of the Fall. It has no bearing on the clarity or truthfulness of Scripture, though.

Are you saying that even though we try to understand the truth and the Holy Spirit tries to teach it to us that nevertheless humans, fallen as we are, are just not capable of understanding God''s truths?

 

[singpraise]

Even as a Christian I have asked myself the same question many times. Many Christians would accuse me of not being led by the spirit because of that admission. I just do not bother to worry about it and do not feel the least bit concerned what other Christians may feel about me or how I choose to believe.

I completely agree with you! It all boils down to each of us and God. One on one. It's a relationship with our Creator. People try to make it complicated or worry about what everyone else thinks but that is not the important part. Tend your own garden, I always say.

 

[Athée]

I'm not been funny mate but for someone who is just trying to please his wife you seem to know which leading questions to ask. lol I guess the difference is my truth is different .

I'm sorry if I unintentionally mislead you. I am not new to these ideas, I have spent a lot of time thinking about them and have not been convinced. But if a masters degree taught me anything, it is that worthwhile knowledge can take a long time to achieve. You achiever welcome to give up on trying to explain your position on this topic to me if you like but I am not giving up on this Jesus idea yet.
And once again I don't see how your comment takes a position on this topic.

 

[mnorian]

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[JCFantasy23]

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[JCFantasy23]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Bill Beaver]

Hi all,

I am an atheist, married to a wonderful Christian woman. In hopes of coming to belive what she believes I have started attending a bible study group with some cool guys from our church.

One question that keeps coming up in our discussions is this notion of the indwelling of the spirit as it pertains to interpreting the Bible.
I have often heard that when a believer reads the bible the truth of it will be revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. If that is the case why do so many Christians disagree about interpreting scripture?
The most common response in our group was that people supress/make errors even though the holy Spirit is teaching them the truth . If this were the case wouldn't we expect broad agreement on any particular issue as the supression and error would be idiosyncratic to any particular believer but the consensus would remain (same principle as poll the audience in Who Wants to be a Millionaire , all the people who know the right answer pick the same one, everyone who doesn't spreads their votes out over the possible choices leaving the truth clearly indicated.
In our group this ended with the guys just saying they don't really have a good answer for this problem, which while intellectually honest is not super helpful
Looking forward to your thoughts on this.

Note: This is not supposed to be a debate thread so as you respond I will try to simply ask questions to clarify rather than offer rebuttals. As such if you can think of a counter argument to your own position please include it and also include why you don't find that counter argument compelling

Thanks for your time and intellectual effort.

Peace

I applaud you for your efforts and pray that you are successful in your quest. For me, the answers are much simpler than many seem to believe. I believe there are 3 things to consider:

1. God gave man free will. This is where the disagreements start because free will gives us the ability to think, make decisions and come to different conclusions. Among other things.
2. God gave us the Ten Commandments. He saw the problems Moses was having with dissension, disbelief and lack of faith. He gave Moses Ten Commandments, 10 simple rules to live by. When all else fails, we have 10 very basic rules to help us make good decisions. After all, with free will, we have the ability to seek out many answers to one question. With the internet, you could probably find hundreds of answers to most questions. I would even go so far as to say you could keep searching until you find the answer you want.
3. When Jesus traveled with and taught the disciples they often times did not understand what Jesus meant. These were men who spent all of their time with Jesus and still had doubts and questions. That is until the ascension. But remember, the disciples were of different backgrounds and would go forth teaching in their own ways but with a common faith in Jesus Christ our Lord.

As you seek your answers consider that God never intended for us all to be the same or to think the same. We all have different talents that fit into His plan. I don't worry about not knowing his overall plan or when the end of times will arrive because I have faith that His plan is perfect and he has a place for me. In the meantime, I'll use the Ten Commandments to be my compass in life knowing that when the time comes I'll gain the knowledge the disciples gained at the ascension.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Hi all,

I am an atheist, married to a wonderful Christian woman. In hopes of coming to belive what she believes I have started attending a bible study group with some cool guys from our church.

One question that keeps coming up in our discussions is this notion of the indwelling of the spirit as it pertains to interpreting the Bible.
I have often heard that when a believer reads the bible the truth of it will be revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. If that is the case why do so many Christians disagree about interpreting scripture?
The most common response in our group was that people supress/make errors even though the holy Spirit is teaching them the truth . If this were the case wouldn't we expect broad agreement on any particular issue as the supression and error would be idiosyncratic to any particular believer but the consensus would remain (same principle as poll the audience in Who Wants to be a Millionaire , all the people who know the right answer pick the same one, everyone who doesn't spreads their votes out over the possible choices leaving the truth clearly indicated.
In our group this ended with the guys just saying they don't really have a good answer for this problem, which while intellectually honest is not super helpful
Looking forward to your thoughts on this.

Note: This is not supposed to be a debate thread so as you respond I will try to simply ask questions to clarify rather than offer rebuttals. As such if you can think of a counter argument to your own position please include it and also include why you don't find that counter argument compelling

Thanks for your time and intellectual effort.

Peace

I really don't know why there isn't unity. I don't know. Maybe, and it's a big maybe, not all people in the church circles even understand anything about what Jesus is trying to explain?

 

[Athée]

HI all. For those of you joining in now we are continuing the discussion on the new thread (this one was closed for awhile )
It is called
Why do Christians Disagree part 2 (clever name right! )
Look forward to seeing you over there!

OP out!

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

 

[Blade]

Athée... lets make this simple Jesus is real. No.. I mean REAL! Call on ALL the so called gods out there. Only ONE will every answer..JESUS!

The Holy Spirit. Its written that Jesus said.. the Father will give the holy Spirit to them that ask "Luke 11:13". I know some say its old or dead or not need it. But what I do is I take HIM at HIS word. If HE said it He will do it. How it happen to me. I use to go to this bible study with my mom. Now every now and then they would ask "do you want the holy spirit?" I would always say no. I was saved. One night I said..YES. No clue what I was saying yes to. So I sat in this chair and Lio and Jean (ran the study, grandparents.. prayed 4hours a day) read the verses about the Holy Spirit and then asked me again if I wanted it I said yes.. they just prayed then stopped and said "thats it you got it".

Huh? Nothing happen.. I got up went to sit down and BAM! HAHA it just came out. Yes tongues. See these two would always say "if we say anything that is not written never believe us". See they had faith that if GOD said and you asked..did what HE said.. HE would keep His word. So they did just what He said. I asked.. they prayed.. GOD HAD to do it! He cant lie. Now its up to you. Do you believe follow those that will say all kind of things ..or just take JESUS at His word.

Deeper.. HE IS GOD..right? Made all right? So if one believes Jesus came in the flesh died on the cross for the WORLDS sins was buried and rose the 3rd day and is the only way to the Father.. you are BORN again...you are HIS Child.. oh and HE IS YOUR FATHER/DADDY.. we cry Abba Father. Now if you were in Israel you would hear kids calling "abba" to there daddy. Yeah.. this GOD is now your Father..if you believe.. FAITH!

Deeper is.. just what can you BELIEVE? How much can you BELIEVE? What is WRITTEN? This is why Jesus told us to be like a child.. they believe ANYTHING it when we get older.. we KNOW the REAL TRUTH! Right? haha..

To know EVERYTHING man knows be it world or believer.. you know NOTHING about God..STILL! He is HUGE! Made EVERYTHING you see.. JUST FOR YOU! Really. And.. He want to show you so much more.. ask Him