Why do Christians disagree?

[Athée]

Hi all,

I am an atheist, married to a wonderful Christian woman. In hopes of coming to belive what she believes I have started attending a bible study group with some cool guys from our church.

One question that keeps coming up in our discussions is this notion of the indwelling of the spirit as it pertains to interpreting the Bible.
I have often heard that when a believer reads the bible the truth of it will be revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. If that is the case why do so many Christians disagree about interpreting scripture?
The most common response in our group was that people supress/make errors even though the holy Spirit is teaching them the truth . If this were the case wouldn't we expect broad agreement on any particular issue as the supression and error would be idiosyncratic to any particular believer but the consensus would remain (same principle as poll the audience in Who Wants to be a Millionaire , all the people who know the right answer pick the same one, everyone who doesn't spreads their votes out over the possible choices leaving the truth clearly indicated.
In our group this ended with the guys just saying they don't really have a good answer for this problem, which while intellectually honest is not super helpful
Looking forward to your thoughts on this.

Note: This is not supposed to be a debate thread so as you respond I will try to simply ask questions to clarify rather than offer rebuttals. As such if you can think of a counter argument to your own position please include it and also include why you don't find that counter argument compelling

Thanks for your time and intellectual effort.

Peace

 

[Resha Caner]

I'm not sure I'll be able to give you a satisfying answer, but I'll provide a starting point and you can ask questions. My initial reply would be that it's similar to asking why a broken clock doesn't tell the correct time. If we get enough broken clocks, won't the correct time emerge as obvious? No.

I don't know what church you're attending, but a Lutheran church wouldn't tell you that when the Holy Spirit dwells in people they suddenly become infallible.

[edit] P.S. I meant to add that I admire what you're doing. Very cool.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[rockytopva]

I believe in the seven churches as ages according to Revelation Chapters 1-3...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Peter
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Each one of these churches are different one from another.

 

[TaylorSexton]

Because Christians, contrary to popular belief, are fallible.

 

[singpraise]

Christians are just human like everyone else. I can only speak for myself on this topic. When I became a believer it was true for me that scriptures that previously didn't make a lot of sense to me suddenly became much clearer.

I don't feel it's any of my business to worry about someone else's interpretation of scriptures. My business is my own personal relationship with God. I think for myself. I don't buy into man-made doctrines. I pray. I read the Bible. I listen to God speaking to my heart. It's not complicated for me.

So, it was true for me that when I asked Jesus into my heart, the Holy Spirit really did clarify many verses of the Bible for me.

 

[DawnStar]

Hi all,
I have often heard that when a believer reads the bible the truth of it will be revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. If that is the case why do so many Christians disagree about interpreting scripture?

Many people are simply believing and espousing what they were taught. Also many people cannot separate between what they personally feel or believe and the leading of the spirit. Many Christians seem think that because they are a follower of Christ anything they think or feel about a given circumstance or issue is automatically the leading of the spirit. This is precisely the reason there are so many denominations within Christianity.

 

[JoeP222w]

Hi all,

I am an atheist, married to a wonderful Christian woman. In hopes of coming to belive what she believes I have started attending a bible study group with some cool guys from our church.

One question that keeps coming up in our discussions is this notion of the indwelling of the spirit as it pertains to interpreting the Bible.
I have often heard that when a believer reads the bible the truth of it will be revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. If that is the case why do so many Christians disagree about interpreting scripture?
The most common response in our group was that people supress/make errors even though the holy Spirit is teaching them the truth . If this were the case wouldn't we expect broad agreement on any particular issue as the supression and error would be idiosyncratic to any particular believer but the consensus would remain (same principle as poll the audience in Who Wants to be a Millionaire , all the people who know the right answer pick the same one, everyone who doesn't spreads their votes out over the possible choices leaving the truth clearly indicated.
In our group this ended with the guys just saying they don't really have a good answer for this problem, which while intellectually honest is not super helpful
Looking forward to your thoughts on this.

Note: This is not supposed to be a debate thread so as you respond I will try to simply ask questions to clarify rather than offer rebuttals. As such if you can think of a counter argument to your own position please include it and also include why you don't find that counter argument compelling

Thanks for your time and intellectual effort.

Peace

As implied, regenerate Christians still make errors and will until they die. Moreover, their are many who claim to be Christians, who simply are not (there are many false teachers and many false believers out there). There are also many who do not follow the proper interpretive method (exegesis) of scripture, by examining cultural/historical context, original language, grammatical interpretation.

The inerrancy of scripture is not based on the infallibility of man, thank God. It is based upon the inerrancy and infallibility of God.

But because there is not infallible unanimous agreement on scripture, that does not have any effect on the truth of scripture, or what the Holy Spirit reveals to the believer. And that also does not mean that each and every believer is the sole interpretive authority on scripture.

 

[Widlast]

Hi all,

I am an atheist, married to a wonderful Christian woman. In hopes of coming to belive what she believes I have started attending a bible study group with some cool guys from our church.

One question that keeps coming up in our discussions is this notion of the indwelling of the spirit as it pertains to interpreting the Bible.
I have often heard that when a believer reads the bible the truth of it will be revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. If that is the case why do so many Christians disagree about interpreting scripture?
The most common response in our group was that people supress/make errors even though the holy Spirit is teaching them the truth . If this were the case wouldn't we expect broad agreement on any particular issue as the supression and error would be idiosyncratic to any particular believer but the consensus would remain (same principle as poll the audience in Who Wants to be a Millionaire , all the people who know the right answer pick the same one, everyone who doesn't spreads their votes out over the possible choices leaving the truth clearly indicated.
In our group this ended with the guys just saying they don't really have a good answer for this problem, which while intellectually honest is not super helpful
Looking forward to your thoughts on this.

Note: This is not supposed to be a debate thread so as you respond I will try to simply ask questions to clarify rather than offer rebuttals. As such if you can think of a counter argument to your own position please include it and also include why you don't find that counter argument compelling

Thanks for your time and intellectual effort.

Peace

There are a few issues at hand:
1. the person has the Spirit indwelling, but does not listen to anything the Spirit says, often because the person is burdened by previously learned bias
2. the person is a superficial Christian, does not have the indwelling Spirit, and for all purposes is faking it/deluded
3. the person has the indwelling Spirit, but is too spiritually ignorant to understand anything the Spirit has to say

 

[Athée]

I'm not sure I'll be able to give you a satisfying answer, but I'll provide a starting point and you can ask questions. My initial reply would be that it's similar to asking why a broken clock doesn't tell the correct time. If we get enough broken clocks, won't the correct time emerge as obvious? No.

I don't know what church you're attending, but a Lutheran church wouldn't tell you that when the Holy Spirit dwells in people they suddenly become infallible.

[edit] P.S. I meant to add that I admire what you're doing. Very cool.

So a broken clock has no possibility of telling the truth except for one alignment of hour and second that occurs twice a day on a 12 hour clock. Do you think that humans are likewise incapable of being correct about doctrinal matters except in incredibly rare instances?

Thank's for your thought's, looking forward to exploring them.

 

[Athée]

People read Scripture with their own wishes, wrong teachings and not just let the verses speak.

Such as - Rev. 8:2 has "the seven angels". This means John has been already telling us about them before this verse was written by him.

Rev. 15:1 came way before John ever saw Rev. 8.

Rev. 15:1 - has - seven angels.
Rev. 8:2 has - the seven angels.

The day of Christ is shown clearly as to when it starts, yet many choose to ignore it.

The day of Christ - our gathering -shall not come till what?
that man of sin be revealed

Yet, many today tell others that Jesus Christ could return at any moment.

Some teach with great error that wicked men will not be tormented forever. Yet, look at the end of Isaiah 66.
The just are on the new earth and viewing the men that trangressed against God - as something abhorring.

This - abhorring is just what Daniel 12:2 also refers to - as everlasting contempt. Everlasting - abhor.
People - the wicked, those that did not repent of their sins and receive Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation - will have their worm dieth not.
They will be abhorred by the just.

Do you think that there are other Christians who would say that you are misunderstanding those verses and come to a different conclusion about eschatology?

 

[Athée]

I believe in the seven churches as ages according to Revelation Chapters 1-3...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Peter
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Each one of these churches are different one from another.

I appreciate the time you clearly put into posting this (I could learn from your formatting ) That said I am not sure how to respond be a use I am not sure how you are responding to the OP. Could you clarify for me. Thanks

 

[DawnStar]

Do you think that there are other Christians who would say that you are misunderstanding those verses and come to a different conclusion about eschatology?

Definitely. That is why there are so many different eschatological views.

 

[Athée]

Because Christians, contrary to popular belief, are fallible.

That makes sense to a point but I would have thought that if there is a truth and if truth is important, that a person of God, who has a role of leading us into truth, would want his children to know the truth. Do you think the truth is being communicated and people are not understanding it, or is it not being communicated in the first place?

 

[Resha Caner]

Do you think that humans are likewise incapable of being correct about doctrinal matters except in incredibly rare instances?

For the most part, yes. But I don't think it's an issue restricted to Christianity. Have you ever asked for opinions about Robert E. Lee - the Confederate general? Or did you listen to the opinions of sportswriters regarding who would win the 2016 World Series? The opinions are just as varied on those topics.

 

[samir]

Hi all,

I am an atheist, married to a wonderful Christian woman. In hopes of coming to belive what she believes I have started attending a bible study group with some cool guys from our church.

One question that keeps coming up in our discussions is this notion of the indwelling of the spirit as it pertains to interpreting the Bible.
I have often heard that when a believer reads the bible the truth of it will be revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. If that is the case why do so many Christians disagree about interpreting scripture?
The most common response in our group was that people supress/make errors even though the holy Spirit is teaching them the truth . If this were the case wouldn't we expect broad agreement on any particular issue as the supression and error would be idiosyncratic to any particular believer but the consensus would remain (same principle as poll the audience in Who Wants to be a Millionaire , all the people who know the right answer pick the same one, everyone who doesn't spreads their votes out over the possible choices leaving the truth clearly indicated.
In our group this ended with the guys just saying they don't really have a good answer for this problem, which while intellectually honest is not super helpful
Looking forward to your thoughts on this.

Note: This is not supposed to be a debate thread so as you respond I will try to simply ask questions to clarify rather than offer rebuttals. As such if you can think of a counter argument to your own position please include it and also include why you don't find that counter argument compelling

Thanks for your time and intellectual effort.

Peace

Christians do NOT disagree. Christians believe and follow the teaching of Christ which hasn't changed since the first century. The reason it appears that Christians disagree is because many people identify as Christian despite not believing what Christ taught.

The idea that each "believer" can privately self-interpret scripture on his own without the church is a very modern innovation not taught by Christ, the apostles, or believed by any of the early Christians at anytime during the first 1,000 years after Christ. It is a heretical teaching that originated not long ago and has only led to chaos and division because it appeals primarily to the arrogant and rebellious who would rather follow themselves and their own interpretations instead of submitting to the church. Those who are humble and faithful put their trust in Christ instead of relying on their own wisdom and interpretations.

 

[TaylorSexton]

That makes sense to a point but I would have thought that if there is a truth and if truth is important, that a person of God, who has a role of leading us into truth, would want his children to know the truth. Do you think the truth is being communicated and people are not understanding it, or is it not being communicated in the first place?

That's a valid question. Thought we are his children, we are still fallen, and still fallible. He has given us his Word and his Spirit, yet we will still not understand. That is just one of the sad effects of the Fall. It has no bearing on the clarity or truthfulness of Scripture, though.

 

[Athée]

Christians are just human like everyone else. I can only speak for myself on this topic. When I became a believer it was true for me that scriptures that previously didn't make a lot of sense to me suddenly became much clearer.

Do you think that a non believer like me could do some bible study and hermeneutics and gain a better understanding of the Bible without becoming a beliver ?

I don't feel it's any of my business to worry about someone else's interpretation of scriptures. My business is my own personal relationship with God. I think for myself. I don't buy into man-made doctrines. I pray. I read the Bible. I listen to God speaking to my heart. It's not complicated for me.

Do you believe that when you are hearing God speaking in your heart that what he is teaching you is true only for you or are His truths objective and true for everyone if they would only listen?

 

[Athée]

Many people are simply believing and espousing what they were taught. Also many people cannot separate between what they personally feel or believe and the leading of the spirit. Many Christians seem think that because they are a follower of Christ anything they think or feel about a given circumstance or issue is automatically the leading of the spirit. This is precisely the reason there are so many denominations within Christianity.

Are to saying that even though many Christians claim that they are getting their interpretations of scripture from listening to the Holy Spirit , that they are deceiving themselves and are just parroting uncritically beliefs they have gotten elsewhere or error's of their own devising?
How would we tell the difference between someone who is doing what was described above and someone who is actually getting their perspective from the Holy Spirit? What method would we use to make this distinction?

 

[Andrewofthetribe]

So I'm not sure how to respond to this. I don't see you taking a position on the question, unless I am missing it...?

Yes it's if your need is only that your wife wants you to look in, then I see no real commitment. I would not want you by my side in the battle for our souls. I would rather stand against Satan alone than with a wishywashy man who has no real interest.