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Why do Christians disagree? Part 2

Athée

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Athee,

I don't know which country you live in. I'm an Aussie. I cannot imagine a comprehensive history of Australia that would not cause a good number of people to have the heebie jeebies over specifics. They may have special interests and know details not available to the person(s) who wrote the history.

In the Bible, we have detailed history of the Israelites that included some controversial issues (e.g. creation out of nothing, worldwide flood, slaughter of inhabitants of Sodom & Gomorrah, miracles, etc). Expect disagreement when significant events take place. We are sinful human beings doing the interpretation. When we become Christian those sinful urges are controlled but not eliminated.

Then we come to the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. Those are humongous events with eternal consequences. Expect disagreements from non-believers and believers alike.

With the epistles of the NT, a lack of knowledge or in-depth knowledge of the original languages and theological issues can lead to controversy.

If you want to hear contemporary controversy, take a listen to a call-in talk-back radio show as I do regularly. Some people can almost get to fist-a-cuffs on the air.

Understanding foreign languages and translating correctly into English comes with challenges. I read and have taught NT Greek.

Just because people fight over theology should give you good reason to know why that is so. Look at the history of the Arminian-Calvinist controversy, gifts of the Spirit, creationism, Trinitarianism, etc debates.

This is the truth of the matter: 'As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another' (Proverbs 27:17 NIV). Are you ready to be sharpened? You already have asked some healthy and controversial questions. I'll enjoy interacting with you as time permits. You'll have to watch my Aussie accent and spelling.

Oz
It seems to me that the most significant and important events should be the most well attested, that the true things of God would be clearly laid out in the same way that I clearly explain the things I find important to my own children. Do you see it differently?
Why do you think God would give the holy Spirit to lead believers into truth (2philoVoid perspective notwithstanding) and then let them fight and divide when he could easily clear it up? Why do you think he used languages that would be inaccessible to the common person 2000 years later?
Thanks for a great post!

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Athée

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That's not NT thinking. This is how Acts 17:11 (NIV) puts it: 'Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true'.

When Paul was in Berea he made it clear that the people who were to examine the content of his teaching (surely core beliefs come in here) were ordinary listeners (Berean Jews) whose responsibility it was to compare what Paul preached with the OT Scriptures (they were the only Scriptures available in the 1st century).

Today, it is the responsibility of those who sit in the pews, listen to radio, TV and Internet messages, and compare what the preacher teaches with the Scriptures. That's my biblical responsibility.

It is not left up to some church hierarchy to do that but to ordinary, everyday Christians.

Oz
So when these everyday Christians don't have the education to access the old testament, why does God allow them to make errors and spread dissent. Is the holy Spirit not able to overcome their poor education and human error?

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Athée

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As an ex-atheist, I may be particularly well suited to answer your question.

The Spirit is not something that can be dealt with by intellect. Jesus told His hearers that the wind (same word as "spirit") - "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." [John 3:8 KJV]

What does that mean? It means that we are carried and instructed by this wind/spirit, but we cannot really know HOW it operates in us, but once it begins to operate, we know it is there.

This is how it worked for me - my father had been praying for me for years, but I did not know it until the day I was baptized. When he did some personal repenting, things began to happen in my life. These things eventually led me to become a Christian, though I cannot explain exactly how. I can say that certain attitudes and ways of thinking fell away from me. One notable thing was music - I had been a big fan of hard rock and even heavy metal. A few months after I became a Christian, I found that the music I used to love I no longer loved. After a while, I purged my LP collection with an awl, even some collector's items. More importantly, the Bible began to make sense, when before, it made no sense to me, though I was literate and well-read. I really would not care to be my pre-Christian self again.
Thanks for sharing your story with me/us :)
When I read your post I wonder how you personally would go about figuring out who is actually hearing the spirit in the way you describe?
I have other questions too but I don't want to derail my own thread!

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Athée

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My experience is that there are things more easy to determine, because they are stated in plain words and/or various other scriptures fit with them.

One example, I personally understand, is that the Bible clearly says we become saved by trusting in Jesus for all our Heavenly Father desires with us > Ephesians 1:12. But there are people who insist that one must say a prayer or get baptized and/or other things. So, then is when you can have a lot of arguing and accusing, back and forth. But if we consider all it means to trust, this goes way beyond just copy-catting what others tell people to say and do.

Well, that can be like how, if a country attacks you, the enemy is part of your war plan but the enemy is not a welcome part of the strategy. And the main purpose of the plan is to continue your nation's culture of benefit. The main part of the plan is not only to defeat the enemy, and certainly not only to spend a lot of time only or mainly on beliefs about the war plan and the enemy.

Like this, yes sin is in the plan, but not the main or the welcome part of it. And Jesus is our Husband and we are being conformed to the image of Jesus > Romans 8:29 < this is the main plan with its main love purpose. All else is secondary, I would say.

First, there are people who are not with God, at all. They can pass themselves off as being Christians so that people say, oh look at how those mixed-up and fighting Christians are. Ones like this have conducted even religious wars and various other hurtful things. But if they have been leaders in certain groups and denominations, ones can be in denial about this, and keep on promoting their wrong ideas.

I would consider that God is not allowing such people and their activities, meaning it is not His will and they do not have His approval. But His priority is to correct whoever are His children; so in case a wrong person is not a child of God, that person could go all one's life the wrong way, if one does not seek God for Himself and trust in Jesus and submit to our Father's correction bringing His love's perfection > 1 John 4:17.

But, even among those who are God's children, we can be wrong because of our own immaturity and ways we have not given up our selfish motives. In our selfish stuff, we can see things the wrong way and so have wrong ideas. I suppose you have noticed how a human can have a way he or she wants things to be, and so he or she believes what fits with that. We need first, then, how God corrects us in our character so we can better understand Him and His word.

So, then . . . if a Christian is still not mature, the priority is to correct and mature the person, not only get his or her ideas straightened out. So . . . because of priority, God may allow certain ideas to continue.

Also, if wrong people keep pushing their wrong ideas, this can help really Christian people to spot who the false people are > 1 Corinthians 11:19. But we can also tell by how wrong people can be dictatorial and controlling, which is against how Peter says true exemplary leaders are to relate >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

This is, of course, in God's word; so any of us can feed on these things and then use them to help us know who and what to trust. As we get to know the real deal, it becomes more and more easy to spot what is counterfeit . . . like how Secret Service trainees first are told to examine a real dollar bill, instead of studying the thousands or millions of fakes they have in custody. You can tell, by where someone calls your attention, how much he or she emphasizes what is most important, or is decoying you elsewhere. If you get familiar with the Bible, you can see what needs the main attention. How to become in our character is the first thing Jesus dealt with, in His Sermon on the Mount. But you can see how ones can, right away, get away and be arguing and confused . . . because of their decoy questions with evasion of simply seeking God to cure our nature in His love (1 John 4:17, Ephesians 4:2, Ephesians 4:31-5:2) and then personally guide us in His peace (Colossians 3:15).

You say, "feel" close to God. I offer, that if a person is "one spirit with Him" (1 Corinthians 6:17), one is more and more experiencing how God is so absolutely beautifully wonderful in Heaven-quality love which is pure and pleasant with "the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit" (1 Peter 3:4). This will cure our nature and personality. So, yes we will feel this, but because it has become our new reality in us. And this gentle and quiet and unconceited and unegotistical love has almighty power to make us immune to fear and all its personality torments >

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

Yes, you will feel if fear and its torments can't get the better of you. But you feel this because this is a reality, in God's love. And so, God's children who are discovering this love meaning of His word will show and tell this :) Meanwhile, others might call themselves Christians, but they will stay busy with arguing and promoting their ideas and practices and trying to figure out what certain Bible passages mean - - where the Bible does not say what they mean. But, instead, we first need to seek our Heavenly Father to correct and cure our nature > Hebrews 12:4-11; then we are in His light so we can see better > Philippians 1:9.

We see in life how beliefs can be effected by if we love or if we hate. For one example, if you love a certain black person you might know personally, your love will have you believing things very different from those of someone else who hates that exact same black person. Plus, our motives can greatly effect how we are ready to understand God's word. The Bible is not exactly friendly with the motives of a number of people.

If I don't understand something, there can be different reasons for this. It can be because I need to mature more so I am ready to handle it > Hebrews 5:13-14. Also, if I try to take a short-cut to only learn ideas, without getting personal correction which God knows I need, then I can get in problems. Also, if I go to wrong source people, I can get ideas which will not fit with the right interpretations of the Bible > there are things you can get straight about, just by reading one Bible verse, but ones can take that question and write books about it . . . selling a lot of books, plus getting a lot of speaking engagements, when one verse speaking for itself might tell you more than all that person's books and lectures combined!

A Bible passage can be difficult because of how I have set myself up with things to keep me from understanding something correctly.

So, we might need to table something while we get correction we need. Also, it simply may not be God's will for us to know something, plus the questions we are asking could be misleading our attention, and we need to get or stay on track where our attention belongs.

For an example of how one could ask misleading questions > if you buy a car and ask how fast it can drive, this could get you in trouble if you try to find out. Or . . . to use a silly example > if you get to arguing with your wife about how to find and use the hatchback of a car that does not even have one > that argument could go on for a while, while you do not discover all that really is in the car. Likewise, there are things which are misleading and sidetracking questions, and therefore not what God might be interested in answering.

But in case we are looking for a right thing, but don't get it right away . . . we might table it, but by praying for how and when God pleases to teach us. And feed on all He does have for us now.
Man you need to include a tl:dr section on that one!

Just kidding, thank you for the thoughtful response. Since I do this all on my phone I had to take notes as I read just to be sure I would ask all the questions I have so here goes...
It seems your example of an easy issue, by your own admission, is fraught with disagreement. Is salvation and how it happens a trivial matter?

You mentioned that false Christians could be part of sowing confusion. How do you tell who the true and false ones are?

The post says god corrects only his children, in that case why did Paul even bother with the gentiles, they were not gods children at that time and he seemed to be correcting them and bringing them to God.

If being a mature believer means you have a netter sense of the truth why do we have elders in all the different denominations who disagree with each other? Moreover if length of time that ideas are considered leads to truth shouldn't the Catholics or the Orthodox be considered the most mature and therfore true?

When you say people who are wrong can be identified by the way they push bad ideas,wouldn't they say the same thing of you, that you are pushing the bad ideas (where they disagree with you at least)? How do we tell who is correct?

You also said that false believers are dictatorial or controlling, are those traits that can only be exhibited by non-Christian or can a true Christian also behave in those ways sometime?

The post said true Christians fear not and act in love, do you think this is not possible for a non-believer?

When you say you might need to table something for later how would you distinguish between finally being mature enough to understand an idea and the process of eliminating cognitive dissonance by forcing an idea to fit within your preconceived framework?

Thanks again


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Athée

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It could be. I think I've heard Reformed preachers give some kind of explanation to that effect. But honestly, the issue of sin's place in the world isn't one that I've come to see as normative for humanity. Maybe I'm wrong ... :) Maybe the Calvinists are right, in which case , my gut response is..."ewww, God, really?!" But, I'm open to suggestions ...

That's a good question. It's also one that seems to take us into the realm of the ol' Argument from Evil, and being as such, if an answer is provided, it usually never settles the nerves of the one asking, at least not in a satisfactory manner.

But, would you care for a two-penny answer? Ok, my two-penny answer is that God values human growth in body, mind, spirit, and community, and at the same time, social culpability, both individual and communal. And here's the clincher, and it's something no one will like hearing: God also thinks the presence of social difficulty provides a useful, spiritual, filtering process. But, again, that is my two-penny answer after gleaning the New Testament and thinking long, even if not demonstrably hard, on this problem.

...yep, it's me, as phantasmagorical as ever! :cool:

Peace,
2PhiloVoid
Do you find the idea of God desiring some level of human suffering and the thought that sin is part of the plan from the beginning to put too much strain on the idea of a loving/just/holy etc god?
Is the current level of suffering intended by God?

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Athée

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many don't test the spirits
-
there are many tests
-reason
-logic
-common sense
-time
-
the test of time is very important
-what has survived the test of time?
I wonder if reasonable Christians could disagree or does reason always lead believes to the same conclusions.
Logic is a tough one. Do you mean formal logic or is this an extension of common sense in your view?
Is common sense truly common across all the global community of Christians or do you think social norms and culture shape what is considered common sense to some extent?

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Athée

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many don't test the spirits
-
there are many tests
-reason
-logic
-common sense
-time
-
the test of time is very important
-what has survived the test of time?
Oops forgot the test of time. If length of time is important the the eastern religions are correct, or maybe the Muslims..?

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Athée

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a. I hesitate to speak for God. If I have reason to trust him (as I do), then I'm content to say I can't fully explain all his purposes. That being said...

b. God chose to make real, individual human persons. Being individuals with free will includes certain consequences, such as disagreement---and sin. When we are saved, God doesn't immediately wholly renovate either our hearts or our minds into something 100% different and unrecognizable, because he is saving us, not merely treating us as a husk to be filled with some other, wholly different person. However, leaving us with our mental limitations, presuppositions, etc. means that we'll disagree. Not because disagreement is the goal, but because it is a side effect of something which is desirable, namely real, individual human persons.

c. But I can even see some benefit from the disagreement, because it encourages all Christians to turn back to the Bible in prayer to seek to understand it. If we all perfectly understood Christian doctrine, don't you think we might be less diligent to reading our Bibles and listening to godly preaching? And, in this life, a state of constantly seeking to know God better through his Word is probably safer than just complacently knowing everything right away.


I wouldn't expect this, no. People die and new, baby Christians are saved and need to start their own process of learning and growing. And new, bad ideas develop (partially through the influence of Satan, undermining the church), and it takes time to compare them to Scripture and see their error. If you look at the history of the church, you do see a gradual process of agreement on many key doctrines. A good example was the debate over the best way to describe the nature of Jesus and his relation to God the Father and the Holy Spirit in the first few centuries. By the 4th century or so, that question was largely settled through the process you described above---it's just that new, different challenges arose and created new disagreements, as one would expect.
B) If you belive in Satan, and your post suggests you do, then you have an example of a being who knows the truth of the matter, knows the doctrine completely but still freely chose not to obey and worship. Does knowledge really negate free will?
C) I don't see the benifit to be honest. If all believers knew what was true they could spend their time in worship and service as opposed to arguing with each other and confusing non-believers. Doesn't that seem better to you?
D) If you belive that the church began as one body the fact that you now have thousands of divisions seems to suggest that the trajectory of reconciliation that you suggested might not be so clear. Do you see it differently?

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Athée

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God often says that He chooses those who the world sees as unfit, and uses them for His glory.

Real connection and unity with God is not academic. Theology is academic and/or scholarly study and discovery of truths about faith systems. For God, you do not have to be degreed to be close to Him. In fact, He prefers the attitude and approach of a child much more than the supposed scholarship of an adult.

Fellowship is much more important to God than theology. Fellowship working with faith, obedience, and love for God creates the enrichment of the spirit; theology at best satisfies the person.
That's a fair response, what if we replaced theology with the truth of the things of God, does approaching these like a child, without any filters, believing whatever you understand from the text uncritically, really make for the best understanding? Do you think God cares if his children understand the truths he is trying to communicate in the bible?

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Monk Brendan

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I like the idea of bibliomancy, I will use that in future discussions :) Congratulations on your superpower!

Don't! It is superstition. You can very easily be mislead by using it.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Do you find the idea of God desiring some level of human suffering and the thought that sin is part of the plan from the beginning to put too much strain on the idea of a loving/just/holy etc god?
Is the current level of suffering intended by God?
Well, Socrates, are we still trying to answer the question of the OP, or instead move down some other tangent now? :rolleyes: Are we interlocuting under the intentions of Street Epistemology here, OR are we trying to actually get at the purpose of why God allows Christians to "whap each other upside the head!?"

I'm more than happy to try to answer questions and be helpful, but at the same time I'm just wondering: what are we trying to specifically "explore" here, Athée. :cool:

Peace,
2PhiloVod
 
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David Vogel

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B) If you belive in Satan, and your post suggests you do, then you have an example of a being who knows the truth of the matter, knows the doctrine completely but still freely chose not to obey and worship. Does knowledge really negate free will?
Sorry for confusing the matter by bringing up free will. I meant it as just part of the "whole person" which God loves and desires to save. For whatever reason (see my point a earlier), God chooses not to dump a "knowledge implant" into us at the moment of conversion which would give us perfect clarity about all religious truth. I think his apparent preference for individual persons helps to explain why he handles things as he does.

C) I don't see the benifit to be honest. If all believers knew what was true they could spend their time in worship and service as opposed to arguing with each other and confusing non-believers. Doesn't that seem better to you?
No, actually. What you described is basically heaven, but on earth, with fallen minds and fallen natures, I am quite certain that unification in knowledge would not produce the unity you envision. On this earth, our greatest safeguard is abiding in the Word of God, and there are few better ways to remind us of its importance than to use it to gradually feed and teach us as we dig into it. But, remember, I'm just speculating. God doesn't tell us why he doesn't immediately implant knowledge into us when we're saved, so we can only guess.

D) If you belive that the church began as one body the fact that you now have thousands of divisions seems to suggest that the trajectory of reconciliation that you suggested might not be so clear. Do you see it differently?
I didn't intend to suggest a "clear" trajectory of reconciliation. I do think you'll find that a body of Christians who prayerfully tackle one particular question over a few generations usually reach greater unity on it. The morality of slavery would be another good example. But, as I said in my earlier post, there are also opposing forces which tend toward less unity and the sort of denominational splintering we see historically.
 
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Athée

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Well, Socrates, are we still trying to answer the question of the OP, or instead move down some other tangent now? :rolleyes: Are we interlocuting under the intentions of Street Epistemology here, OR are we trying to actually get at the purpose of why God allows Christians to "whap each other upside the head!?"

I'm more than happy to try to answer questions and be helpful, but at the same time I'm just wondering: what are we trying to specifically "explore" here, Athée. :cool:

Peace,
2PhiloVod
Too funny! I was thinking the same thing before I replied, wondering if I should follow up on the question or just let it slide and try to stay true to the thread topic. I have been trying to stay on course but I also enjoy asking questions :) And yes street epistemology is cool, there are some good channels starting up that are not so focused on religious beliefs, investigating the epistemology of non theists. Good stuff!

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Aryeh

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That's a fair response, what if we replaced theology with the truth of the things of God, does approaching these like a child, without any filters, believing whatever you understand from the text uncritically, really make for the best understanding? Do you think God cares if his children understand the truths he is trying to communicate in the bible?

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Yes.

And, yes.

Humans put boundaries on everything. Children dont. They are taught boundaries. This includes intellectual, spiritual and philosophical boundaries.

But, God has no boundaries. His simplicity demands an open, uncritical (to a point,) unfiltered and innocently seeking heart/mind. Otherwise, He becomes overwhelmingly paradoxical, and complicated by the hedges and boundaries we put on a creation for which we didn't make the rules.

Even Christ talks about the importance of wing child-like when approaching God.

I would say God cares more that the children know Him, and build their foundation in Him from an early age. The older someone gets, the harder it becomes for someone to understand and accept God. Life just gets in the way and replaces the importance of spiritual discernment with carnal survival.
 
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Monk Brendan

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I said no such a thing; what makes you think that I did?

You said:
If you were in a Catholic study group, you wouldn't be discussing "when a believer reads the bible the truth of it will be revealed to them by the Holy Spirit" you would be discussing how the truth of the bible is revealed by the hierarchy of the church.

That is a very biased statement. Saying that implies Catholics can't or won't listen to the Holy Spirit. You are also implying that Catholics are mindless drones. They are not. Each and every Catholic has a mind, will, and emotions, and Jesus died for each and every one of us.

Would you like to be compared to a mindless drone? Would you like it if I said about you and your church that they only listen to Scripture through the filter of their denomination and their pastor? Not that I'm saying that about you. Heaven forbid I should say anything nasty about you when I don't even know you.

I am just asking that you keep comparisons that might include Catholics out of these fora.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Too funny! I was thinking the same thing before I replied, wondering if I should follow up on the question or just let it slide and try to stay true to the thread topic. I have been trying to stay on course but I also enjoy asking questions :) And yes street epistemology is cool, there are some good channels starting up that are not so focused on religious beliefs, investigating the epistemology of non theists. Good stuff!

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Yes, epistemology is VERY cool! Which is, as you may already have surmised about me, why I keep peppering it in my posts here and there. I'm for the Epistemological exploration of ALL points of view, which is the usual working parameter of epistemologists. The problem with "Street Epistemology" is that it is typically stuck in the Boghossian rut of Foundationalism, assessing just about everything by way of the structure of this particular epistemic framework. But, obviously in saying this, I digress somewhat from the OP.

So, back to your questions, Socrates!

"Do you find the idea of God desiring some level of human suffering and the thought that sin is part of the plan from the beginning to put too much strain on the idea of a loving/just/holy etc god?
The first part of it, that of suffering on behalf of Christ, I kind of expect since it keeps coming up as an aspect of the Christian Theology and Doctrine found in the New Testament.

The second part, that of sin being subscribed to as a part of God's plan, is something that I haven't settled on yet, and the little jury that sits in my brain is still "out" on that one. I suppose that if i can see sin not only as a moral fault of humanity, but also as a (partly?) unintentional state of mind because of the usual epistemological limitations of the human brain, then in some sense, I might be able to see God as "sliding" the premise of sin into the list of "necessaries" to carry on His plan for humanity. But, again, that is still under consideration ...

Is the current level of suffering intended by God?
I hate to say this, but I think there is evidence in the Bible, particularly the New Testament, which indicates that God does intend for some level of suffering to be experienced by, and at times even between, those who claim to be Christians in the world, as harsh and undemocratic as that may sound. :eek: :mad: o_O :oops: :(

Peace,
2PhiloVoid
 
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Monk Brendan

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HOLD EVERYTHING! Athee has started with the wrong question, and everybody is trying to give him the right answer when what we need to be telling him what the right question is.

Athee, you claim to be an atheist. If that is true, why all of the focus on the Holy Spirit? You cannot receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit while you don't believe in God! First, you have to seek Him. If you earnestly seek Him you will find Him. Then you need to begin cooperating with Him. To do that, all you need to do is to humble yourself and pray. Tell Him that you want to cooperate Him. Most Protestants will tell you that you must accept Jesus into your heart. I don't care what they say, I am only interested in you learning to love God.

Once you have done that, THEN you can worry about how the Holy Spirit works in a believer's life.
 
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John Hyperspace

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You said:


That is a very biased statement. Saying that implies Catholics can't or won't listen to the Holy Spirit. You are also implying that Catholics are mindless drones. They are not. Each and every Catholic has a mind, will, and emotions, and Jesus died for each and every one of us.

Would you like to be compared to a mindless drone? Would you like it if I said about you and your church that they only listen to Scripture through the filter of their denomination and their pastor? Not that I'm saying that about you. Heaven forbid I should say anything nasty about you when I don't even know you.

I am just asking that you keep comparisons that might include Catholics out of these fora.

You're completely reading all of that into what I said. I didn't mean to convey anything at all like that; generally, Catholics believe that it is through the hierarchy of the church that scripture is interpreted in any infallible manner. I wasn't attempting to say they are "mindless drones" or anything of that like negative connotation. Believe me, the only "nastiness" in my words is being put into them by your mind.
 
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JacksBratt

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When I was a grad student in Boston, I became friends with a very bright Christian women named Linda. She was in an impossible marriage with a sexually unfaithful husband. Her misery prompted her to ask God whether divorce was permissible. She prayed about this and then used an interpretive technique called bibliomancy; that is, she prayed, closed her eyes, and randomly opened her Bible and blindly pointed her finger at a text which turned out to be Jesus' prohibition against divorce in Mark 10:2-11. To her, this seemed like divine guidance, but she asked me what I thought of her conclusion.

I felt prompted to ask for her Bible. I closed my eyes, instantly randomly zapped my finger inside, and found it pointing to Deuteronomy 24:1-4, which gives permission for men to divorce their wives and specifies how to go about this. Linda was thunderstruck by this paranormal demonstration. When she composed herself, she smiled and wryly asked, "So are you saying your divine guidance trumps my guidance?" I was amazed at my impulse to do this and my success in doing so.

Years later, when I was a theology professor, I shared this story with a classics professor and his wife. They asked for a demonstration and I asked them to pick a subject. They replied, "How about a verse about a grain or chemical?" I closed my finger, zapped it in a Bible twice, and both times found my finger pointing to a verse about wheat!

Back to Linda. I replied to he question, "No, Linda, I accidentally discovered my odd talent to randomly open the Bible and point my finger at a verse that was startlingly relevant to an issue or desire I was contemplating. Early on, when I used this method, my imagined prophecy was amazing fulfilled shortly thereafter. My mistake was to assume I could do this at will. I found I could paranormally close my eyes and insert my finger on a verse that is startlingly relevant to a desire or problem I was contemplating, but that most of the time, the prophecy to be inferred from this coincidence never came true. So I concluded that I had simply activated a hidden psychic ability of my mind that had no necessary relationship with divine revelation.

I then explained, "What this really means, Linda, is that you should base your decision whether to get a divorce on your understanding of New Testament teaching and your resulting intuition about God's will on this question. But don't place any credence in the bibliomancy method." I then pointed to Matthew 19:9 where Jesus implies that divorce and remarriage are permissible in the case of a spouse's adultery. Linda changed her mind and got the divorce.

In fact, Mark 10:2-11 is merely presenting Jesus' general guideline that divorce is normally wrong, but Matthew 19:9 is identifying adultery as an exception to this rule. The permissive text in Deuteronomy 24:1-4 is part of the Old Testament Law that Jesus annulled.
This is very dangerous. God does not work this way.

I knew a guy who tried this when he was depressed. He decided to open the bible and do what ever it said.
The first verse was:

Matthew 27:5King James Version (KJV)

5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

He wasn't sure what this verse was telling him so he closed it up and tried again. This time he opened to this:

Luke 10:37King James Version (KJV)

37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.




 
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