Why do Christians disagree? Part 2

[victorinus]

Do you accept that there might be more than one reasonable or at least internally consistent explanarion for an event?

yes but testing should eventually eliminate the others

 

[Athée]

God is the source of truth and he creates in order to convey that truth to others through relationship. I used the marble analogy to convey the idea that there is only One way to God and that's through Jesus Christ, God's Son. So Jesus is like that one special marble and God is always pointing you to Jesus in order to enter relationship and know God the Father as being self-sacrificial and all loving. This is the Gospel in a nut shell, the more you earnestly seek the more revelation you'll receive.

Although, it really doesn't matter how much revelation you receive if you never accept it as true and follow.

I understood the analogy
The part I am asking about is the bit where you said God is always pointing us to fto truth. I wonder if there might be equivocation, shifting from the truth about interpretation of scripture to Jesus as truth. Those seem to me to be very different concepts. If you want to say that God points us to Jesus that is fine but what we were talking about was knowing that your beliefs about scriptural matters are true.

 

[Athée]

yes but testing should eventually eliminate the others

Fair enough, so what method do you use to test different but seemingly reasonable interpretations of scripture by the various groups and even individuals who call themselves Christians?

 

[victorinus]

Fair enough, so what method do you use to test different but seemingly reasonable interpretations of scripture by the various groups and even individuals who call themselves Christians?

I don't bother with them
-if-
I don't think they are critical
-and-
there are a lot of these
-
evolution vs creationism is a good example -
I believe both
-but-
creationism can explain things that evolution cannot
-
there are others and they would make a good thread

 

[Chriliman]

I understood the analogy
The part I am asking about is the bit where you said God is always pointing us to fto truth. I wonder if there might be equivocation, shifting from the truth about interpretation of scripture to Jesus as truth. Those seem to me to be very different concepts. If you want to say that God points us to Jesus that is fine but what we were talking about was knowing that your beliefs about scriptural matters are true.

I see. Yea, the ability to know that my beliefs about scripture are true only comes with honest and humble study of the scriptures, submitting myself to the holy spirit and refraining from clinging to my own understanding or what I wish the text would mean.

I believe it's best to understand the literal interpretation and not to interpret everything literally.

Take this scripture for example:
Rev. 17:3
"Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns."

I believe John literally had a vision of this woman on a beast and that this symbolizes something, but that belief is far different from believing there was literally a physical woman riding on a beast that had seven heads and ten horns. Hope that makes sense.

Anyhow, I do hope and pray that you find peace in God, keep searching with an open heart

 

[Athée]

I don't bother with them
-if-
I don't think they are critical
-and-
there are a lot of these
-
evolution vs creationism is a good example -
I believe both
-but-
creationism can explain things that evolution cannot
-
there are others and they would make a good thread

It sounds like you are saying that the way you decide what interpretations are thinking gods thoughts after Him, is to simply ignore any that you don't deem important enough. Is that what you meant?
How does one decide which truths of God are not worth pursuing?

 

[Athée]

I see. Yea, the ability to know that my beliefs about scripture are true only comes with honest and humble study of the scriptures, submitting myself to the holy spirit and refraining from clinging to my own understanding or what I wish the text would mean.

I believe it's best to understand the literal interpretation and not to interpret everything literally.

Take this scripture for example:
Rev. 17:3
"Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns."

I believe John literally had a vision of this woman on a beast and that this symbolizes something, but that belief is far different from believing there was literally a physical woman riding on a beast that had seven heads and ten horns. Hope that makes sense.

Anyhow, I do hope and pray that you find peace in God, keep searching with an open heart

I will

That said this response ses to bring us full circle back to the topic of the thread. You are suggesting that to actually know what is true you need to not hold on to your own understandings but lean on the holy Spirit to teach you the truth. It seems to me that a lot of people who disagree profoundly with each other , follow this same method. Maybe all the rest of them are deceived, maybe we are all deceived but whatever them he cade this state of affairs could be resolved by God if he exists and yet he doesn't seem to bother. I'm wondering why this might be the case?

 

[victorinus]

How does one decide which truths of God are not worth pursuing?

I want to spend more time on the ones that are

 

[Chriliman]

I will

That said this response ses to bring us full circle back to the topic of the thread. You are suggesting that to actually know what is true you need to not hold on to your own understandings but lean on the holy Spirit to teach you the truth.

Yes and this requires patience both on my end and on God's end. Thankfully God is far more patient than I am.

It seems to me that a lot of people who disagree profoundly with each other , follow this same method.

You may be right at this moment in time, but God promises that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth, we aren't quite there yet as a collective church body or bride of Christ, but the holy spirit will lead us there in time.

Thanks for your honest questions, may God's will be done in your life.

 

[Athée]

I want to spend more time on the ones that are

Sure and that makes sense but how do you decide which things of God are with pursuing and which ones you don't need to bother with?

 

[Athée]

Yes and this requires patience both on my end and on God's end. Thankfully God is far more patient than I am.



You may be right at this moment in time, but God promises that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth, we aren't quite there yet as a collective church body or bride of Christ, but the holy spirit will lead us there in time.

Thanks for your honest questions, may God's will be done in your life.

Thank you for your thoughts as well
Peace

 

[victorinus]

Sure and that makes sense but how do you decide which things of God are with pursuing and which ones you don't need to bother with?

those things that have to do with:
-salvation
-life
-freedom
-family
-marriage

 

[Athée]

those things that have to do with:
-salvation
-life
-freedom
-family
-marriage

Seems to me this is a rather broad spectrum and pretty much any doctrine or interpretation could be linked to one of these. As such, it seems to me that what you might be doing is evaluating all the competing ideas within the community of Christians by your own theology and simply accepting as reasonable only what matches with your preconceived notions. Reasonable Christians tend to disagree on each of those topics so I still don't see how this helps us.

 

[victorinus]

Reasonable Christians tend to disagree on each of those topics so I still don't see how this helps us.

any christian who does not consider these topics important is not being reasonable

 

[OzSpen]

So I'm still confused about how we identify these gifted teachers. You said that they would be those that teach things that agree with the bible. This seems to presuppose that the listener already knows the truth of what the Bible teaches , but that was exactly what was at issue, so I am not sure how this method would help?

I think you are being difficult rather than confused.

These are the facts: 'Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true' (Acts 17:11 NIV).

All born again Christians, with the Holy Spirit indwelling them, have the ability from God to know whether a preacher/teacher/the apostle Paul is teaching what is true. That's what Acts 17:11 teaches.

You have stated that you are a non-believer, so I don't expect that you will understand that the ones who have the truth living in them (by the Spirit) are able to discern false teaching from true teaching.

When the gifts of the Spirit are being manifested in the church gathering (particularly prophecy), this is the instruction: 'Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said' (1 Cor 14:29 NIV).

Therefore, all Christians have the ability to determine what is false teaching and it is the responsibility of Christians to 'weigh carefully' messages from the Spirit in the church gathering.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Reasonable Christians tend to disagree on each of those topics so I still don't see how this helps us.

Who are these 'reasonable Christians'? What makes them reasonable? What makes them Christian?

 

[Athée]

any christian who does not consider these topics important is not being reasonable

Maybe I wasn't clear. I was not suggesting that Christians disagree that these topics are important but rather that there are different understandings of each of those topics within Christianity, which leaves us with the same question I asked earlier.

 

[Athée]

I think you are being difficult rather than confused.

These are the facts: 'Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true' (Acts 17:11 NIV).

All born again Christians, with the Holy Spirit indwelling them, have the ability from God to know whether a preacher/teacher/the apostle Paul is teaching what is true. That's what Acts 17:11 teaches.

You have stated that you are a non-believer, so I don't expect that you will understand that the ones who have the truth living in them (by the Spirit) are able to discern false teaching from true teaching.

When the gifts of the Spirit are being manifested in the church gathering (particularly prophecy), this is the instruction: 'Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said' (1 Cor 14:29 NIV).

Therefore, all Christians have the ability to determine what is false teaching and it is the responsibility of Christians to 'weigh carefully' messages from the Spirit in the church gathering.

Oz

So do you believe then that all these people who call themselves Christians but don't agree with you on every point are not actually real Christians with access to the Holy Spirit?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

That is correct, I don't see harm as being caused by the fall of humanity because I don't belive that such a thing ever happened. You do however and for you this serves to justify your beliefs about good and evil. Fair enough. That said I notice you didn't respond to my analogy as requested. Why do you think you made that choice? And how would you respond to the question posed in that analogy. Namely would I have been morally responsible for the deaths of your family members if my henchmen had asked me for permission to kill them and I granted it?

I didn't respond to the analogy b/c it is not an analog...that is why I went on to deal with the reality of the situation.

 

[Athée]

Who are these 'reasonable Christians'? What makes them reasonable? What makes them Christian?

People of sound mind with intellectual integrity who identify as Christian, who would report having a personal relationship with Jesus and yet disagree with each other about what they think the Bible teaches on any number of topics, including the ones you mentioned.