Why do atheists seem to obsess over something they don't believe in?

[PsychoSarah]

There is only one true God, many religions about him.

Except when the bible on multiple occasions references those other religions as worshipping "false idols", not the same deity.

 

[Colter]

Except when the bible on multiple occasions references those other religions as worshipping "false idols", not the same deity.

Sarah, the Old Testament books were written/redacted by Hebrew religious officials for their own people about their own national God concept created largely in their own image. That's why the Jews are so heavily favored within the pages as "Gods chosen people". That's why those same people rejected Jesus' liberal teachings of a God personal to each individual on a world where we are ALL Gods chosen people in a spiritual kingdom.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Sarah, the Old Testament books were written/redacted by Hebrew religious officials for their own people about their own national God concept created largely in their own image. That's why the Jews are so heavily favored within the pages as "Gods chosen people". That's why those same people rejected Jesus' liberal teachings of a God personal to each individual on a world where we are ALL Gods chosen people in a spiritual kingdom.

Which again makes me question why you take stock in any of the content.

 

[Freodin]

Which again makes me question why you take stock in any of the content.

Because he has another, a different "holy book", which tells him exactly what the old divine revelations got wrong... oops, sorry, what those who wrote down the old divine revelations got wrong.

Just as Christianity did with Judaism, just as Islam did with both of these.

The main flaw in all these positions is the assumption that now they got it right, or even just more right than before.

 

[Colter]

Which again makes me question why you take stock in any of the content.

The Bible is like the news paper, things happen but then we have to consider the bias of the journalist etc. And then we have the church that derives its authority from a false teaching of their own that God wrote the Bible. So what the church does to believers the believers in turn do to others.

I think we need to rescue Jesus from the Bible.

 

[PsychoSarah]

The Bible is like the news paper, things happen but then we have to consider the bias of the journalist etc. And then we have the church that derives its authority from a false teaching of their own that God wrote the Bible. So what the church does to believers the believers in turn do to others.

I think we need to rescue Jesus from the Bible.

I pretty much agree with you, poor guy was probably some modest healer who kept up an image of magic through some parlor tricks so that he could get people to accept his treatments. Perhaps even a schizophrenic soul who thought he heard voices telling him to spread words of peace, who really knows? I think the valiant efforts of limited humans outshine the influence of limitless gods in terms of true significance.

 

[Colter]

Because he has another, a different "holy book", which tells him exactly what the old divine revelations got wrong... oops, sorry, what those who wrote down the old divine revelations got wrong.

Just as Christianity did with Judaism, just as Islam did with both of these.

The main flaw in all these positions is the assumption that now they got it right, or even just more right than before.

Freodin is part way correct here, I would only add that the Urantia Book that he refers to does NOT claim to be the word of God, rather its a composite presentation from multiple universe personalities of various authority and status. Further, the UB makes the frank admission that "revelation" is always relative, never complete or perfect.

 

[bhsmte]

The Bible is like the news paper, things happen but then we have to consider the bias of the journalist etc. And then we have the church that derives its authority from a false teaching of their own that God wrote the Bible. So what the church does to believers the believers in turn do to others.

I think we need to rescue Jesus from the Bible.

Professional scholars and historians have tried to do the latter for decades.

That fact that, these people who have studied this stuff their entire life, can only come to a consensus on the following, tells you how weak the historical evidence is to know what Jesus did or what Jesus said:

-Jesus was a real person
-Jesus was baptized
-Jesus had followers
-Jesus was crucified

Beyond that, the NT is on very thin ice.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Professional scholars and historians have tried to do the latter for decades.

That fact that, these people who have studied this stuff their entire life, can only come to a consensus on the following, tells you how weak the historical evidence is to know what Jesus did or what Jesus said:

-Jesus was a real person
-Jesus was baptized
-Jesus had followers
-Jesus was crucified

Beyond that, the NT is on very thin ice.

In better shape than the OT I bet

 

[bhsmte]

Freodin is part way correct here, I would only add that the Urantia Book that he refers to does NOT claim to be the word of God, rather its a composite presentation from multiple universe personalities of various authority and status. Further, the UB makes the frank admission that "revelation" is always relative, never complete or perfect.

How does the Urantia book verify it's claims with credible historical evidence?

 

[Colter]

Professional scholars and historians have tried to do the latter for decades.

That fact that, these people who have studied this stuff their entire life, can only come to a consensus on the following, tells you how weak the historical evidence is to know what Jesus did or what Jesus said:

-Jesus was a real person
-Jesus was baptized
-Jesus had followers
-Jesus was crucified

Beyond that, the NT is on very thin ice.

True.

In my opinion the Urantia revelation occurred when it did because of where the world finds itself in this age of less fear of deity, less superstition, more scientific development which diminishes the credibility of some aspects of the "sacred writings".

Jesus deliberately did not leave writings behind or anything that could become a fetish. The UB claims that he forbid the making of records by his apostles for similar reasons. Also if we consider that his immediate followers really believed that he would "soon return" they had less reason to record the words of Jesus for future generations. They thought the kingdom was going to come by some apocalyptic event. So by the times they did start to write Paul's powerful teaching had begun to influence the meaning of Jesus and the cross.

 

[Colter]

How does the Urantia book verify it's claims with credible historical evidence?

Only some of the UB can be verified up to this point.

 

[Freodin]

Freodin is part way correct here, I would only add that the Urantia Book that he refers to does NOT claim to be the word of God, rather its a composite presentation from multiple universe personalities of various authority and status. Further, the UB makes the frank admission that "revelation" is always relative, never complete or perfect.

The Qu'ran likewise does not claim to be "the word of God"... it is just a direct (personal, face to face) revelation from an archangel. And both NT and OT can be seen in this way... the "literal word of God" is just one, very limited, interpretation.

But all of these works claim to be the works of "personalities of authority".... either inspired prophets, angels, the "Son of God", God himself... but neither can show that it is more than the result of human minds.

Nothing that has been "revealed" by any of these books has ever been shown to be more than what humans already knew.

 

[Colter]

The Qu'ran likewise does not claim to be "the word of God"... it is just a direct (personal, face to face) revelation from an archangel. And both NT and OT can be seen in this way... the "literal word of God" is just one, very limited, interpretation.

But all of these works claim to be the works of "personalities of authority".... either inspired prophets, angels, the "Son of God", God himself... but neither can show that it is more than the result of human minds.

Nothing that has been "revealed" by any of these books has ever been shown to be more than what humans already knew.

You can read through some of the claims of the UB and subsequent validation.

Reports_List

 

[PsychoSarah]

True.

In my opinion the Urantia revelation occurred when it did because of where the world finds itself in this age of less fear of deity, less superstition, more scientific development which diminishes the credibility of some aspects of the "sacred writings".

Jesus deliberately did not leave writings behind or anything that could become a fetish. The UB claims that he forbid the making of records by his apostles for similar reasons. Also if we consider that his immediate followers really believed that he would "soon return" they had less reason to record the words of Jesus for future generations. They thought the kingdom was going to come by some apocalyptic event. So by the times they did start to write Paul's powerful teaching had begun to influence the meaning of Jesus and the cross.

Ok... This doesn't explain why you put stock in any of the scripture though

 

[Colter]

Ok... This doesn't explain why you put stock in any of the scripture though

Some things in the scripture are obviously untrue, others parts contain great wisdom.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Some things in the scripture are obviously untrue, others parts contain great wisdom.

I 100% agree, but what makes you think any of the deity stuff is true?

 

[bhsmte]

Some things in the scripture are obviously untrue, others parts contain great wisdom.

I agree.

And, everybody has their own interpretation of what is untrue and what parts give great wisdom.

 

[Colter]

I 100% agree, but what makes you think any of the deity stuff is true?

* Because I know God, it is a spiritual reality in my higher conscience.

* Because the Urantia Revelation of the 1900's shed a ton of additional light on the history of our planet, the tragic Lucifer rebellion in the celestial world, the effect of the rebellion on our world, the arrival of Adam and Eve, the arrival of Melchizedek, his work and then the arrival of The Son of God himself and his work and subsequent reaction of the world to his work.

 

[PsychoSarah]

* Because I know God, it is a spiritual reality in my higher conscience.

* Because the Urantia Revelation of the 1900's shed a ton of additional light on the history of our planet, the tragic Lucifer rebellion in the celestial world, the effect of the rebellion on our world, the arrival of Adam and Eve, the arrival of Melchizedek, his work and then the arrival of The Son of God himself and his work and subsequent reaction of the world to his work.

Wouldn't that literally translate to god being a figure of your imagination?

These sorts of things... I almost consider them the bible equivalent of fanfiction. Or head cannon