Why do atheists seem to obsess over something they don't believe in?

[JGG]

Some of the claims of the UB have been substantiated and yes, it does work for me much more so than the morbid worldview of Atheisms doctrines of death.

Kim Jung-un gives us a picture of the Atheist utopia.

Truly, what makes Christians stand out as the sole True Believers are the philosophies of "love your neighbour as yourself", "love the truth" and "bollocks to loving others and the truth if you can lie and make your scumbag neighbours look like nits."

It really is a wonder to see in action, and makes Christianity look so much more attractive.

 

[Colter]

Truly, what makes Christians stand out as the sole True Believers are the philosophies of "love your neighbour as yourself", "love the truth" and "bollocks to loving others and the truth if you can lie and make your scumbag neighbours look like nits."

It really is a wonder to see in action, and makes Christianity look so much more attractive.

I don't understand this post. What are you talking about?

 

[JGG]

I don't understand this post. What are you talking about?

I'm talking about the Christian philosophies of "love your neighbour as yourself", "love the truth" and "bollocks to loving others and the truth if you can lie and make your scumbag neighbours look like nits." Are the first two not also Christian philosophies?

 

[Kunjax]

Some of the claims of the UB have been substantiated and yes, it does work for me much more so than the morbid worldview of Atheisms doctrines of death.

Kim Jung-un gives us a picture of the Atheist utopia.

Colter, thanks for giving us the perfect example of why many atheists come to this forum. Also, thanks for the additional example of how Christians are not supposed to act if they wish to uphold Christian philosophies.

 

[Colter]

I'm talking about the Christian philosophies of "love your neighbour as yourself", "love the truth" and "bollocks to loving others and the truth if you can lie and make your scumbag neighbours look like nits." Are the first two not also Christian philosophies?

I still don't see your point. Jesus challenged his followers to love as he loved, love God with a whole heart. Jesus tried to reach everyone who was salvageable.

 

[Colter]

Colter, thanks for giving us the perfect example of why many atheists come to this forum. Also, thanks for the additional example of how Christians are not supposed to act if they wish to uphold Christian philosophies.

Can you elaborate?

 

[geneseib]

I am just surprisingly overwhelmed by the number of athiests and agnostics on Christian Forums. I'm not hating you for it, go head, do you! I was just wondering...why?

Romans 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

 

[Davian]

Romans 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Invisible, but clearly seen? Like this?

 

[Kunjax]

Can you elaborate?

Sure, you lied (unintentionally or not) to misrepresent your opposition. Bearing false witness is a very unchristian thing to do, and this misrepresentation is an example of why atheists come to this forum. To dispell these misconceptions that people like you keep on telling others.

Do you get it now?

 

[Ken-1122]

I am just surprisingly overwhelmed by the number of athiests and agnostics on Christian Forums. I'm not hating you for it, go head, do you! I was just wondering...why?

I don't believe in Buddha. But you don't see me arguing over him for hours, talking about him, thinking about him... I don't believe in Allah. But you don't see me arguing over him for hours, thinking about him, convincing others he's not true. I don't believe in Zeus or the other gods from mythology, but you don't see me on a Mythology Forum arguing why it's not true, spending hours debating over something I don't believe.

So why do atheists? I don't have any numbers, but from my observations over the years it seems like atheists are so... fired-up when it comes to disproving God. Why bother? If you don't believe it's true then why spend so much time, emotion, and energy convincing others you're right? To the point where you come to a Christian Forum? Why? What benefit are you receiving? Why not just be okay with it, "I don't believe in God, now I'm going to live my life." Why do you have to argue about Him all the time to the point to where it seems all you think about is how He's not real?

It seems so pointless. So, overall, why? Do you feel like it's your moral duty to try and convince the billions of people you're right? Is it the right thing to do in your eyes?

I just find it crazy how emotional atheists are over trying to debunk something they don't believe in, not specifically people on these forums but outside of it too.
Who are you trying to convince more, us or yourself?

I can only speak for myself, but my reasons for joining is because I see a lot of Christian bigotry out there. If Christians were content with discussing God and the bible without spreading hatred about Atheists, I would have no reason to join; but almost everytime Christians are left alone to discuss on such fourms; there is almost always some who will make a lot of statements about Atheists that I find offensive and bigoted and they are allowed to say this unchallenged.
I join to challenge this type of bigotry because these people vote, and I have to live with the consequences of their votes thus I feel obligated to do what I can to challenge their claims about us.

If there were a racist website that spoke ill of people of different races unchallenged, I would join that site to offer an opposing point of view as well.

Ken

 

[Golden Yak]

Kim Jung-un gives us a picture of the Atheist utopia.

Atheist utopia? This is the nation where they believe their dear leader has supernatural powers? Where all citizens are expected to thank and praise and grovel and exalt the dear leader for everything they have? To worship and glorify him in everything they do? The dear leader whose father was a reincarnation on his father? Who could control the weather? Whose birth was heralded by birds singing out praises to him, in Korean? Who's father is said to have ascended into heaven upon his death? Who still rules the nation from the afterlife as the Eternal President?

Don't kid yourself, boyo. It's the most religious place in the world.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Romans 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

They might not have had an excuse in pre-scientific cultures, but with modern science any honest person can find many good reasons to doubt the existence of a God.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Colter]

Sure, you lied (unintentionally or not) to misrepresent your opposition. Bearing false witness is a very unchristian thing to do, and this misrepresentation is an example of why atheists come to this forum. To dispell these misconceptions that people like you keep on telling others.

Do you get it now?

I used North Korea as an example because it has been the latest and most successful example of a nation run by a Godless family of leaders who through horrific oppression, the cult of personality and Juche have eradicated most religion from the country. Every godless society seems to devolve into the same despotic existence. There are Atheist on this forum who would like to do just that. One poster considers religion to be a "war on reality."

Atheist can be good and moral people, but there is no ultimate higher source of truth, beauty and goodness, no ultimate moral and spiritual leadership in Atheism. So one Atheist's opinion about what constitutes morality and ethics is just as legitimate as any other individual or group.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I used North Korea as an example because it has been the latest and most successful example of a nation run by a Godless family of leaders who through horrific oppression, the cult of personality and Juche have eradicated most religion from the country.

Eradicated? No. I'd say that they've created their own state religion.

Every godless society seems to devolve into the same despotic existence. There are Atheist on this forum who would like to do just that. One poster considers religion to be a "war on reality."

You see, OP? This is one of the reasons why atheists might be tempted to chime in on the conversation and say, "Umm... excuse me?"

Atheist can be good and moral people, but there is no ultimate higher source of truth, beauty and goodness, no ultimate moral and spiritual leadership in Atheism. So one Atheist's opinion about what constitutes morality and ethics is just as legitimate as any other individual or group.

You are again conflating atheism with nihilism.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I used North Korea as an example because it has been the latest and most successful example of a nation run by a Godless family of leaders who through horrific oppression, the cult of personality and Juche have eradicated most religion from the country. Every godless society seems to devolve into the same despotic existence. There are Atheist on this forum who would like to do just that.

Every communist society seems to devolve into despotism, but it would be improper to generalize that to all societies run by atheists or where there is a large atheistic population. Ever been to Sweden? I live there, and while atheists are numerous and accepted culturally, there is no despotism here.

It should go without saying atheists do not have to be communists, or even collectivists. I am very liberal-individualist-capitalist in my views, and I am hardly alone in that.

Atheist can be good and moral people, but there is no ultimate higher source of truth, beauty and goodness, no ultimate moral and spiritual leadership in Atheism.

Simply false. While there is no moral authority that all atheists agree on, there is no moral authority that all theists agree on. However, individual theists may have some moral authority in their worldviews, and so can individual atheists.

I personally recognize a natural and objective standard of truth, beauty, and goodness that simply isn't any kind of deity.

So one Atheist's opinion about what constitutes morality and ethics is just as legitimate as any other individual or group.

No, it isn't in my view. And are you saying that one religion's views on morality and ethics is just as good as any other's?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Colter]

Every communist society seems to devolve into despotism, but it would be improper to generalize that to all societies run by atheists or where there is a large atheistic population. Ever been to Sweden? I live there, and while atheists are numerous and accepted culturally, there is no despotism here.

It should go without saying atheists do not have to be communists, or even collectivists. I am very liberal-individualist-capitalist in my views, and I am hardly alone in that.



Simply false. While there is no moral authority that all atheists agree on, there is no moral authority that all theists agree on. However, individual theists may have some moral authority in their worldviews, and so can individual atheists.

I personally recognize a natural and objective standard of truth, beauty, and goodness that simply isn't any kind of deity.



No, it isn't in my view. And are you saying that one religion's views on morality and ethics is just as good as any other's?


eudaimonia,

Mark

The difference is that, while theists disagree on God concepts, they at least agree their is one Ultimate Authority who may express himself in our group conscience. In Atheism there is no ultimate authority beyond one mans opinion of naturalism, so eventually, if you were successful in eradicating religious people like North Korea, your personal natural morality as a voice carries no more weight than anyone else. Leadership may revert to the logic of collectivism like Pol Pot used logic. To Atheist leaders religion really is a kind of insanity, a contamination of rationalism.

BTW, appeal to the temporary tranquility of tiny Norwegian countries has become a popular default in religious and political debates as of late. There are about as many people living in New York city as there are in all of Sweden. Check back with the world after a few generations of godless naturalism and the rapid influx of immigrants from the middle east and let us know how the experiment is going.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The difference is that, while theists disagree on God concepts, they at least agree their is one Ultimate Authority who may express himself in our group conscience. In Atheism there is no ultimate authority beyond one mans opinion of naturalism, so eventually, if you were successful in eradicating religious people like North Korea, your personal natural morality as a voice carries no more weight than anyone else. Leadership may revert to the logic of collectivism like Pol Pot used logic. To Atheist leaders religion really is a kind of insanity, a contamination of rationalism.

Sorry to interrupt your bluster, but theism does not solve the problems that secular morality ostensibly faces. Contrary to your opinion, you do not hold higher moral ground simply by virtue of your theism. You're in the same position as everyone else who is trying to live ethically.

 

[Eudaimonist]

The difference is that, while theists disagree on God concepts, they at least agree their is one Ultimate Authority who may express himself in our group conscience.

Polytheists might disagree, and all theists may still disagree on matters of ethics, so what is really solved?

In Atheism there is no ultimate authority beyond one mans opinion of naturalism

Not true. It is not the case that everything rests on mere "opinion", as if one opinion is just as good as any other.

so eventually, if you were successful in eradicating religious people like North Korea

Stop it with that slander, please. Shall I talk about "you" killing Muslims in the Crusades, or Jews in the Spanish Inquisition?

your personal natural morality as a voice carries no more weight than anyone else.

Not true. Not all ethical positions are equally well argued and grounded in natural reality.

Religion is even worse on this count. How can a member of one religion argue that a member of another religion believes something incorrectly? They can't appeal to reason alone. All they can do is stamp their feet and claim to have the real divinely revealed books. Is it any wonder that religious violence can erupt?

To Atheist leaders religion really is a kind of insanity, a contamination of rationalism.

The mirror is facing yourself, Colter, with your views on atheists. YOU are the one dishing out vicious slander against an entire category of people. You are the one who considers atheism to be the pursuit of error. Take a good look in that mirror!

It is simply not the case that all "atheist leaders" view religion in that way, and very few of them advocate political suppression of religion.

BTW, appeal to the temporary tranquility of tiny Norwegian countries has become a popular default in religious and political debates as of late. There are about as many people living in New York city as there are in all of Sweden. Check back with the world after a few generations of godless naturalism and the rapid influx of immigrants from the middle east and let us know how the experiment is going.

I don't have any confidence in your ability to predict the future. You are just sharing your paranoia and negativity.

Your objection to immigration doesn't even make sense. There is nothing fundamental to this issue that depends on Swedish immigration policy. If an atheistic nation were to be more insular to middle-eastern immigration, would you hail atheism a success? If the only reason a nation were to fail is an overly generous and compassionate immigration policy, does that mean there wasn't ever a good society there after all?

Before you were talking about how at least all theists agree that there is one Ultimate Authority, and here you are clearly objecting to those Muslim theists invading other nations as immigrants! What love you have for your fellow theists, who share one Ultimate Authority, while atheists show more love to Muslims, many of them political refugees, with their immigration policy.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[bhsmte]

Can you elaborate?

Read the post he was referring to and you will have what you seek.

 

[Colter]

Polytheists might disagree, and all theists may still disagree on matters of ethics, so what is really solved?



Not true. It is not the case that everything rests on mere "opinion", as if one opinion is just as good as any other.



Stop it with that slander, please. Shall I talk about "you" killing Muslims in the Crusades, or Jews in the Spanish Inquisition?



Not true. Not all ethical positions are equally well argued and grounded in natural reality.

Religion is even worse on this count. How can a member of one religion argue that a member of another religion believes something incorrectly? They can't appeal to reason alone. All they can do is stamp their feet and claim to have the real divinely revealed books. Is it any wonder that religious violence can erupt?



The mirror is facing yourself, Colter, with your views on atheists. YOU are the one dishing out vicious slander against an entire category of people. You are the one who considers atheism to be the pursuit of error. Take a good look in that mirror!

It is simply not the case that all "atheist leaders" view religion in that way, and very few of them advocate political suppression of religion.



I don't have any confidence in your ability to predict the future. You are just sharing your paranoia and negativity.

Your objection to immigration doesn't even make sense. There is nothing fundamental to this issue that depends on Swedish immigration policy. If an atheistic nation were to be more insular to middle-eastern immigration, would you hail atheism a success? If the only reason a nation were to fail is an overly generous and compassionate immigration policy, does that mean there wasn't ever a good society there after all?

Before you were talking about how at least all theists agree that there is one Ultimate Authority, and here you are clearly objecting to those Muslim theists invading other nations as immigrants! What love you have for your fellow theists, who share one Ultimate Authority, while atheists show more love to Muslims, many of them political refugees, with their immigration policy.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Even though the source of so called "natural reality" in progressive society is the unacknowledged presence of the "spirit of truth", Jesus Christ, lets say you are correct, that there is a naturally floating moral principle derived from atomic matter among Atheist that you and your group agree upon. Why is your morality any different or better than another group of Atheist of equal or even greater size who may see "natural morality" very differently than you?????

I'm not objecting to immigration, I was addressing your temporary Atheist utopia in Sweden going forward that you keep comparing to other nations. Were you thinking that a predominantly Atheist Sweden is going to convert it's new arrivals? And frankly I more interested in the generations of Atheist children and how they will respond to their parents doctrines of death.

Did you say vicious slander? An elitist who looks down on religious people as imagining things, a man who has no respect for his heavenly creator, who wants to establish a godless society is lecturing someone about slander?

Mark, you seem like a fine person, really, this isn't personal, but I can only make comparisons using the Atheist or anti-God cultural political movements of the present and past. I know that there are good Atheist citizens who don't think like dictators at all, many of them enjoy the fruits of the religious nations that they live in while getting to express their godless ideology. Sweden may have turned away from it's predominantly Lutheran roots, but it remains to be seen what that will mean for future generations.

Muslims, a great many of them know God and bear the fruits in their lives communities and nations. Some are primitive.

I didn't participate in the Crusades nor would I. Jesus never condoned any such behavior!