Why do Atheist hate God?

[mikenet2006]

I added the bolding for emphasis. Stop perpetuating this myth. No one here is claiming that. Saying there is insufficient evidence to believe, or even that there is no evidence to believe is not the same as saying there is "no doubt" that there isn't a god. The vast majority of atheists are fine with saying "I don't know" when it comes to the origins of things.

On the flip side, most religious people will say there is "no doubt" in their minds that their personal God originated everything. Is that not an "arrogant" approach? Or will you only assign such labels to people that disagree with you?

I will say "no doubt" that's termonoligy I've heard Atheist use on several occasions, if that's not you, that's good. I'll elaborate to say each group has diversity, (as I have) but I have a pretty sharp memory. Bill Maher is one of the "not sure" Atheist, but he said he's 99.9% sure there isn't one, that doesn't alow for much wiggle room. Much of the stuff he says reflects that as well, he's condensending to believers and more or less makes God (or the idea of God) sound like a disease.

Not knowing for sure is the definition of an Agnostic by way, Atheist often seem to be nearly certain or certain and it shows in the determination some of them to be hurtful to those who do believe. For those who don't do that, I think it's nice when it happens, it's the kind of thing we need from a lot of people.

Are there those who are religious who feel they are certain? Sure, but Atheism is more often associated with logicality, so there's a double standard as far as that goes.

I'm out for the night, I'll be around here sometime tomorrow.

 

[Moral Orel]

Not knowing for sure is the definition of an Agnostic by way

Then absolutely every person in the universe should consider themselves an "agnostic" thanks to Descartes. No one can be certain that everything they experience is real, so there is no certainty.

We attribute labels such as "atheist", "agnostic", and "theist" to show where people fall on a scale. Atheist is perfectly fine for someone who doesn't believe there is any real evidence, but understands that things which are impossible to disprove can always be possible.

 

[Moral Orel]

Are there those who are religious who feel they are certain? Sure, but Atheism is more often associated with logicality, so there's a double standard as far as that goes.

Well there's certainly a double standard as far as your use of the word "arrogance" goes. Either people that assert that they know something for certain and that someone else is certainly wrong without proof is arrogant or they aren't. How they arrive at that conclusion is irrelevant.

 

[Moral Orel]

I will say "no doubt" that's termonoligy I've heard Atheist use on several occasions, if that's not you, that's good. I'll elaborate to say each group has diversity, (as I have) but I have a pretty sharp memory. Bill Maher is one of the "not sure" Atheist, but he said he's 99.9% sure there isn't one, that doesn't alow for much wiggle room.

So there's another atheist who doesn't assert there is no God. You keep saying that "you've heard" atheists say they are certain. Care to offer some quotes? Even Richard Dawkins won't say that, and I think he's one of the biggest jerks out there who is an atheist. Who cares about wiggle room? That wiggle room means they don't believe in God, not that they believe that God can't exist.

You complain about what a jerk people like Bill Maher is for attacking the beliefs of theists, but what do you think this thread is that you started? You're telling people what they believe, and how they feel, and calling them arrogant for your misperception of them.

 

[Hikarifuru]

DeanW


Hrm, well let me think about it. Nah, not confused, that believer said nothing of the sort, they said in quote.. "I think it is good for all of us to just love one another", You don't know how I respond to Christians who are hurtful to non-believers.



Again I misunderstand something? I thought about it both times, (surely if someone suggest something twice it's worth a closer look) but I'm thinking I do understand, what can I say. I'm a little worried about that second quote though, I mean seriously, are you okay? I'm sorry, particularly that part in bold, It's like Timmy off of SouthPark trying to form his first sentence or something.

I'm usually not this sarcastic to be cracking jokes at others, but it's one little pick after another from Atheist, and you act as if an Atheist coming here to mock a Christian on a Christian website which he doesn't have to participate in, is the worst thing they do (actually that's pretty low) but I've given examples of an Atheist saying word for word to "hate God", I've given an example of a ruthless dictator who was Athiest and targeted the religious, he was responsible for more deaths than Hitler (who by the way wasn't very religious), now if it falls on deaf ears that's your issue.

I think you may be a little confused actually, not that you're stupid, you seem to be about 10% smarter than those who rely on one-liners, but you do have tunnel vision. Hate and ugliness is a human trait that knows no political, racial, or religious bounds, I said this before because it's the truth. Atheist think they're smarter than those who believe in God, but I know their arguments. I wouldn't say that was ever my crowd but having been someone who was skeptical (still am at times) I've talked to a great deal of Atheist. Most of them are limited because they completely rule out things which they know little about.

Some of the greatest minds in the World have strongly considered God or believe in God. Geniuses who probably have more brains than everyone in this debate combined, myself included. One of the smartest men to ever walk on the planet, Albert Einstein, had this to say...


http://www.quotes.net/quote/47707

Einstein did not believe in God in the traditional sense, depending how you look at it, but he did have beliefs and generally had good things to say about Christianity. He often spoke about how, as people, we understand little about God, in other words he was very humble. Atheist, on the other hand, seem to think they have it all figured out, granted this is true of some Christians. Michio Kaku cofounded string field theory, he's one of the smartest people we have right now, he's contributed to multiple fields of science, he considers God as well, some of the experiments in quantum mechanics have caused debate about that. Science or intellectualism does not clash with the concept of God, science clashes with Christianity in some areas, but I'll leave that up to Christians to defend, I've already expressed my concerns with them as far as that goes.

You were right about one thing, my mind is made up here, but it's in the respect that I know many Atheist hate believers and the concept of God, I tend to be very open minded but I view Atheism as the antithesis of that. They think believers are a joke and categorize them as being socially backwards. For the most part, my goal was to get the Christian perspective on why they think Atheist are picking away at the beliefs that are important to them, what I didn't expect was to run across a small group who are here to do just that. I'm glad Atheist are here to participate but if they're under the impression that they can be belittling to believers while, more or less, suggesting they're ignorant I'm going to take issue with them, some of the Christians here are more compassionate than I am. Play it up like I don't know what I'm talking about but I know what I see and I hear the responses of those who believe, these things have been hurtful to many of them.

I was at Church for Easter, I don't usually go due to some belief differences but one of the Church members was called up front and explained his experience and thoughts about Christianity now being something that's considered weird or backwards, it was sad to listen to because I know what he said is true. Atheist focus on all the bad aspects of Religion so naturally they'll try to attack it, but if they're concerned about some believers being hypocritical or unaccepting to those who don't share their beliefs then they need to be fixing that as a problem with them first and foremost if they're acting the same way.

I do have to say that I'm impressed with this site though, in a style that's truely American they let those with no interest in Christianity (other than to make fun of it) come here and do what they do. I'm glad they have their own dedicated space though away from all this nonsense.

Actually what happened was that you asked why we hate religions, people gave you REALLY good examples reasons and all you did was argue about them or trivialize them.... and the moment someone asked a person if their belief could change the color of the sun you got upset.

No....you are confused.

 

[bhsmte]

I have to disagree, although people are indeed diverse I've seen a lot of hurt coming from the Atheist end of things. For informational purposes Christians generally believe we're all sinners but that prayer can be benificial and healing, and it is for many of them. Prayer for me is something that I've usually done for others, those that I care about and I believe that's a good thing. There is a dark side to Religion, but from my experience it's usually the other way around (in that it's a good thing), church groups help in the community and it's vital to their own wellbeing as well.

Churches are not the only way to have a good society.

In fact, the countries with the lowest crime rates and highest quality of life indexes, tend to be the countries with the lowest amount of people who are religious.

 

[rjs330]

Coincidentally, most of the husbands who do this don't quote the rest of the verse either. I'm not talking theory here, I'm talking practice.

If a man acted like this he would be in DIRECT violation of the teaching of scripture. And thus he would be sinning. To treat a woman wrongly is in DIRECT violation of the teachings,of Jesus and of the rest of the scripture.

Man has twisted the Scriptures for their own benefit too often because they have found it can be used as a club to mistreat people. And then during the Inquisition period the common man didn't even have the ability to read the scriptures. They had to depend on the priesthood to tell them what it said. Men wanted power over the,people and used the bible twisting it to meet their own agenda rather than God's. God will deal with them on the day of Judgement. I don't think it will go well for them.

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[The Cadet]

If a man acted like this he would be in DIRECT violation of the teaching of scripture. And thus he would be sinning. To treat a woman wrongly is in DIRECT violation of the teachings,of Jesus and of the rest of the scripture.

I'm sure it is. But it is equally a violation of scripture to take that mistreatment, so long as it does not consist of sexual infidelity or losing one's faith, and use it as grounds for divorce.

 

[mikenet2006]

DeanW

What you did in your last reply to me, much like before, is act as if that crack at the Christian member is insignificant and about as serious as it gets, would that be considered trivializing? I took issue with that because that member came in here saying things which were about as non aggressive and considerate as it gets, and someone took a swing at them. Primarily that's the kind of talk I hear from Christians here, and if you hang around the chat room on this site it's very much the same thing, very compassionate and welcoming things being said, and generally a very positive attitude unless someone is feeling down and needs help. In other words pretty much the opposite of how some Atheist describe Christians, there are exceptions but the member who came in here speaking about love wasn't one of them.

I had mentioned before that what I wanted to get is the Christian perspective on why Atheist do this. It's interesting that I got feedback from Atheist but from what I can tell, it's similar to things I've heard before. They hate the religious (or concept of God) for a few reasons that make sense, but the problem is that many of them are laser focused on things they find to be rotten and that develops their opinions. It'd be like someone getting apples, some of which happen to be rotten, then picking out and eating the rotten ones only to complain about how nasty apples are. So yea, some of the things Atheist complain about are serious, (things I've very much taken to heart throughout my life) but at this point I'm wanting to look at the bigger picture.

It's not hard to dig up dirt, I didn't enjoy doing that when I pulled in resources to demonstrate how nasty Atheist can be because I don't think that's an accurate description of all of them, but with that said pointing out the bad in Religion or believers is something Atheist do a great deal, and nobody is forcing them to be on a Christian website. Where you said kill kill, tortue, kill kill to express your feelings about scripture, I don't think the majority of Christians think like that. Even with that, in honesty, you do come across as respectful much of the time, perhaps not to me, but I've noticed it some, and I'm sure that's appreciated when it happens. Do you notice the amount of kindness that comes from many believers? I've heard about why much of it upsets you, but what do you see that's good in those who believe?

Nicholas Deka

So there's another atheist who doesn't assert there is no God. You keep saying that "you've heard" atheists say they are certain. Care to offer some quotes? Even Richard Dawkins won't say that, and I think he's one of the biggest jerks out there who is an atheist. Who cares about wiggle room? That wiggle room means they don't believe in God, not that they believe that God can't exist.

You complain about what a jerk people like Bill Maher is for attacking the beliefs of theists, but what do you think this thread is that you started? You're telling people what they believe, and how they feel, and calling them arrogant for your misperception of them.

We attribute labels such as "atheist", "agnostic", and "theist" to show where people fall on a scale. Atheist is perfectly fine for someone who doesn't believe there is any real evidence, but understands that things which are impossible to disprove can always be possible.

I'll find some quotes soon, the one from Maher as well if I can hunt it down. I've been pulling in a lot of substantiation if you look back, you're right to feel that's important. I've heard some Atheist come off as if (or saying) they know there's no God, others are very confident there isn't one. I'll meet you halfway though and say your description is a fair one for other Atheist. I may be turning this thread over to Atheist at some point though if things get too ugly, that in combination with me needing to work on my website. It's been 6 or 7 on 1 for the most part, with a Christian popping in now and then, that's actually good to get me prepared when I think about it, so I don't know. As for me telling others how they feel? It seems to me Atheist are here to tell Christians how they feel, and in some cases it's in a manner thats condescending and hurtful, all I had to do is pay attention. Not all of them do it, but I see it a good bit.

Often when an argument is made there's no acknowledgement that it can be at all accurate, it's viewed as ridiculous, actually, one of the comments left here by a Christian was described as "hilarious". If an Atheist says something hurtful the (yea but) approach is used. In other words, it's... yea that Atheist said or did something that was kind of hurtful, but those who are Religious are aliens from Mars out to steal our children so they can sacrifice them to the Gods of Demos and Phobos. Sarcasm, but I don't see much acknowledgement on why the non religious may hold some responsibility, with the exception of a couple members who came in here with honesty. Giving an example of a ruthless atheist dictator who killed millions and targeted churches didn't change how much the role of the Atheist is being downplayed.

Before the (yea but) approach is used again, those who are Religious have done things which have hurt their cause, there is the dark side to religion without question, things that should be taken seriously, but I think it's important to be fair. I see a lot of good in those who are religious as well, I've usually felt welcomed, and they often put a lot of effort into helping others, and in my eyes those things deserve to be considered.

 

[Gene2memE]

Not knowing for sure is the definition of an Agnostic by way, Atheist often seem to be nearly certain or certain and it shows in the determination some of them to be hurtful to those who do believe. For those who don't do that, I think it's nice when it happens, it's the kind of thing we need from a lot of people.

I'm both an atheist AND an agnostic. These are not mutually exclusive positions.

Theism refers to belief.
Gnosticism refers to knowledge.
Knowledge is a subset of belief, generally defined as 'justified true belief' (which properly elucidated is a 15,000 word philosophical tract on its own).

As an agnostic atheist, I have no belief in gods. I am also making no knowledge claim about the existence of gods though. I have just failed to be convinced that there is sufficient evidence to justify a belief in gods. I am also failed to be convinced there is enough evidence to say there are no gods.

Think of a coin in someone's closed fist. The coin could be face up or face down.
Theism is akin to making a claim 'the coin is face up'.
Atheism is akin to stating 'I don't believe you'.

Note that this is not saying the coin is face down. It is a provisional statement based on a lack of evidence. I cannot come to a conclusion about the state of the coin (ie the existence of gods), because I don't believe the claims about them as I don't have sufficient persuasive evidence.

 

[mikenet2006]

Fair enough Gene2memE

I've often seen some very cocky positions being taken, but I think acknowledging variety is important. I was Agnostic myself, probably verging on Atheism, but I started to consider things I hadn't before and also got turned away by the Atheist I knew who would crack jokes at believers and assume they're less intelligent. This was a sad thing for me because I had rejected religion, in large part, because some who believed would judge. So now I'm at the point where I see that as something humans are generally prone to doing. We'd get a lot more done if we slowed things down a bit and started talking with others, rather than talking past them. It's something I have to remind myself as well, it's too easy to start assuming, it's hard to be objective.

 

[Moral Orel]

I had mentioned before that what I wanted to get is the Christian perspective on why Atheist do this. It's interesting that I got feedback from Atheist but from what I can tell, it's similar to things I've heard before.

Then you posted in the wrong section. If you wanted an echo-chamber that reinforced your misconceptions about what an atheist believes, there are Christian-only sections for that. If you cared what atheists believed (or rather don't believe to be accurate) then you should be asking atheists, not Christians.
But since you started a thread that tells atheists what they believe and how they feel in a place where they are free to voice their opinions, you're darn right we're going to speak up and tell you that you don't get to speak for us.

They hate the religious

Do you see the distinction between that and hating God?

but the problem is that many of them are laser focused on things they find to be rotten and that develops their opinions.

Sure. And they hate those things. Many others and myself have found quite a few reasonable Christians on these boards, but more unreasonable (in my experience at least). I'm sure many of them would acknowledge that if you were sincerely asking what people thought of other Christians, but that isn't the topic of your OP.

I've heard some Atheist come off as if (or saying) they know there's no God, others are very confident there isn't one.

Bolding added by me for emphasis. This is your subjective and biased interpretation of what people are saying. You seem to interpret "I see no evidence whatsoever" as "I am certain there is no". That is incorrect. Those are very different statements. And being very confident there isn't one still doesn't mean they "know" there is no God or that they hate Him. This is where you are telling others what they believe.

As for me telling others how they feel?

Yes. Look at the title of your OP. You may phrase it as a question, but you are stating that atheists hate God, and then asking why. You are telling a vast and varied group of people how they feel, even though the statement itself makes no sense. You can't direct emotions at something that you don't even think is there.

Giving an example of a ruthless atheist dictator who killed millions and targeted churches didn't change how much the role of the Atheist is being downplayed.

Yea, but...

but I think it's important to be fair.

How many people have been killed in the name of religion and how many people have been killed by atheists? How many atheists have killed a bunch of people, and how many theists have killed a bunch of people? Let's be fair. One of these things is a big problem even today, and one of them has a few outliers. So if you want to bring up Stalin for killing millions, I'll bring up Hitler who killed millions and claimed to be a Christian. How about the Crusades? They were in retaliation for a different group of theists who were even worse. I could go on and on. Is your idea of "fair" saying, "well religious people have done a ton of terrible things, but atheists did a little bit too, so everyone has equal blame"?

I see a lot of good in those who are religious as well, I've usually felt welcomed, and they often put a lot of effort into helping others, and in my eyes those things deserve to be considered.

Me too. But I can also recognize the good in non-believers as well. Go hang out in any thread about the age of the planet or the universe, or evolution. You will see plenty of people attack religious people for putting up false and inaccurate information denouncing science. But look closer. Look for the times when anyone asks an honest question. You'll see no end to the helpfulness of atheists (and Christians too) trying to assist someone in getting a better understanding of the concepts that many people don't bother to learn before they argue against it.

If you're looking for the bad in people, you'll find it. And then you'll feel justified in making threads such as this that make a generalized statement about an entire group of people that you don't really understand. Take a look at your apple analogy and apply that to yourself.

If you want to make an argument about what someone believes and what someone feels, then you ought to ask them about their subjective experiences and emotions, and not rely on the opinions of others who have not one inkling if the inner machinations of the atheist mind.

 

[Gene2memE]

You can be a theistic agnostic, plenty of people are. I spent the majority of my life as one. My basic belief system was 'Yes, I believe there is a God, but I can't be completely certain'.

As for atheists being condescending, I think in part that's an in-group identification thing (us/them mentality of small groups), part a reflection of the general demographics of Western atheists (which in the US at least tend to be younger, more Caucasian, better educated, more engaged in STEM fields and higher paid than the average population) and partially a response (again, thinking of the US here) to the strong socio-political link between conservative/right of centre politics and protestant/baptist denominations, particularly through the 'Bible Belt'.

Condescension or even hostility from one group towards another doesn't actually have any bearing on whether their arguments are valid. There are plenty of theists that crack jokes about atheists (look at Conservapedia, its a clown car of bad joke based on faulty assumptions and poor logic), but that doesn't make their arguments any more or less correct.

Just because there are sneering, condescending, cocky atheists out there, doesn't mean they 'hate God'.

A lot of atheists are angry (so are a lot of theists). What they are angry about though is not 'God', it is the actions and attitudes of the believers in God. When groups with dissimilar beliefs to your own pushing their ideologies into the public square and forcing sets of behaviour on groups that don't share their beliefs, that's something to be angry about.

Hence the debate over abortion, same sex marriage, wedding cakes, school textbooks, and the whole rigamarole about gender identity. Using 'strongly held beliefs' as the underpinning for discrimination is a terrible way to provide an equitable base for society. Similarly, using 'because the bible says so' is an exceptionally poor foundation for teaching history and science.

 

[bhsmte]

They hate God because they want to remain their own God. Acknowledging Gods existence means accepting reality that there are hell bound sinner. Ignorance is bliss so maintain the lie that there is no God but themselves

Cool story.

 

[Locutus]

I don't wallow in sin, the bible says since I've accepted Christ I'm dead to sin and alive to Him. Besides I don't drink, do drugs, watch filthy tv or listen to filthy music, I don't curse, I don't wear pants, I don't cut my hair, I do what I can not because I have to but because I want to.
.

Unusual ideas on what constitutes sin.

It's hard to grasp that some consider clothing options and swear words more morally critical than saving the planet or feeding starving children, but there you are.

 

[Locutus]

They hate God because they want to remain their own God. Acknowledging Gods existence means accepting reality that there are hell bound sinner. Ignorance is bliss so maintain the lie that there is no God but themselves

Right, right. This makes sense, I understand now. So that's what you do with Zeus and Odin etc? You maintain the lie that they don't exist because you're terrified of not receiving their favour. It really does explain a lot about how you (and others of your faith) really feel about those gods. For some reason I had imagined that monotheists didn't believe in those gods at all, but you've shown me how wrong I've been. I see now that they actually hate them because they fear them.

 

[The Cadet]

They hate God because they want to remain their own God. Acknowledging Gods existence means accepting reality that there are hell bound sinner. Ignorance is bliss so maintain the lie that there is no God but themselves

That doesn't even try to make sense.

 

[rjs330]

I'm sure it is. But it is equally a violation of scripture to take that mistreatment, so long as it does not consist of sexual infidelity or losing one's faith, and use it as grounds for divorce.

Yes you are correct IF the abuser,does,not want a divorce. I would say that the abuser is not a believer and thus if he wishes to leave the Christian woman is under,no obligation to stay and under no restrictions on remarriage. InCorinthians Paul addresses this issue. If an unbeliever wishes to leave we are to let them go. Again there is NO biblical prohibition against separation. So an abused wife is under no obligation to live with an abuser.

I'm sure it is. But it is equally a violation of scripture to take that mistreatment, so long as it does not consist of sexual infidelity or losing one's faith, and use it as grounds for divorce.

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[Eudaimonist]

They hate God because they want to remain their own God. Acknowledging Gods existence means accepting reality that there are hell bound sinner

The truth is, of course, precisely the opposite.

People become atheists because they accept reality. They accept that they were mistaken to believe that any God exists (or that gods exist). They want to be honest with themselves, and so they accept that they are now non-believers.

Oh, how great it would be if everyone who disagreed with oneself did so because they were dishonest! What a convenient universe it would be.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[The Cadet]

I would say that the abuser is not a believer

This is not a good excuse.