Why did Jesus need to die?

[doubtingmerle]

You truncate the GOSPEL

Because only one could willingly lay down HIS LIFE so as to take it up again

Only one can enter into the HOLY ORESENCE of GOD and mediate between GOD and man and bring the two together

Because ONE party (of the COVENANT) is HOLY

The other party isn't

I don't think this answers my question. Once more, here is the question:

He makes the rules. So why did he make up this rule that says he cannot forgive unless his son is killed?​

You say only one could do that. Ok, that is the rule you think the world works by: In order for God to forgive, his son has to be killed. Again, who made that rule? God? If your God is omnipotent, why didn't he make a different rule? Why didn't he say he would forgive after a few years of community service?

 

[Grafted In]

When a person who is not a believer and spends as much time ranting about God and His injustices, so.ething is amiss. Why do you spend so much time in CF criticizing God and the beliefs of The Body of Christ, I consider that an obcesstion. I'm just verbalizing what more than likely most Christians on CF believe.
You write hateful things about God's wisdom, as though you could do better.
And not once have I labeled you mentally ill.
In my last post I erged you to repent and believe The Gospel.
If you would only re-read that post while laying aside your personal feelings about me you would see that I tried to give you encouragement.
I do not hate you as a person. I hate the constant barrage of hate you share with us having to do with the things of God.
Why all the hate for the way He chooses to operate His own creation?
You are well read and speak badly of The God of the universe. He created you, doubtingmerle, yet your actions and words on CF reveal an underlying problem.

 

[miknik5]

[


CHRIST lives sir
This part of THE GOSPEL you have not been made aware of

 

[Tree of Life]

That's the penalty for a child stealing a cookie? Death?

No.

Why wouldn't God make reasonable penalties?

His penalties are perfectly wise, just, and reasonable.

Show me a nation on earth that would accept a governor giving up his son to death as payment for the penalty for someone who has committed a capital crime. Show me a nation that would accept killing the governor's son, and letting the criminal go free. No nation would consider that justice.

This is true but I struggle to see how this is related to our relationship with God.

What you are talking about simply has no relation to anything we know about law. No law allows the death of somebody else in the case of a capital crime.

Your comments simply demonstrate to me that you haven't even begun to grasp what I'm talking about.

 

[Chriliman]

He makes the rules.

Yes, and He's eternal and immortal, therefore His rules are different from man-made rules because men are not immortal, due to sin. This is critical to understanding God's laws vs man's laws because God's laws are framed from an eternal and everlasting point of view, whereas man's laws are not.

So why did he make up this rule that says he cannot forgive unless his son is killed?

God pays the price for our sins in order that we may live forever with Him as originally intended before man sinned. He knew we would sin and die, which is why Jesus(begotten of God) was sent to die and save us from death.

Q: Why does God feel the need to pay a price for our sins and redeem us?

Because even though we've sinned, He still desires for us to have everlasting life because He's a loving God.

In human terms, it's similar to how a loving father/mother wants their child to be a loving and respectable person despite the wrong choices they make, so they'll punish them for wrong choices and discipline them and tell them why what they did was wrong to make them better and give them the best chance at being a loving and respectable person in life. In this case, with God, we're talking about eternal joyful life that never ends, which is why the punishment and discipline is on a different/higher level than mortal humans are used to.

You say only one could do that. Ok, that is the rule you think the world works by: In order for God to forgive, his son has to be killed. Again, who made that rule? God? If your God is omnipotent, why didn't he make a different rule? Why didn't he say he would forgive after a few years of community service?

See above. The simple answer is because God is eternal and immortal, he's not a mere man, though He chose to subject a part of Himself to mortality through Jesus Christ's life and death(never sinned during his life on earth) in order to save all by raising Christ from the dead and achieving victory over sin and death for us.

The reason God could raise Christ from the dead is because Christ never sinned while being a man, which means he actually didn't have to die, he didn't even have to become a man, but he chose to do it in order to save men from sin and death through his death and resurrection.

The Father and the Son work together as One to achieve God's will, which is the salvation of man to eternal joyful life.

 

[doubtingmerle]

When a person who is not a believer and spends as much time ranting about God and His injustices, so.ething is amiss. Why do you spend so much time in CF criticizing God and the beliefs of The Body of Christ, I consider that an obcesstion. I'm just verbalizing what more than likely most Christians on CF believe.
You write hateful things about God's wisdom, as though you could do better.
And not once have I labeled you mentally ill.
In my last post I erged you to repent and believe The Gospel.
If you would only re-read that post while laying aside your personal feelings about me you would see that I tried to give you encouragement.
I do not hate you as a person. I hate the constant barrage of hate you share with us having to do with the things of God.
Why all the hate for the way He chooses to operate His own creation?
You are well read and speak badly of The God of the universe. He created you, doubtingmerle, yet your actions and words on CF reveal an underlying problem.

I was not abused as a child.
I was not abused as a child.

How many more times do you need me to repeat that?

Were you abused as a child? Why are you so obsessed with telling people they were abused?

I have never once ranted about God being unjust. I have mentioned that people say that God did things that are unjust. But I don't think God did the unjust things that people claim he did.

I do not speak hate here. If you think I ever posted hate, echo it back and say this is hate speech. You do not do that. You have not tried to back up a single claim. Instead you stick with false accusations of hate that you cannot justify and don't even try to justify. Please quit lying about people.

 

[miknik5]

I was not abused as a child.
I was not abused as a child.

How many more times do you need me to repeat that?

Were you abused as a child? Why are you so obsessed with telling people they were abused?

I have never once ranted about God being unjust. I have mentioned that people say that God did things that are unjust. But I don't think God did the unjust things that people claim he did.

I do not speak hate here. If you think I ever posted hate, echo it back and say this is hate speech. You do not do that. Instead you stick with false accusations of hate that you cannot justify. Please quit lying about people.

I do not hate the way God acts. I don't think a God does the things you claim.

Do you think it better that in the end HE pick and choose each of HIS disobedient children by comparing each of HIS (other) disobedient children

Even a natural father knows that is not good

And yet the FATHER of LIGHTS provides ONE WAY by which all of HIS disobedient children can be saved and we, in our greater wisdom, decide there is a "better way"?

 

[doubtingmerle]

[


CHRIST lives sir
This part of THE GOSPEL you have not been made aware of

The resurrection is another thread.

This thread is about why Jesus needed to die.

So far all I can find is circular reasoning. Why did he need to die? Because he needed to die. But why did he need to? Because he needed to. But why?

Can you see why we don't find that argument very impressive?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Do you think it better that in the end HE pick and choose each of HIS disobedient children by comparing each of HIS (other) disobedient children

Even a natural father knows that is not good

And yet the FATHER of LIGHTS provides ONE WAY by which all of HIS disobedient children can be saved and we, in our greater wisdom, decide there is a "better way"?

OK, so there was no need for Jesus to die in order to save us. He just chose to do it that way.

Got it.

 

[Chriliman]

The resurrection is another thread.

This thread is about why Jesus needed to die.

So far all I can find is circular reasoning. Why did he need to die? Because he needed to die. But why did he need to? Because he needed to. But why?

Can you see why we don't find that argument very impressive?

In my post to you I said that he did not need to die but rather he chose to die because we are the ones who need to die because we sinned. In his choosing to die for us he is able to resurrect us from the dead. I thought I explained it pretty well in post but maybe not, is there something that wasn't clear?

 

[miknik5]

The resurrection is another thread.

This thread is about why Jesus needed to die.

So far all I can find is circular reasoning. Why did he need to die? Because he needed to die. But why did he need to? Because he needed to. But why?

Can you see why we don't find that argument very impressive?

So that men will have nothing to say in their defense. So that all mouths will be silenced. So that all will come to the knee buckling TRUTH of just how far all of us have fallen from the HOLY GLORY and IMAGE of GOD

 

[miknik5]

So that men will have nothing to say in their defense. So that all mouths will be silenced. So that allem will come to the knee buckling TRUTH of just how far all of us have fallen from the HOLY GLORY and IMAGE of GOD

Because if ONE died then all were dead

Unless of course HIS death was in vain and there was another way?

But then a man in foolishness can attempt to try that as his defense

 

[doubtingmerle]

Yes, and He's eternal and immortal, therefore His rules are different from man-made rules because men are not immortal, due to sin.

Got it. Your God makes the rules, and decided the rule would be that God would not forgive unless somebody kills his son. He didn't need to decide that. He just did. So salvation was just an act? Your Jesus didn't need to die, but he decided he was going to do that anyway?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Unless of course HIS death was in vain and there was another way?

Didn't you just say that nobody forced God to require the death of his son, that God just decided to do it? If that is so, then what did the death accomplish, other than to fulfill a rule God never needed to make?

 

[miknik5]

Didn't you just say that nobody forced God to require the death of his son, that God just decided to do it? If that is so, then what did the death accomplish, other than to fulfill a rule God never needed to make?

No I didn't say that at all

I don't ever remember saying this even once

 

[miknik5]

And I would never say that GOD just decided to do it

It is clearly prophecied throughout HIS WORD and from the beginning that this was planned from the beginning

HE didn't just decide to do it

 

[miknik5]

HE laid out by HIS WORD that this very sacrifice was foretold and planned from the beginning and even before GOD brought forth the created world

 

[Chriliman]

Got it. Your God makes the rules, and decided the rule would be that God would not forgive unless somebody kills his son. He didn't need to decide that. He just did. So salvation was just an act? Your Jesus didn't need to die, but he decided he was going to do that anyway?

Jesus needed to die to save us just as a person would need to go into a burning building to save someone from the fire.

So in order to save the sinner he needed to die. He allowed men to kill him out of obedience to God who Jesus knew would resurrect him because he never sinned. So it was man who killed Jesus and his death was unjust because Jesus was completely innocent. So God raised him from the dead to bring justice and forgiveness to those who believe Jesus did this in order to save them from sin and death.

 

[doubtingmerle]

No I didn't say that at all

I don't ever remember saying this even once

That's odd, because I read where you said that nobody forced God to require the death of his son.

OK, let's go with your flip flop. So you now think that somebody forced God to require the death of his son. Interesting. Who or what forced God to require the death of his son?

 

[miknik5]

That's odd, because I read where you said that nobody forced God to require the death of his son.

OK, let's go with your flip flop. So you now think that somebody forced God to require the death of his son. Interesting. Who or what forced God to require the death of his son?

Oh you mean when I said HE willingly laid down the flesh? That no man takes it from HIM That HE has the power to lay it down and take it up again?


That is quite different than GOD fighting against HIS own SPIRIT in forcing the SON to do what the SON always does

Exactly what THE FATHER does

Not to mention that if HE wanted to HE could have called HIS FATHER's angels

But then how else would scripture have been fulfilled?