Hi NV,
I don't agree with a lot of what you posted and I imagine that would be largely expected based merely on our two understandings of reality, i.e., one with God and one without God. However, the one small part of your post that I quoted was addressed and that's the reason I only quoted that small part and not your entire post.
As I see it, and I'm sure you won't agree with this either, but the Scriptures tell us that it is a fool who says in his heart, there is no God.
In my opinion, it is the fool who says in his mind that there is no God. Atheism is simply the lack of a belief in God. To assert that God does not exist is a subset of atheism that is generally regarded as unreasonable among us atheists.
So arguing your many other points is much like Greta Thunberg's response to President Trump: It's would be a waste of time.
You're the one wasting time when you come here in bad faith. This is an informal debate forum where the primary rule for any thread is that it must present an identifiable argument for or against theism. For you to come in here saying that there is no debate is to operate on bad faith. Further, you ignore my counterpoints and my questions. On top of that, you incorrectly assume what it is that I believe and then attack that strawman with Bible verses.
Quite silly, sir.
As I wrote, the reasonable man who would consider the gospel, should seek for wisdom concerning the truth concerning the Scriptures. If one could find a way to prove that the Scriptures had to come from somewhere other than man, then one might likely be more open to the idea that they proclaim truth.
That is a good idea to chase for those who have come here to argue on behalf of the existence of God.
Yes, there are now and have always been, even among the body of believers, disagreement over various and sundry understandings of what a particular place of the Scriptures are intended to tell us.
And yet in all your years you've never known that there are many Christians who disagree with you on the most basic, core belief of Christianity.
However, none of that really has any bearing on whether or not there is a God that exists.
Yes, true, but irrelevant to you, since you have made it clear that you have no intention of advocating for God's existence with logical arguments.
However, confusion on the most basic idea of Christianity is something that is evidence against the existence of the Christian God because the Christian God wants us to understand and believe in Christianity.
All of that is merely the noise that men make because they lack wisdom and understanding. That's why a brought to your attention Peter's writing to us that there are those among us who find Paul's writings and the Scriptures difficult to understand.
It is an acknowledged problem within mankind, but it is the underlying truth of whether or not there is a God that one must address with an atheist.
The reality is that we simply don't know if there is a god of any kind.
Others who believe in some deity don't need to be convinced that there is a God, but they need to be instructed as to 'who' is the one true and living God.
Instructed by whom? The holy spirit?
So, it takes different approaches sometimes when addressing people with the various worldviews that mankind holds.
I'm sorry if I offended you in not responding to your entire post, but reaching an atheist is not done by arguing all of the various 'contradictions and misunderstanding' that are alleged of the Scriptures.
No need to apologize, even if you did offend me. But of course you didn't. However, you're dead wrong: addressing 'contradictions and misunderstanding' is
exactly how you preach to an atheist because that's why a lot of us lost our faith. Well, that's true for right now, because most current atheists are ex-Christian. But it's looking like the next generation will be raised as atheists and so a different approach will be needed (assuming one even exists).
An atheist first needs to come to understand that there is a a God. Then the other things will pretty naturally fall into place.
And I will tell you exactly how to do that: fine tuning. Find the grand unifying theory of physics so that we can understand quantum mechanics and relativistic events with the same model, and then proceed to show that the physical constants of the universe are finely tuned and that they could have actually been "tuned" to other values that would render stellar formation to be impossible. Further, show that the process of universe creation does not occur naturally. Lastly, explain why an omnipotent being would bother fine tuning a creation instead of sustaining it as a matter of will.
I then proceeded to explain about the seeming fruitlessness of Jesus' ministry to offer some evidence that there will be some, perhaps you are one, who will just flat out deny the existence of God, despite any evidence offered to the contrary.
But that's a terrible argument. Of course if I were miraculously healed by Jesus then I would believe in him.
That would be, as I understand the Scriptures, the fool who says in his heart that there is no God. The heavens declare the glory of God. Look to the heavens and marvel at the works of His mighty deeds.
Another terrible argument. What exactly do you think the universe would look like if there were no God?
If you're interested, perhaps in IM we can discuss the great prophecy of Daniel and it's implication to us as to the existence of God.
You must first wrestle with my thread
here.
If, on the other hand you've settled the matter in your heart, then again I offer that I didn't address your other points in your post for that very reason.
God bless,
In Christ, ted
You ignored my counterpoints and questions because you assumed the status of my heart?
OK buddy. My heart is hardening... against
you. You've got one more post to get it together and give me a good one. If you redact everything I've said again like a White House transcript, we can just be done. If you ignore my points, we can just be done. Or we can engage on the points and follow the actual rules of this forum, which is to discuss the existence of God.
