why did Adam have reproductive organs

[Polycarp1]

Working from what USIncognito said, but with an important element that he omits added:

Many good Christians understand the first few chapters of Genesis as "myth" in the anthropological sense --not meaning "false story" but rather "story told as a parable rather than in a strict historical account sense." Just as the truth of the Parable of the Good Samaritan does not depend on whether an actual historical figure named Isaac ben Jerahmeel decided to travel from Jerusalem to Jericho, was robbed by thieves, and was rescued by a man from Samaria named Eleazar bar Shechem on the 22nd day of Aviv, 25 AD, so too do the truths about God's Creation and mankind found in those books not depend on whether God created the yellow-bellied sapsucker on a given Thursday in October, 4004 BC.

Accordingly, suppose Old Earth Creationism for the moment. There are fossils of both Neanderthals and modern man found in both the Holy Land and northern Iraq and Iran. If Adam and Eve were the first man and woman in the theological sense, capable of moral choice in a way that cats and rats and elephants are not, they nonetheless had progenitors which reproduced, and had the equipment to do so, in the way that we share with other mammals. The difference between them and their ancestors was God "brething the soul" into them.

Next point: while the story is told anthropomorphically from man's point of view, under anybody's scenario God has foreknowledge of what will come about. There is no reason that he could not have created Adam with genitalia, knowing that He would be creating Eve. Beyond which, almost no part of the male genitalia is single-purpose. Ask any little boy why he has a penis, and he'll explain (with an air that that's a dumb question) that it's to pee with. And of course the testes produce hormones necessary for life as a healthy male, not merely sperm.

But the one issue I really want to raise here is the presumption that sex had something to do with the Fall. This is one of the commonest heresies of American Christianity, probably deriving from the fact that sexual sin is a temptation that everyone feels and that sex is a major issue in American culture. But Gen. 1:28 and 2:24-25 make it very clear that Adam and Eve were unted as husband and wife, and commanded to have children, before the Fall ever occurred. "Be frutitful and multiply" is not a command to plant an orchard and engage in mathematics!

 

[wonder111]

But the one issue I really want to raise here is the presumption that sex had something to do with the Fall. This is one of the commonest heresies of American Christianity, probably deriving from the fact that sexual sin is a temptation that everyone feels and that sex is a major issue in American culture. But Gen. 1:28 and 2:24-25 make it very clear that Adam and Eve were unted as husband and wife, and commanded to have children, before the Fall ever occurred. "Be frutitful and multiply" is not a command to plant an orchard and engage in mathematics!

I have always felt that, and I believe it derives from sex being the biggest temptation for many people as well.

thanks for the other points, all interesting

 

[ForeRunner]

I have always felt that, and I believe it derives from sex being the biggest temptation for many people as well.

thanks for the other points, all interesting

You say that as if sex were a bad thing.

 

[wonder111]

You say that as if sex were a bad thing.

no people who think it's the greatest sin think it's a bad thing

 

[LorentzHA]

LOL, you read minds too? And the world revolves around you? I was refering to the thread starter, sorry you was not included.

Nope but you posted right under mine, that is typically how that works. And yes you corrected the spelling but also note that should be, sorry you were not included, not was.

 

[Duane Morse]

Genesis 2:23 - And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

You all seem to assume it to be merely a physical rib of Adam, somehow grown into a female form or something. Then a separate soul put in.

Assumptions can be very misleading.

Eve was taken out of Adam. The female was taken out of the whole. The one became two. And the two shall be one.
Adam, as first formed, was male and female. The male and female were separated. One soul, both male and female in nature. One soul with two parts. Two ribs, as can be seen in my avatar, the Heart.

It was this "rib" that was taken from the side of Adam and formed into Eve.
Adam and Eve are one.

A better way to phrase the question might be,
When Adam was first formed did he have both male and female reproductive organs, or none at all?

 

[USincognito]

Are you suggesting Adam might have been a parthenogenetic hermaphrodite? If so, since parthenogenitic spicies (like the whip tail lizard) are considered female, then perhaps Eve was the first created.

Quoting Polycarp:

"Be frutitful and multiply" is not a command to plant an orchard and engage in mathematics!

Best Apologetic Ever!

 

[toff]

Genesis 2:23 - And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

You all seem to assume it to be merely a physical rib of Adam, somehow grown into a female form or something. Then a separate soul put in.

Assumptions can be very misleading.

Eve was taken out of Adam. The female was taken out of the whole. The one became two. And the two shall be one.
Adam, as first formed, was male and female. The male and female were separated. One soul, both male and female in nature. One soul with two parts. Two ribs, as can be seen in my avatar, the Heart.

It was this "rib" that was taken from the side of Adam and formed into Eve.
Adam and Eve are one.

A better way to phrase the question might be,
When Adam was first formed did he have both male and female reproductive organs, or none at all?

Nice idea. Shame it has absolutely no biblical support.

 

[ej]

I guess you're bringing up the question as to whether Adam ever needed to be split into male and female parts?

If humans could just divide and multiply like bacteria, the whole 'sex' issue would be unnecessary

 

[Inspired]

I guess you're bringing up the question as to whether Adam ever needed to be split into male and female parts?

If humans could just divide and multiply like bacteria, the whole 'sex' issue would be unnecessary

that's a painful image, lol I don't wanna split in half

 

[Duane Morse]

Are you suggesting Adam might have been a parthenogenetic hermaphrodite? If so, since parthenogenitic spicies (like the whip tail lizard) are considered female, then perhaps Eve was the first created.

Quoting Polycarp:


Best Apologetic Ever!

Adam was male and female, but Adam is the female within the Son of God, Jesus.
Haven't you ever wondered about the Bride for the Bridegroom?
The woman clothed with the sun?
Of God's image, male and female?
All the references to the Holy Spirit being female in places like Proverbs?

Neither male nor female were created first in Man, they were created together, as one. Man is essentially female, just as Jesus, being one with the Father is essentially male. And just as Eve was taken out of Adam, Man was taken out of Jesus. Just as Eve will be one with Adam, the Holy of Man as the Bride will be one with Jesus, the Bridegroom.

You really have to understand the perpetualness of it. Man comes from Jesus, just as Jesus comes from Man. One is in the other, and visa versa.
Jesus is in the Father, just as the Father is in Jesus. The Spirit is in the Father, just as the Father is in the Spirit.

One comes from the other, and the other leads to the one.
The Spirit comes from the Father, and the Father leads to the Spirit.
While at the same time, the Father comes from Spirit, and the Spirit leads to the Father.
God becomes Man through and as Jesus; and Man becomes God through and as Jesus.

John 14:20 - At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Duane Morse:

Your ideas are interesting and discomforting.

I believe Adam and Eve have separate souls, so you completely lost me at that point. They are husband and wife, one in purpose, one in their journey toward the Lord, their unity is spriritual and not literal. Being female myself, I am not quite understanding your attitude toward our existance. Am I a non-spirit? Is my very existance incomplete without a male counterpart? If not, at what point did females get their own souls?



Adam and Eve were created in the image of God.

That tells me that God has a female counterpart. Because Adam and Eve are two beings, my speculations lean toward God, being male, having a female companion, a "wife," a Heavenly Mother. (speculation only, but it makes sense to me)

I believe it was Heavenly Father's plan from the beginning to create female, not an afterthought. Especially since He is omniscient, right?

Adam and Eve were commanded to be fruitful and multiply.

I believe they had the means to do just that. God, in His foresight, would have organized their bodies in a manner that would bring about His purpose: procreation.

Why did they never procreate while in the garden? That is another question completely....

but I believe they had everything but possibly belly buttons.

 

[Duane Morse]

Duane Morse:

Your ideas are interesting and discomforting.

I believe Adam and Eve have separate souls, so you completely lost me at that point. They are husband and wife, one in purpose, one in their journey toward the Lord, their unity is spriritual and not literal. Being female myself, I am not quite understanding your attitude toward our existance. Am I a non-spirit? Is my very existance incomplete without a male counterpart? If not, at what point did females get their own souls?



Adam and Eve were created in the image of God.

That tells me that God has a female counterpart. Because Adam and Eve are two beings, my speculations lean toward God, being male, having a female companion, a "wife," a Heavenly Mother. (speculation only, but it makes sense to me)

I believe it was Heavenly Father's plan from the beginning to create female, not an afterthought. Especially since He is omniscient, right?

Adam and Eve were commanded to be fruitful and multiply.

I believe they had the means to do just that. God, in His foresight, would have organized their bodies in a manner that would bring about His purpose: procreation.

Why did they never procreate while in the garden? That is another question completely....

but I believe they had everything but possibly belly buttons.

Why discomforting? Because of the prospect of a true soul-mate?
At the prospect that it is God that has chosen our true mate as we were created vs. choosing your own?

God is male and female, the Father being the male and the Spirit the female. What is so strange about Man, who is created in the image of God, being a single soul that is both male and female?

Of course you are incomplete without your other half. We all have felt it, it is why we look for that completing other. But our judgement is not so good when it comes to that sort of thing, just look at the divorce rate even among Christians.

You say that the unity of Adam and Eve is not literal, but do you know that for a fact? You believe that males and female have separate souls, but do you know that for a fact?
The Bible clearly states that Eve came out of Adam. If you want to take that to mean it in a purely physical way you can do so. But if you leave the spiritual aspect out of it you will miss out on the fullness of Truth.

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Yes Eve was created of Adam. And Adam created of the dust of the earth. He is spiritual at one with this earth as he is Eve.

I agree that we often search for a partner, and I even subscribe to the "soul mate" idea... to an extent.

However, your ideas on this matter are not consistant with most Christians I come across. Most site Paul's words to the Corinthians as evidence that it is best for us to remain single if at all possible. That idea is not what I personally glean from his words, because I believe so much that the role of husband and wife is divine.

Now, I disagree with the importance you place on taking Biblical unity so literally. Ultimately, your interpretations stir images of a happy globulous of spirits in heaven, which I do find rather disturbing.

Heavenly Father created individuals, male and female, His children. We do not cease to be reasoning, thinking, learning individuals--- especially when paired with our companion, who complements us in every way.

 

[Chi_Cygni]

The egg came first!!!

 

[Duane Morse]

Yes Eve was created of Adam. And Adam created of the dust of the earth. He is spiritual at one with this earth as he is Eve.

I agree that we often search for a partner, and I even subscribe to the "soul mate" idea... to an extent.

However, your ideas on this matter are not consistant with most Christians I come across. Most site Paul's words to the Corinthians as evidence that it is best for us to remain single if at all possible. That idea is not what I personally glean from his words, because I believe so much that the role of husband and wife is divine.

Now, I disagree with the importance you place on taking Biblical unity so literally. Ultimately, your interpretations stir images of a happy globulous of spirits in heaven, which I do find rather disturbing.

Heavenly Father created individuals, male and female, His children. We do not cease to be reasoning, thinking, learning individuals--- especially when paired with our companion, who complements us in every way.

Actually we are in the world, not of it. The physical body is made up of the components of the earth, but the spiritual comes only from the Spirit of God, not the planet.

I agree that the role of husband and wife is of a divine nature, but that is because the role of husband and wife, one husband for one wife, comes directly from God.

Paul and I do not agree on everything, at least how he presents certain things. If I apply a certain interpretation I can agree with most of what he writes however. As for avoiding marriage, that also makes sense up to a point. If more people avoided marriage there would be far less divorce.
The point I see is to avoid marrying until you find the person that is so suited to you that you can find no reason not to be with that person for the rest of your life. If you can find the one person that you could spend eternity with, you may have found your soul-mate.
But that means a very close examination of both yourself and the other.
If you find any incompatibility it should remain on a friendship basis only. The sexual should not come into the relationship before all other aspects of the relationship are explored. If you disagree on anything, and can not come to a mutual undertanding and agreement, then there is an incompatibility that would indicate that this is the wrong person.
I do not mean that you accept each others differences, I mean there should be no differences. You should be able to see eye to eye on everything.

"Ultimately, your interpretations stir images of a happy globulous of spirits in heaven, which I do find rather disturbing."
I'm sorry you see it that way. But the Creation is the physical, and we will remain as physical being even in heaven. The body that Jesus has now is different than our own, but it is still a form of flesh and bone. It is still of substance.
And as Life progresses we are continually being split and rejoined with our other, one time able to enjoy the separate aspects of each other and the next being able to enjoy the fullness of completion.
Things will never get boring, but they will always be getting happier and more joyful.

"Heavenly Father created individuals, male and female, His children. We do not cease to be reasoning, thinking, learning individuals--- especially when paired with our companion, who complements us in every way."

I fully agree with one exception. The Heavenly Father created His children as individuals that are, at once, male and female. Just as the Heavenly Father is, at once, male and female. We do not cease to be reasoning, thinking, learning individuals--- especially when paired with our companion, who complements us in every way. Heaven has more in store for us than we can possible imagine. And I may be able to imagine more than you, but it is beyond even my great imagination.

 

[Duane Morse]

The egg came first!!!

Very good. But not complete.
And in what state was the egg?

 

[BigToe]

I don't think you answered her question about females being non-spirits and when they got their own souls.

 

[spike]

The point I see is to avoid marrying until you find the person that is so suited to you that you can find no reason not to be with that person for the rest of your life. If you can find the one person that you could spend eternity with, you may have found your soul-mate.
But that means a very close examination of both yourself and the other.
If you find any incompatibility it should remain on a friendship basis only. The sexual should not come into the relationship before all other aspects of the relationship are explored. If you disagree on anything, and can not come to a mutual undertanding and agreement, then there is an incompatibility that would indicate that this is the wrong person.
I do not mean that you accept each others differences, I mean there should be no differences. You should be able to see eye to eye on everything.

These are exceedingly stringent requirements, to the point of impossibility and the denial of individuality. Are you stating a hypothetical union or your actual philosophy?

Or, is there a degree to the incompatibility; say, differences on political issues? Colors? Favorite ice cream flavors?

-spike-

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Duane Morse: Green arizona_sunshine: red

Actually we are in the world, not of it.

Very good, I agree with you there. But that is why I misunderstand your interpretation of the union between Adam and Eve. ???

The physical body is made up of the components of the earth, but the spiritual comes only from the Spirit of God, not the planet.

I agree.

I agree that the role of husband and wife is of a divine nature, but that is because the role of husband and wife, one husband for one wife, comes directly from God.

*Sighs* and adores her future husband all the more... where ever he may be!

Paul and I do not agree on everything, at least how he presents certain things. If I apply a certain interpretation I can agree with most of what he writes however. As for avoiding marriage, that also makes sense up to a point. If more people avoided marriage there would be far less divorce.
The point I see is to avoid marrying until you find the person that is so suited to you that you can find no reason not to be with that person for the rest of your life. If you can find the one person that you could spend eternity with, you may have found your soul-mate.
But that means a very close examination of both yourself and the other.
If you find any incompatibility it should remain on a friendship basis only. The sexual should not come into the relationship before all other aspects of the relationship are explored. If you disagree on anything, and can not come to a mutual undertanding and agreement, then there is an incompatibility that would indicate that this is the wrong person.
I do not mean that you accept each others differences, I mean there should be no differences. You should be able to see eye to eye on everything.

Your ideals are solid. On the issues of priority, I feel there should be no disagreement.

"Ultimately, your interpretations stir images of a happy globulous of spirits in heaven, which I do find rather disturbing."
I'm sorry you see it that way. But the Creation is the physical, and we will remain as physical being even in heaven. The body that Jesus has now is different than our own, but it is still a form of flesh and bone. It is still of substance.

Hmm, I suppose I have misunderstood some of your views. After the resurrection, I completely agree that we will be physical beings. Perfected, as Christ has been.

And as Life progresses we are continually being split and rejoined with our other, one time able to enjoy the separate aspects of each other and the next being able to enjoy the fullness of completion.

As natural beings, we fall in and out of allignment with the Lord... which is why we need the atonement. The ultimate goal, the "fullness of completion" you speak of, I agree, would be perfect unity, perfect allignment.

Question: Do you believe that perfect allignment can be made between an individual and the Lord? or only a united male, female and the Lord?

Things will never get boring, but they will always be getting happier and more joyful.

Totally with you there, just imagine what we will be seeing!

"Heavenly Father created individuals, male and female, His children. We do not cease to be reasoning, thinking, learning individuals--- especially when paired with our companion, who complements us in every way."

I fully agree with one exception. The Heavenly Father created His children as individuals that are, at once, male and female. Just as the Heavenly Father is, at once, male and female.

Hmmmmmmm..... I am really really not following the male + female thing. I believe my gender is part of my divine nature.

We do not cease to be reasoning, thinking, learning individuals--- especially when paired with our companion, who complements us in every way.

I agree with myself there

Heaven has more in store for us than we can possible imagine. And I may be able to imagine more than you, but it is beyond even my great imagination.

I agree, and your thoughts have greatly impressed and interested me. You make a lofty assumtion about my imaginative limitations. I encourage you to go on if you are so willing...