Why critics of Ellen G. White are "splitting hairs".

[Adventist Dissident]

Way too much work. Simpler is to point to where it has already been dealt with.

As for her will see http://www.whiteestate.org/books/mol/Appendix N.html

On the contradicting the Bible claim see: http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/contradictions.html (53 charges dealt with)

Ran across these pages about the shut door: http://www.whiteestate.org/books/egwhc/EGWHCaxA.html#sth40

Shut-door documents: http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

Shut door - case study: http://www.whiteestate.org/books/mol/Chapt44.html from Messenger of the Lord: The Prophetic Ministry of Ellen G. White by Herbert E. Douglass

L

ooks like the "issue" has already been dealt with repeatedly--its our research skills that are in question! Oh well, can't study everything!

See this is what I am talking about, you are attcking me and my skills. You bring a subject up that I don't and then expect me to have footnotes and references to respond to immedately. I never said she was a millionare . It is your quote not mine. this is the first time you have posted any thing in response to the shut door. , bact at pst 34, 35,36 if you would have posted these thing then we would not even be having this disscussion. why did you wait so long. the reason we posted the information in the SDA fourm is so that other SDA's could reply and answer, because we don't know what to do with it. Now I will look at your info, but it will take a while.

 

[djconklin]

It is unfortunate that she never could remember what she had said to J. H. Waggoner in 1856, of which Uriah Smith had such a vivid recollection,

How long after the events did he have these "vivid recollections"?

 

[djconklin]

See this is what I am talking about, you are attcking me and my skills.

Not you--now who's being too sensitive?!? That includes all of us! Note the ending of the sentence ("--its our research skills that are in question! Oh well, can't study everything!")--does that refer to you or me, or all of us!!!!!!!? Which is most likely?

if you would have posted these thing then we would not even be having this disscussion. why did you wait so long.

I just found them not 15 minutes ago, okay? What did I say about our research skills, eh? Could you have found them just as easily a long time ago?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

That's because I'm like the miner's canary and can easily tell when people are being too rough on others.

OTOH, men are too beligerant online.

give me a break. what is otoh? you may be beligerent but you can't universalise that to others.

 

[djconklin]

What law is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ? I answer: Both the ceremonial and the moral code of ten commandments. {1SM 233.1}

Note the context!

These false teachers were mingling Jewish traditions with the truths of the gospel. Ignoring the decision of the general council at Jerusalem, they urged upon the Gentile converts the observance of the ceremonial law. {AA 383.1}

Note who she is talking about and that it is not her claiming that Galatians was all about the ceremonial law.

 

[djconklin]

give me a break. what is otoh? you may be beligerent but you can't universalise that to others.

OTOH = on the other hand

As for the univrersalization it was something I read more than a couple of years ago in a study ab't online male behavior.

 

[Sophia7]

Note the context!

Note who she is talking about and that it is not her claiming that Galatians was all about the ceremonial law.

I agree. That wasn't the reason that I posted those quotes; I was just posting as many examples as I could find of what she said about the law in Galatians because I was asked to look them up. She did seem to go back and forth in describing the law in Gal. 3 as the moral law at times and as both the moral and ceremonial laws, though. However, my original point in bringing this whole issue up was to point out that people were disagreeing with Ellen White when they said that Gal. 3 refers only to the ceremonial law. I believe that it refers to the whole law, both moral and ceremonial. I will concede that it's unclear whether she changed her views over time since we don't have some of the earlier records relevant to the controversy. People could have just misunderstood some of what she wrote as well.

 

[tall73]

But since I was asked.

She said that it was especially in regard to the moral law. She also says it encompasses both.
We don't have any written record of what was said to Waggoner Sr. So in light of that fact, I can only conclude she thought it was both, and ESPECIALLY the moral law. Which is, incidentally, a conclusion I agree with.

Paul was writing about both. He mentioned circumcision, days, seasons, years, etc, which clearly indicates the ceremonial. And he indicated that people would not be justified by their keeping of the law given at Sinai, the moral law.

Basically the law will save no one.

And of course he ends with an appeal to have the law in our hearts, to manifest the fruits of the Spirit, and not use freedom as a cover-up for evil.

I don't see this one as a big issue myself, after re-examining the quotes. If she changed her view we have no proof of that fact. And the view she wound up with was certainly the view of Paul in my thinking.

 

[djconklin]

I was just posting as many examples as I could find of what she said about the law in Galatians.

Excellant starting point!

She did seem to go back and forth in describing the law in Gal. 3 as the moral law at times and as both the moral and ceremonial laws, though.

I have to agree with tall73 on this point. From what I read in the quotes it seemed to me that which law is in view isn't in her view. She's more interested in righteousness by faith.

People could have just misunderstood some of what she wrote as well.

Seeing how easily people misinterpret even what is said today I'd suggest that possibility be at the top of our list!

 

[Sophia7]

I have to agree with tall73 on this point. From what I read in the quotes it seemed to me that which law is in view isn't in her view. She's more interested in righteousness by faith.

I can see your point here. If this is the case, though, why are more Adventists today not interested in righteousness by faith? The whole point of Galatians is that we can't be saved by keeping the law--either the moral or ceremonial law. EGW seemed to agree with this in the quotes that I could find.

 

[djconklin]

Off-hand, I can think of two reasons:

1) I don't think many SDA pastors preach righteousness by faith.

2) Too many members don't read, period. And they don't read EGW's The Sanctified Life & Faith and Works & Daniells' Christ Our Righteousness. They may have read Steps to Christ once before but have since forgotten it.

 

[OntheDL]

I can see your point here. If this is the case, though, why are more Adventists today not interested in righteousness by faith? The whole point of Galatians is that we can't be saved by keeping the law--either the moral or ceremonial law. EGW seemed to agree with this in the quotes that I could find.

(Traditional) Adventists do believe in righteousness by faith. But that's different from the 'faith alone' doctrine.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Working backwards here!



My beef was that you basically ask us to drop everything, go to various web sites, and deal with alleged "issues." But when I post a link you show that you never even went there!

I do not know where you got this idea. I ask you to respond to the issues. I don't expect you to drop everything. You don't have to answer until you have an answer. These ideas are for discussion. Bring your counter arguments, and evidence. I want to hear them. I want to put critics in there place if they are wrong, but I don't know the counter arguments. Now you have given me some new info I will take a look at it, but telling me I should believe because you do is not enough.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Way too much work. Simpler is to point to where it has already been dealt with.

As for her will see http://www.whiteestate.org/books/mol/Appendix%20N.html

On the contradicting the Bible claim see: http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/contradictions.html (53 charges dealt with)

Ran across these pages about the shut door: http://www.whiteestate.org/books/egwhc/EGWHCaxA.html#sth40

Shut-door documents: http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

Shut door - case study: http://www.whiteestate.org/books/mol/Chapt44.html from Messenger of the Lord: The Prophetic Ministry of Ellen G. White by Herbert E. Douglass

Looks like the "issue" has already been dealt with repeatedly--its our research skills that are in question! Oh well, can't study everything!

see this it what I am talking about. It has not been delt with here and with the critic who are asking here and now. that is the job of the apologist and why we are going through this in sda fourm so you can respond.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Way too much work. Simpler is to point to where it has already been dealt with.

As for her will see http://www.whiteestate.org/books/mol/Appendix%20N.html

On the contradicting the Bible claim see: http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/contradictions.html (53 charges dealt with)

Ran across these pages about the shut door: http://www.whiteestate.org/books/egwhc/EGWHCaxA.html#sth40

Shut-door documents: http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

Shut door - case study: http://www.whiteestate.org/books/mol/Chapt44.html from Messenger of the Lord: The Prophetic Ministry of Ellen G. White by Herbert E. Douglass

see this it what I am talking about. It has not been delt with here and with the critic who are asking here and now. that is the job of the apologist and why we are going through this in sda fourm so you can respond.

this is the attitude we are suppose to have

Ellen White pointed to one of the basic attitudes needed by those in the arena of opposing presuppositions: “True Christian love cherished in the heart and exemplified in the life, would teach us to put the best possible construction upon the course of our brethren. We should be as jealous of their reputation as of our own. If we are forever suspecting evil, this very fact will so shape their course of action as to produce the very evil which we have allowed ourselves to suspect. In this way, a great many difficulties are manufactured that otherwise would never have had birth, and brethren are often wronged by our being suspicious, free to judge their motives, and express our opinion to others in regard to their actions. That which one may be ready to construe into grave wrongs, may be no more than we ourselves are chargeable with every day.”1

http://www.whiteestate.org/books/mol/Chapt44.html#More Than a Minor Footnote
I believe this to be a very good concept in general, but find it rather odd that the author quotes this and ascribes ill will to the critics. hum!! I also see this as a call to being nieve, some times there is deception and should looked out for. I also find it rather odd he quotes EGW on the attitude we are suppose to have in how to study her writings.. It's not about attitude its about evidence

 

[Adventist Dissident]

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[reddogs]

Looks like a post was deleted..

 

[djconklin]

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[djconklin]

Way too much work. Simpler is to point to where it has already been dealt with.

As for her will see http://www.whiteestate.org/books/mol/Appendix%20N.html

On the contradicting the Bible claim see: http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/contradictions.html (53 charges dealt with)

Ran across these pages about the shut door: http://www.whiteestate.org/books/egw...axA.html#sth40

Shut-door documents: http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

Shut door - case study: http://www.whiteestate.org/books/mol/Chapt44.html from Messenger of the Lord: The Prophetic Ministry of Ellen G. White by Herbert E. Douglass


Quote:
Looks like the "issue" has already been dealt with repeatedly--its our research skills that are in question! Oh well, can't study everything!

see this it what I am talking about. It has not been delt with here and with the critic who are asking here and now.[/quote]

That what the links are for. They have already dealt with the "issue."

 

[djconklin]

I looked at the sda archive, but could not access it because I don't have the right software.

When you try to dl'd the file it asks if you want to install the program that reads it.