Why critics of Ellen G. White are "splitting hairs".

[Castaway57]

Is it really hairsplitting? I mean the difference between juice and wine is a small one, yet it is a very important issue for the sda... so important as to make God's word void... so important as to bend the word of God... making juice out of wine...

Think about it!

If you are talking about "wine" as in alcoholic beverages, it is not "a small difference" by any stretch of the imagination. I worked in the health care field for over 14 years and I saw first hand, the results of "wine." That stuff don't happen with "juice."

It would be bending the word of God to say there is only "a small difference."

 

[JohnMarsten]

If you are talking about "wine" as in alcoholic beverages, it is not "a small difference" by any stretch of the imagination. I worked in the health care field for over 14 years and I saw first hand, the results of "wine." That stuff don't happen with "juice."

It would be bending the word of God to say there is only "a small difference."

Yeah! Exactly! its not a small difference, yet the sda is vehemtly trying to cover things up, saying that in most cases grape juice was meant instead of wine... but in effect it is splitting hairs!

 

[Castaway57]

Yeah! Exactly! its not a small difference, yet the sda is vehemtly trying to cover things up, saying that in most cases grape juice was meant instead of wine... but in effect it is splitting hairs!

They are not covering anything up, they are pointing out that this difference is important and that many people twist the Bible's meaning of wine to mean "alcoholic beverage;" rather than it's usually intended meaning of unfermented grape juice. In other words, Adventists are saying that it is bending the word to say Jesus would condone something that kills and maims more people every year, than almost anything else one could name.

You are breaking the forum rules by constantly coming to this Adventist forum and attacking our beliefs. You need to find some where else to post your vitriol.

 

[JohnMarsten]

They are not covering anything up, they are pointing out that this difference is important and that many people twist the Bible's meaning of wine to mean "alcoholic beverage;" rather than it's usually intended meaning of unfermented grape juice. In other words, Adventists are saying that it is bending the word to say Jesus would condone something that kills and maims more people every year, than almost anything else one could name.

You are breaking the forum rules by constantly coming to this Adventist forum and attacking our beliefs. You need to find some where else to post your vitriol.

thank you very much for the encouraging words!

 

[Castaway57]

thank you very much for the encouraging words!

Likewise, I am sure. But I doubt thats what you are looking for here.

 

[Castaway57]

thank you very much for the encouraging words!

House Rules-
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against this group's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7397546/

 

[JohnMarsten]

House Rules-
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against this group's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7397546/

technically speaking, I am still a member...

 

[Castaway57]

technically speaking, I am still a member...

lol, that must be very technical. Dont get me wrong; you are welcome here if you want to play along with the rules for each forum. If you really must debate such things, just set up a topic somewhere where it would be allowed and PM some of us you think might be interested. Thats not very technical so I am sure things will work out. Happy New Year to you & your's!

 

[JohnMarsten]

lol, that must be very technical. Dont get me wrong; you are welcome here if you want to play along with the rules for each forum. If you really must debate such things, just set up a topic somewhere where it would be allowed and PM some of us you think might be interested. Thats not very technical so I am sure things will work out. Happy New Year to you & your's!

 

[David Conklin]

>yet the sda is vehemtly trying to cover things up, saying that in most cases grape juice was meant instead of wine...

Where's the proof for the claims?

 

[JohnMarsten]

>yet the sda is vehemtly trying to cover things up, saying that in most cases grape juice was meant instead of wine...

Where's the proof for the claims?

David...

Please, use your head...

Are you gonna tell me that the SDA isnt proclaiming that grape juice thing...

Sometimes I get the impression that you dont take these topics seriously, and just throw in some stuff for the sake of throwing in stuff....

 

[ricker]

David...

Please, use your head...

Are you gonna tell me that the SDA isnt proclaiming that grape juice thing...

Sometimes I get the impression that you dont take these topics seriously, and just throw in some stuff for the sake of throwing in stuff....

I was raised Adventist and was taught wine could mean grape juice or an alcoholic beverage, the correct interpretation in each case seemed to be the one that promoted abstinence.

To be fair some other denominations hold to basically the same view of this subject as Adventism.

 

[JDMiowa]

Why did Jesus make wine for a wedding ?To get everybody drunk and happy ? Or was it to show his disciples he can change the water they poured it a jar made of bones and manure and make this earthy water into heavenly wine. Therefor proving he is the true vine sent from God, and to prepare them for his wedding in heaven.

 

[David Conklin]

I was raised Adventist and was taught wine could mean grape juice or an alcoholic beverage, the correct interpretation in each case seemed to be the one that promoted abstinence.

To be fair some other denominations hold to basically the same view of this subject as Adventism.

Same here.

Tough getting proof for wild claims that are thrown out, tho'.

 

[alandelillo]

Are you an SDA? I will give you 10 irrifutable examples (or go to my FREE) Scribd account (Alan DeLillo) and read a paper I wrote entitled "Are Seventh-day Adventist really Bible and Bible only"

Do you have your name signed on as a member? Why does your church use her over 1155 times as a reference in your doctrinal book? My friend, SDAs do defend her heavily and more so than the Bible.

Go and read a new chapter seven (free) of "Ellen White the Semi-Arian Ellen White the Trinitarian. Just like the shut door doctrine and how SDAs lied about what she was teaching with vision, Ellen White confirmed with vision the anti-Trinitarian doctrine in the earlier SDA church and then reversed and contradicted herself later on. This makes her a false prophet. Listen, if you did read my work then mayby I did not make it clear. Anybody can change their mind, but not when they claim the message if from God. Read it again please.

 

[alandelillo]

Wow, she claimed to be a prophet and more than a Prophet. My friend. Read a free chapter on Scrbd I wrote (under author Alan DeLillo) entitled "Ellen White the Semi-Arian Ellen White the Trinitarian" and it will refute everything you just said.

She confirmed with vision the anti-Trinitarian doctrine and then began teaching the "Godhead" doctrine which is another term for Trinity among Protestants. Look, if you will read the document I just rewrote above it will answer everything. It is 99 pages in legnth....I have done my homework and I intend on editing it and having it published. Thanks

 

[JohnMarsten]

Are you an SDA? I will give you 10 irrifutable examples (or go to my FREE) Scribd account (Alan DeLillo) and read a paper I wrote entitled "Are Seventh-day Adventist really Bible and Bible only"

Do you have your name signed on as a member? Why does your church use her over 1155 times as a reference in your doctrinal book? My friend, SDAs do defend her heavily and more so than the Bible.

Go and read a new chapter seven (free) of "Ellen White the Semi-Arian Ellen White the Trinitarian. Just like the shut door doctrine and how SDAs lied about what she was teaching with vision, Ellen White confirmed with vision the anti-Trinitarian doctrine in the earlier SDA church and then reversed and contradicted herself later on. This makes her a false prophet. Listen, if you did read my work then mayby I did not make it clear. Anybody can change their mind, but not when they claim the message if from God. Read it again please.

Believe me, for every accusation there is a rebuttal.. - even if its not that convincing it will be sufficient for the die hard followers of egw

and if there is none, I heard somebody say it's God's stumling block for the unbelievers. No arguments can really help here, only God can make people question the things they are taught to believe.

 

[alandelillo]

Great point, that's the way it was for me...until I was willing to question things for myself I could not see anything. I think that is kind of what you are saying?

 

[JohnMarsten]

Great point, that's the way it was for me...until I was willing to question things for myself I could not see anything. I think that is kind of what you are saying?

Let me put it this way, shortly before my baptism into the sda and straight afterwards I realized some disturbing things. The doctrinal first thing was the use of alcohol, or rather not using it (and no I am no alcoholic). It wasnt maybe even the lack of having an occasional drink or something but rather its given explanation that was so unconvincing. I just couldnt imagine myself telling people that Jesus turned water into grape juice or that alcohol was a sin when the clear word of the bible said otherwise. Paul even advocates it as a remedy - could Paul be wrong on that matter?

Of course it took a couple of years for me to figure things out. It was a slow process.

Along the way I realized that people are divided over the egw. I witnessed a lot of verbal fights on her matter. It seemed to me as if some people evaluated others based on their belief in egw writings and how they incorporated it into their lifes.

If there was a discussion on bible subject her opinion mattered most and people generally felt most secure when they stuck to her opinion.

I am a free-thinker and I just couldnt do it any longer.

Nowadays, when I occasionally speak to adventists I realize how brainwashed some people are, and thats sad. A couple of weeks ago I was picking up my mother from church and there was a potluck going on and she wanted to stay a little bit longer. So I had a short discussion with a pastor about abortion in sda hospitals. Now he told me that the church is against abortion and that it is not practiced in sda hospitals, I told him that I had some documents about it, he just smiled and told me that it would be some devils work and he neednt have a look at them as he was perfectly aware of the church's stance on it and that it is not practiced.

Of course the guy (a pastor) was pretty brainwashed on that matter but he was very confident in it. Or maybe he was just plain lying cause there was another guy standing next to us who wasnt yet baptized and he might have not wanted to disturb him, I guess I will never know.

 

[alandelillo]

Wow! Can I relate to everything you just said John. When I put Ellen White down and actually read the Bible all the way through for the first time in my life, I could not believe how drinking was actually allowed! For instance, you don't hear any SDAs tell about what Moses said to the people:

Deu_14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

Imagine that! Instead of teaching temperance they teach abstinence which not Biblical at all. I could go on how I thought Jesus never ate meat etc (also from her I am sure)

But the hardest thing to deal with having been under the Ellen White rules is how myself, my wife, my mother, and I see it also in my wife's family. How NONE OF US EVER FEEL GOOD ENOUGH AS CHRISTIANS. I believe it is all due to her expression "not one spot, not one stain can be on our characters". I don't know if I or my wife can ever feel good enough as Christians.

Do you mind if I ask, did you grow up SDA?